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  1. #1
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Default Character with highest Haggle

    Not that I would roll such an abdomination, but which character would be the best choice for a maximal value of Haggle?

    I know, pure bards a good for this, due to the Capstone's +2 Cha, but what about a Rogue's skill mastery?

    Wouldn't a 19 Rogue/1 bard, with four skill mastery feats and possibly the PL:SoS feat be a better choice for that, at least on paper?
    Going Rogue also allows taking the Skill Boost enhancement without being a Human. For GH you'll need a clickie then, of course.

    Note: Usually a pure Spellsinger with Haggle trained and a few enhancements for this will do just fine, while providing an essential contribution to any party.

    Edit: To clarify: I am interesting in the highest haggle values amongst different builds, i.e. GH, +2 luck, GS cha skill item and maxed cha is assumed for any build discussed here.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 05-04-2011 at 10:17 AM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Asketes's Avatar
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    go human or half-elf bard

    highest haggle in the game

    human adaptability, bard lvl 1 spell that gives stacking +1 to all skills, haggle enhancements, cha focused and cha enhancements
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  3. #3

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    Without going to extremes my lvl 18 spellsinger can hit over 70 haggle self/ship buffed.

    Human pure bard with full ranks of haggle from skills, enhancements, human versatility, spells (gh & focusing chant), boosts to cha skills from greensteel item. There are also a 2 feats that can be taken as well.

    There are ways of getting it higher by drinking the stacking stat potions from collectible turn-ins in House D.

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  4. #4
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asketes View Post
    go human or half-elf bard

    highest haggle in the game

    human adaptability, bard lvl 1 spell that gives stacking +1 to all skills, haggle enhancements, cha focused and cha enhancements
    Haggle is a Rogue class skill, so they get the haggle enhancements, too.
    Rogues get Skill Boost IV, which is as good as hvIV.
    PL:SoS can be taken by any character.
    1 Level of Bard grants access to Focusing Chant, which is why a bard splash was considered, so we are even here, so far.

    Not going Human or HElf allows going Drow, providing at worst +1 Cha, compared to Human or HElf, so possibly +1 haggle for the rogue.

    Pure Bard provides +5 Charisma (3 Enh + 2 Capstone), which translates to +3 haggle, at best.

    4 Skill mastery feats provide +4 Haggle.



    I'm not saying it's worth it, but it looks to me that 19/1 rogues can beat pure bards' haggle values by 1 or 2.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 05-04-2011 at 10:18 AM.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Valindria's Avatar
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    It's a really bad acrobat with huge haggle:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    wothless McHagglestein
    Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
    (19 Rogue \ 1 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 266
    Spell Points: 130 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            10                    17
    Constitution         12                    14
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             20                    27
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               0                    13
    Bluff                 5                    12
    Concentration         1                     6
    Diplomacy             5                    14
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                9                    44
    Heal                 -1                     3
    Hide                  0                     7
    Intimidate            5                    12
    Jump                  2                    11
    Listen               -1                     5
    Move Silently         0                     7
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                  n/a
    Repair                0                     4
    Search                0                     6
    Spot                 -1                     5
    Swim                  2                     7
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                  n/a
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Haggle
    Spell (1): Focusing Chant
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Negotiator
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
    Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Improved Balance I
    Enhancement: Improved Balance II
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle II
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle III
    Enhancement: Improved Haggle IV
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    44 Haggle
    1 Focus Chant
    3 +6 CHA Item
    2 +3 Exc CHA
    5 Skill Boost
    4 GH Clicky (or umd scroll)
    6 GS Skills
    2 Good Luck (HOGF)
    15 Haggle Item
    ---------------
    82 With higher possible due to other buffs and stuff.


