Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 61
  1. #1
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,765

    Default Simple list of fixes for pvp, most of which that do not touch pve.

    This has been posted in another thread, but deserves a thread on its own for some discussion.

    I believe it's fairly simple to make pvp work well. It requires disabling of some of the overpowered spells and abilities in public areas. Mind you that this has been done for spells as for example firewall and bladebarrier already. This means that codewise it is a trivial task, as the functionality for disabling spells and abilities is already there. Most of the changes I propose hence do not affect PvE (except for, as someone pointed out, in the public instances for Mabar and Crystal cove).


    Non-pve affecting changes
    Below I wrote down a list of abilities that should be disabled for sure, together with a small motivation between brackers. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

    -(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg are by no means fair)
    -Meteor swarm (the spell does too much damage, and can't be dodged properly because pvp areas are too small)
    -Imbue slaying arrow (500 dmg attacks from range that are hard to dodge? It spoils pvp. Manyshot is a strong enough ability for rangers to be viable in pvp.)
    -The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
    -Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are not that great for the fun factor of pvp)
    -Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of almost irresistable dancing takes the cake)

    I might have forgotten some spells that are somewhat overpowered in pvp, but this should cover most of it.


    Pve affecting changes
    Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve are the following:

    -Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage. (600 damage lightning strikes and 450 disintegrates are not exactly my idea of fun)
    -Reduce the number of charges on a pale lavender ioun stone to 25. (As the ioun stone is a bit overpowered, and some of my changes reduce the ability of casters to empty an ioun stone, the charges of the ioun stone should be reduced)


    As I stated, most of these changes are quite simple and do not affect pve. They help to balance pvp, without hurting anyone else. What I would like to see in the discussion is critique on the proposed changes. I'm interested as well in other potential fixes. Keep in mind that your fixes for pvp should not influence pve play. What I DON'T want to see is remarks such as "pvp shouldn't be part of DDO", as it's really not the point of this thread.
    Last edited by Forzah; 04-29-2011 at 04:53 AM.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Aurora1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,616

    Default

    I think turbine should set up a focus group. Find out what seems to be a general agreement on playstyle in PvP then employ X number of programmers.

    Dont use existing staff, hire more. Give the the basic code for DDO and allow them to change it to suit the PvP pit. Have that code come on when you walk in the door, the rest of the game uses the PvE code.

    Then make PvP a DDO store item to cover the cost of the new programming team.

    Allow 1 PvP pit to remain open to all players under PvE rules so that the general populace can test etc but only people that pay for the PvP pass can play PvP rules.

    As far as i can see everyone gets what they want.

    Non PvPers dont lose dev time being spent on new stuff.

    PvPers get the rule set they want.

    Turbine get more money and employ a couple of new programmers.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanvar View Post
    I believe my left thumb is Gimp. I think I need to reroll.
    DDO Acronyms: http://ddowiki.com/page/Glossary
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...78#post2326178

  3. #3
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora1979 View Post
    I think turbine should set up a focus group. Find out what seems to be a general agreement on playstyle in PvP then employ X number of programmers.

    Dont use existing staff, hire more. Give the the basic code for DDO and allow them to change it to suit the PvP pit. Have that code come on when you walk in the door, the rest of the game uses the PvE code.

    Then make PvP a DDO store item to cover the cost of the new programming team.

    Allow 1 PvP pit to remain open to all players under PvE rules so that the general populace can test etc but only people that pay for the PvP pass can play PvP rules.

    As far as i can see everyone gets what they want.

    Non PvPers dont lose dev time being spent on new stuff.

    PvPers get the rule set they want.

    Turbine get more money and employ a couple of new programmers.
    That is a suitable solution, but it certainly requires a lot of resources on Turbine's behalf. I doubt they are willing to hire extra people just for the small player-base that plays pvp. As idea, I rate it highly, but in terms of feasibility the probability of your idea happening is close to zero.

  4. #4
    Community Member heyytoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wayward Lobster PvP
    Posts
    506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    This has been posted in another thread, but deserves a thread on its own for some discussion.

    I believe it's fairly simple to make pvp work well. It requires disabling of some of the overpowered spells and abilities in public areas. Mind you that this has been done for spells as for example firewall and bladebarrier already. This means that codewise it is a trivial task, as the functionality for disabling spells and abilities is already there. Most of the changes I propose hence do not affect PvE (except for, as someone pointed out, in the public instances for Mabar and Crystal cove).


    Non-pve affecting changes
    Below I wrote down a list of abilities that should be disabled for sure, together with a small motivation between brackers. The following spells/abilities should be disabled in public/brawling areas:

    -(Past life) magic missile (auto aim spells that do 200-300 dmg are by no means fair)
    -Meteor swarm (the spell does too much damage, and can't be dodged properly because pvp areas are too small)
    -Imbue slaying arrow (500 dmg attacks from range that are hard to dodge? It spoils pvp. Manyshot is a strong enough ability for rangers to be viable in pvp.)
    -The new cleric spell (100 dmg a tick that can't be mitigated and dodged is a bit too much)
    -Any insta-kill ability (vorpals, fod, implosion are not that great for the fun factor of pvp)
    -Song of capering (bards still get to fascinate, but 1 minute of almost irresistable dancing takes the cake)

    I might have forgotten some spells that are somewhat overpowered in pvp, but this should cover most of it.


    Pve affecting changes
    Some other suggestions that should make pvp more balanced, but that will affect pve are the following:

    -Guards should do half damage on a save, or have increased procrate but lower damage. (600 damage lightning strikes and 450 disintegrates are not exactly my idea of fun)
    -Reduce the number of charges on a pale lavender ioun stone to 25. (As the ioun stone is a bit overpowered, and some of my changes reduce the ability of casters to empty an ioun stone, the charges of the ioun stone should be reduced)


    As I stated, most of these changes are quite simple and do not affect pve. They help to balance pvp, without hurting anyone else. What I would like to see in the discussion is critique on the proposed changes. I'm interested as well in other potential fixes. Keep in mind that your fixes for pvp should not influence pve play. What I DON'T want to see is remarks such as "pvp shouldn't be part of DDO", as it's really not the point of this thread.

    Good suggestions

    But your kinda overdoing it

    I never had problem dealing with MM past life/ meteor swarm/ slaying arrows/ lightning strike/ disintegration...

    The new U9 spells (divine punishment and the arcane version of that spell) must be blocked on pvp. Its just silly now. PvP was fun because you had to be skilled and ready for all situation, with those spell you dont even have to move, you stand still and kill your enemy and than you die because he casted the same thing on you...boring

    Song of capering is anoying and kinda bugged since bard can use it tru walls.

    Anyway, its easy to make pvp fun again without touching pve.. Now it just feels like mod 3 pvp were all you had to do is spam chain lightning..

    Bah

    PvP is less awesome..
    >P E S T I L E N C E<
    >T H E L A N I S<

    MADE - NITROUS - PSYCOTIK - MAYAJI - BLINDFOLD - RAGNAROKS - UUBER - EPICFARMING - HEYY

  5. #5

    Default

    The sad thing about PvP in this game is that there is SO much potential yet realized. As I was reffing the event set up by Purgatory, I was intrigued and interested. To date, I have been against PvP, and yet I could see and hear that you guys were having fun.

    PvP could be better developed and be a marketing point.

    The challenge system could be greatly improved upon.

    They could incorporate PvPvE, where 2 teams try to reach a quest objective in opposition to each other. Imagine Inferno where mobs you kill on one side appear on the other. Now, what if you and your friends were in a similar quest where mobs you killed on your side appeared on the other, traps you disabled appeared on the other... etc. Might add a new wrinkle to quests and liven things up.

    What if you could play the opposition in a quest, like Gladewatch Outpost. You are defending a stronghold from attackers who are an opposing team.

    What if you could enter the Stash, your team vs a friends team and then mobs start dropping in... wave after wave. The winner is the team with the most kills.

    What if all public areas were set up to enable PvP via a check box in the UI. Such characters, so flagged, can be attacked at any given moment, only by another character so flagged. The fight could continue from one house to another.

    Lots of potential to improve PvP. It could be, or have an aspect, that could appeal to a great majority of the game.
    Khyber
    R e v e n a n t s Renowned
    Thelanis

  6. #6
    Community Member Ttip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    The sad thing about PvP in this game is that there is SO much potential yet realized. As I was reffing the event set up by Purgatory, I was intrigued and interested. To date, I have been against PvP, and yet I could see and hear that you guys were having fun.

    PvP could be better developed and be a marketing point.

    The challenge system could be greatly improved upon.