    I threw it together very fast. Obviously things could be changed. Rogue at level 1 for skill points. Put skill points into other skills, adjust feats, etc.
    Last edited by Valindria; 05-04-2011 at 10:34 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member insaneuou's Avatar
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    Haggle + Bonus
    23 ranks
    22 55 charisma
    15 haggle item
    3 feat:sf haggle
    2 feat: negotiator
    4 haggle IV action points
    2 head good fortune
    6 GS non-weapon item
    77 Haggle score

    4 greater heroism
    1 focus chant spell
    5 human versatile IV
    2 fellow bard song
    2 monk buff
    4 lrg guild augment
    3 house D potion skills
    5 guild ship buff
    1 marketplace bonus
    1 past life feat rogue
    1 past life feat bard
    2 completionist
    31 Haggle Score II

    108 total haggle score

    Charisma totals
    23 lvl 20 human bard
    3 action points
    4 tome
    2 guild ship buff
    7 7+ item
    3 3+ exc item
    1 human adapt
    3 house D pot
    2 Yugo Pot
    1 litany of dead
    2 completionist
    2 store pot
    2 Bard Capstone
    55 (54) Charisma totals


    credits to saehj elorz for the above


    Sainikudu lvl20 monk(2nd life) Drsainikudu lvl2 fvs (3rd life) Mittu lvl12/2 wiz/rogue (2nd life) sainz lvl14 AA Shakthi lvl11/1/1 rgr/mnk/rog soccerer lvl5 sorc.

  7. #7
    Community Member Asketes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Haggle is a Rogue class skill, so they get the haggle enhancements, too.
    Rogues get Skill Boost IV, which is as good as hvIV.
    PL:SoS can be taken by any character.
    1 Level of Bard grants access to Focusing Chant, which is why a bard splash was considered, so we are even here, so far.

    Not going Human or HElf allows going Drow, providing at worst +1 Cha, compared to Human or HElf, so possibly +1 haggle for the rogue.

    Pure Bard provides +5 Charisma (3 Enh + 2 Capstone), which translates to +3 haggle, at best.

    4 Skill mastery feats provide +4 Haggle.



    I'm not saying it's worth it, but it looks to me that 19/1 rogues can beat pure bards' haggle values by 1 or 2.
    bard still gets cha enhancements


    If you want traps and to run a lazy and such go 18 bard 2 rogue. I don't do any damage with mine, he's my piker toon. I can do epic traps, throw heal scrolls and sing/buff. Super high haggle if I wanted to take the stuff for it.
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Thanks for the breakdown, but this was totally not the aim of my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by insaneuou View Post
    22 55 charisma
    Charisma totals
    23 lvl 20 human bard
    3 action points
    1 human adapt
    2 Bard Capstone
    25 lvl drow rogue is a difference of -4 in cha score. This translates to -2 haggle.

    2 Skill mastery feats compensate, 4 skill mastery feats excess this by 2.

    So it should be 110, not 108 as a maximal value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asketes View Post
    bard still gets cha enhancements
    The part quoted by you does take this into account. Or am I missing another bonus granted by the bard levels?
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 05-04-2011 at 10:31 AM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Soul-Shaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    25 lvl drow rogue is a difference of -4 in cha score. This translates to -2 haggle.

    2 Skill mastery feats compensate, 4 skill mastery feats excess this by 2.
    But if your drow -5 human versatility so 4 skill mastery feats is -3.

    So it should be 110, not 108 as a maximal value.
    So your 19/1 drow rog would be 103 max out of the highest attainable 108
    Also I max cha rog would be more then likely be really gimp ;p
    Last edited by Soul-Shaker; 05-04-2011 at 11:53 AM. Reason: typos
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul-Shaker View Post
    snip
    Rogue skill boost = human versatility...

    gimpness asside. karl_koch is right from what I can see...

  11. #11
    Community Member Winter_storm's Avatar
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    there was a build called the Mississippi queen that was a good haggle bard.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168293

    rogue well..... you can try

  12. #12
    Community Member Soul-Shaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinar View Post
    Rogue skill boost = human versatility...

    gimpness asside. karl_koch is right from what I can see...
    oh yeah, your right. forgot about that.
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  13. #13
    Founder dakkon75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul-Shaker View Post
    But if your drow -5 human versatility so 4 skill mastery feats is -3.
    I hate to have to break it to you Soul but Rogue skill focus does the same to skills as human versatility.

    But on the other hand yes you can do it with a rogue/bard but this character wouldn't be viable at all in play, whereas the hagglebard is.


    edit: dang someone beat me to it.
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