    They could incorporate PvPvE, where 2 teams try to reach a quest objective in opposition to each other. Imagine Inferno where mobs you kill on one side appear on the other. Now, what if you and your friends were in a similar quest where mobs you killed on your side appeared on the other, traps you disabled appeared on the other... etc. Might add a new wrinkle to quests and liven things up.

    What if you could play the opposition in a quest, like Gladewatch Outpost. You are defending a stronghold from attackers who are an opposing team.

    What if you could enter the Stash, your team vs a friends team and then mobs start dropping in... wave after wave. The winner is the team with the most kills.

    What if all public areas were set up to enable PvP via a check box in the UI. Such characters, so flagged, can be attacked at any given moment, only by another character so flagged. The fight could continue from one house to another.

    Lots of potential to improve PvP. It could be, or have an aspect, that could appeal to a great majority of the game.
    WOW!!! I picture Chronoscope with two 12 person raid groups fighting each other and the mobs to get to completion first...including all optionals and kill counts...losing team gets only half xp.

  7. #7
    Community Member Shanadeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    207

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    The sad thing about PvP in this game is that there is SO much potential yet realized. As I was reffing the event set up by Purgatory, I was intrigued and interested. To date, I have been against PvP, and yet I could see and hear that you guys were having fun.

    PvP could be better developed and be a marketing point.

    The challenge system could be greatly improved upon.

    They could incorporate PvPvE, where 2 teams try to reach a quest objective in opposition to each other. Imagine Inferno where mobs you kill on one side appear on the other. Now, what if you and your friends were in a similar quest where mobs you killed on your side appeared on the other, traps you disabled appeared on the other... etc. Might add a new wrinkle to quests and liven things up.

    What if you could play the opposition in a quest, like Gladewatch Outpost. You are defending a stronghold from attackers who are an opposing team.

    What if you could enter the Stash, your team vs a friends team and then mobs start dropping in... wave after wave. The winner is the team with the most kills.

    What if all public areas were set up to enable PvP via a check box in the UI. Such characters, so flagged, can be attacked at any given moment, only by another character so flagged. The fight could continue from one house to another.

    Lots of potential to improve PvP. It could be, or have an aspect, that could appeal to a great majority of the game.
    Now that's what I'm talking about!
    What you said about the Gladewatch Outpost kinda reminds me of Monster Play in LOTRO.

  8. #8
    Community Member Soulken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    In the woods killing Bambi and his mom
    Posts
    295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    The sad thing about PvP in this game is that there is SO much potential yet realized. As I was reffing the event set up by Purgatory, I was intrigued and interested. To date, I have been against PvP, and yet I could see and hear that you guys were having fun.

    PvP could be better developed and be a marketing point.

    The challenge system could be greatly improved upon.

    They could incorporate PvPvE, where 2 teams try to reach a quest objective in opposition to each other. Imagine Inferno where mobs you kill on one side appear on the other. Now, what if you and your friends were in a similar quest where mobs you killed on your side appeared on the other, traps you disabled appeared on the other... etc. Might add a new wrinkle to quests and liven things up.

    What if you could play the opposition in a quest, like Gladewatch Outpost. You are defending a stronghold from attackers who are an opposing team.

    What if you could enter the Stash, your team vs a friends team and then mobs start dropping in... wave after wave. The winner is the team with the most kills.

    What if all public areas were set up to enable PvP via a check box in the UI. Such characters, so flagged, can be attacked at any given moment, only by another character so flagged. The fight could continue from one house to another.

    Lots of potential to improve PvP. It could be, or have an aspect, that could appeal to a great majority of the game.
    Your idea would make it appeal to more but I doubt if it woiuld be a majority I wouild still have zero interst as would many others again my problem is that it would take dev time away from making stuff for the true majority.

    When I duel someone I like to dual wield. with my rouge wearing rogue.

  9. #9
    Founder & Hero
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moosehead Lake
    Posts
    23,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    The sad thing about PvP in this game is that there is SO much potential yet realized. As I was reffing the event set up by Purgatory, I was intrigued and interested. To date, I have been against PvP, and yet I could see and hear that you guys were having fun.

    PvP could be better developed and be a marketing point.

    The challenge system could be greatly improved upon.

    They could incorporate PvPvE, where 2 teams try to reach a quest objective in opposition to each other. Imagine Inferno where mobs you kill on one side appear on the other. Now, what if you and your friends were in a similar quest where mobs you killed on your side appeared on the other, traps you disabled appeared on the other... etc. Might add a new wrinkle to quests and liven things up.

    What if you could play the opposition in a quest, like Gladewatch Outpost. You are defending a stronghold from attackers who are an opposing team.

    What if you could enter the Stash, your team vs a friends team and then mobs start dropping in... wave after wave. The winner is the team with the most kills.

    What if all public areas were set up to enable PvP via a check box in the UI. Such characters, so flagged, can be attacked at any given moment, only by another character so flagged. The fight could continue from one house to another.

    Lots of potential to improve PvP. It could be, or have an aspect, that could appeal to a great majority of the game.
    No thanks I will always oppose dev time spent on something I feel will benifit less than the majority but your ideas as the above poster says would increase interst for some just not all

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  10. #10
    The Hatchery Aurora1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,616

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    That is a suitable solution, but it certainly requires a lot of resources on Turbine's behalf. I doubt they are willing to hire extra people just for the small player-base that plays pvp. As idea, I rate it highly, but in terms of feasibility the probability of your idea happening is close to zero.
    to be honest with you, that was kind of my point. if PvP players want PvP rules then they can cover the costs. That way the people who pay to play the game for its PvE enviroment wont feel like their resources are being used elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanvar View Post
    I believe my left thumb is Gimp. I think I need to reroll.
    DDO Acronyms: http://ddowiki.com/page/Glossary
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...78#post2326178

  11. #11
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    3,688

    Default

    I always thought the idea of a different set of "rules" for different brawling pits would be cool.

    Tavern 1 - No Holds Barred. anything goes.
    Tavern 2 - Back to Basics. All enhancements supressed, no named items, no crafted items.
    Tavern 3 - Melee Rumble. No spellcasting allowed.
    Tavern 4 - God Mode. Anything goes, no player can die. perhaps a counter that tracks your hypothetical kills and deaths for fun.
    Tavern 5 - Lowbie Only. Max level 8
    Tavern 6 - Mid Level Only. Level range 9 - 16

    You get the idea. People will hang out in the brawling area that suits their particular taste in fighting.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  12. #12
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sandy, UT
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    I always thought the idea of a different set of "rules" for different brawling pits would be cool.

    Tavern 1 - No Holds Barred. anything goes.
    Tavern 2 - Back to Basics. All enhancements supressed, no named items, no crafted items.
    Tavern 3 - Melee Rumble. No spellcasting allowed.
    Tavern 4 - God Mode. Anything goes, no player can die. perhaps a counter that tracks your hypothetical kills and deaths for fun.
    Tavern 5 - Lowbie Only. Max level 8
    Tavern 6 - Mid Level Only. Level range 9 - 16

    You get the idea. People will hang out in the brawling area that suits their particular taste in fighting.
    I kind of like that idea. Another game I used to play, knight online, had a PvP room set up like that. you zoned in and there were a whole bunch of rooms you could step into. each room had limitations that varied, some allowed only melee, some allowed no melee attacks, some were level restricted, ect...

    interesting.
    Proud member of Renowned, Thelanis server.

  13. #13
    Community Member ProdigalGuru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,476

    Default

    I would support Dev time being spent on PvP, IF all PvP was moved to private instances.

    These instances are already in place, have less restrictions, a variety of environments, and get used not at all.

    Meanwhile, I have to shut off my volume when entering a lowbie tavern so that I am not hearing constant spell spam.

    Public area PvP detracts from my PvE gaming experience and should be removed.
    Tip# 203: Death is a traumatic experience.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    No thanks I will always oppose dev time spent on something I feel will benifit less than the majority but your ideas as the above poster says would increase interst for some just not all
    I used to feel the same way... till I helped out a buddy and refed a 4v4 PvP tournament. All participants gushed about how much they enjoyed it, how challenging it was and, the winning team was not the server's best PvPers... rather a pug group that worked out and practiced winning strategies for different situations together. They displayed incredible teamwork.

    How often do you feel that the mobs behave inanely? What if mobs were controlled by a thinking human rather than an inherently limited AI?

    Open your mind up a little and stop thinking of it as PvP like you have encountered in the taverns or in other MMOs. There is a whole untapped aspect to the game that could vitalize play for many.

    Think of how the strategy for quests would change if there was a active intelligence adapting to the tactics you employ... fun!
    Khyber
    R e v e n a n t s Renowned
    Thelanis

  15. #15
    Founder & Hero
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moosehead Lake
    Posts
    23,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    I used to feel the same way... till I helped out a buddy and refed a 4v4 PvP tournament. All participants gushed about how much they enjoyed it, how challenging it was and, the winning team was not the server's best PvPers... rather a pug group that worked out and practiced winning strategies for different situations together. They displayed incredible teamwork.

    How often do you feel that the mobs behave inanely? What if mobs were controlled by a thinking human rather than an inherently limited AI?

    Open your mind up a little and stop thinking of it as PvP like you have encountered in the taverns or in other MMOs. There is a whole untapped aspect to the game that could vitalize play for many.

    Think of how the strategy for quests would change if there was a active intelligence adapting to the tactics you employ... fun!
    I just dont feel dnd or ddo is a game for pvp and never will I am not against a game that is built with pvp in mind this just isnt it and yeah I use to love pvp in SWG before they broke that game and I am looking forward to it in Old Republic and once again 1 second wasted on pvp is one that could have been spent on time for the majority of players on pve

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  16. #16
    Founder & Hero
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moosehead Lake
    Posts
    23,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalGuru View Post
    I would support Dev time being spent on PvP, IF all PvP was moved to private instances.

    These instances are already in place, have less restrictions, a variety of environments, and get used not at all.

    Meanwhile, I have to shut off my volume when entering a lowbie tavern so that I am not hearing constant spell spam.

    Public area PvP detracts from my PvE gaming experience and should be removed.
    I say just leave it where it is and not spend anymore time on it I pretty much ignore the public taverns now that we have a ship

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  17. #17
    Community Member Mighty_Bozo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    58

    Default

    I simply love the Idea of a more active Intelligence behind the dungeons and quests, but for that to actually happen pvp should be rebalanced in a way that won't mess up pve in any way. I used to like Ragnarok gvg settings where the ranged and magic damage would be reduced by 50% in guild siege enviroments and melee would be reduced by 25%. I feel like this kind of difference between a pvp / pve system would benefit the game as a whole since we could have event dungeons or even whole quests based on pvp systematics, and by that i don't mean players killing each other, I mean players with opposing objectives as was pointed out in previous posts. Some of the success recipe in the gaming industry still is the friction that may grow between some players, and by that I say the good competitivity, not griefing as it used to have in UO or other games. One of the games I've enjoyed playing for such a long time was Defense of the ancients mod for warcraft the frozen throne, I've played it for 6 years, and it didn't used to have new stuff in it that often, it was just the same map over and over again, but the feeling that you're playing a live real time strategy game with the character you just build is priceless. I say let us have battlegrounds, and let them give us some rewards out of it, like XP or specific crafting materials, give us pvp equipment sets, well make it gvg, the guild that holds more points on some scoreboard gets bonus renown until the next siege time.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora1979 View Post
    Then make PvP a DDO store item to cover the cost of the new programming team.
    I am down for that.

    If they are going to spend time on it, it should pay for itself.

  19. #19
    Community Member Dispel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sarlona
    Posts
    726

    Default

    No thanks! But..

    Issue - Solution:

    Arcane Initiate - More HP, self-heals, Pale Lavender Ioun Stone.
    Meteor Swarm - More HP, Evasion, self-heals, Firestorm Greaves, GS Fire Absorption, Fire Shield (Cold).
    Slayer Arrows - More HP, high blocking DR, kiting skills, Power Word: Stun, Arcane Initiate.
    Divine Punishment - More HP, Break Enchantment, Pale Lavender Ioun Stone.
    Death Affects - Higher saves, Deathblock, Death Ward.
    Song of Capering - High Will save, Battered Phiarlan Shield.

    Lightning Strike does nothing with a Ring of the Djinn and high HP. If Disintegration Guard kills you, get out of PvP.

    Oh, and if they removed these you'd probably still die to alternative methods anyway.
    Last edited by Dispel; 06-01-2011 at 02:19 PM. Reason: I'm cool.

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Pale lavender ioun stones are extremely difficult to obtain. Against imbue slaying arrows... what about those that can't stun the archer? Also forgetting Ottos Irresistible dance as sorcs/wiz sneak attack others with in the cramped wayward lobster.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload