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  1. #1
    Community Member Shanadeus's Avatar
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    Default It seems that PVP isn't that prevalent in DDO

    Which is a shame, would be neat if the devs implemented new PvP modes and maps as well as implemented some sort of PVP-related point system (that only give PVP-relevant rewards).

    And all that without touching PVE!

  2. #2
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Sure, that would be nice. After they're done fixing everything that is still buggy, and done adding any extra quests/classes/races or content for the game all together. After all of that, then they might have time to concentrate a little on PvP.
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  3. #3
    Community Member toughguyjoe's Avatar
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    It would be pretty sweet. Of course the balance issues that are prevalent in PVP would have to be fixed, along with some abilities being changed..so yeah.

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  4. #4
    Community Member Shanadeus's Avatar
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    Don't they already do that though?
    Spells&abilities just work differently when in PVP-arenas (or not at all) or when cast at other players.
    If they stick to that then PVP-balancing won't affect PVE.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanadeus View Post
    Which is a shame, would be neat if the devs implemented new PvP modes and maps as well as implemented some sort of PVP-related point system (that only give PVP-relevant rewards).

    And all that without touching PVE!
    It would be neat in some ways, but it would also consume roughly triple the game design effort they already put in. Building a good complex PVP game is not easy; it is hard.

    If you happen to think that DDO's existing game mechanics could be fun in PVP, I encourage you to get some players together and give it a test run.

  6. #6
    Community Member ProdigalGuru's Avatar
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    How many times, in Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons did you PvP?

    Any answer greater than zero, and I call shenanigans.

    DnD is just not geared for PvP, so neither is DDO.


    Also, we have enough "balancing" issues already, the last thing we need is "PvP balance" issues.

    PvP is borderline griefing for the winner anyways.

    You have to be either sadistic or masochistic to enjoy it in the first place.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanadeus View Post
    And all that without touching PVE!
    That is the problem. While working on that, they would not be working on DDO.
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  8. #8
    Community Member heyytoi's Avatar
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    PvP is Awesome.
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  9. #9
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalGuru View Post
    How many times, in Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons did you PvP?

    Any answer greater than zero, and I call shenanigans.

    DnD is just not geared for PvP, so neither is DDO.


    Also, we have enough "balancing" issues already, the last thing we need is "PvP balance" issues.

    PvP is borderline griefing for the winner anyways.

    You have to be either sadistic or masochistic to enjoy it in the first place.
    You must have had pretty boring PnP then.

    What happens when the paladin catches the rogue stealing? What happens when the paladin catching anyone doing anything he doesn't like for that matter? Less so in 3rd ed but back in the day paladins were pretty prickly when it came to questing with those who had questionable morals and it could certainly lead to circumstances that might lead to harsh words if not outright combat.

    Same is true for many characters. If you role play properly there will always be disagreements and the threat of PvP is an important part of those disagreements (usually avoided though based on the surety that one party would be victorious).

    I certainly agree that DDO isn't balanced for the PvP that we see in other MMOs. Simply put, individual classes aren't balanced against eachother and the classes are designed to succeed in a PvE environment. However, that still provides opportunity if there was interest in it. Specifically, bring out a map reminiscent of DotA. The objective is very compatible with DDO; kill the mobs, kill the portal/base where the mobs come from while protecting a friendly base and help the mobs there. The fact that there are other players trying to help the opposing mobs and kill the mobs that are friendly to you just makes it exciting. Very little balancing would be required. Simply, fix stealth so that enemy players can't see you is the only global fix that would be necessary. Then, within the specific map, make buildings immune to piercing damage and any type of magic and you're done.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, I've certainly seen pen and paper PVP. In point of fact, we had one long running campaign with two parties (same dm, played by different players though), one "good" and one "evil" working at cross purposes. We weren't fighting each other directly most sessions, but it certainly did happen on occassion. Also had a campaign as an evil party where the "leader" was challenged to ritual combat by other party members who wanted to take control of the party on multiple occasions.

    That being said, while I have no objections to PVP in ddo per say, I do object to the devs taking time away from the PVE that most of us enjoy/focus on to try and build a larger PVP portion into a game it is not really designed for or focused on PVP in any meaningful way.

  11. #11
    Community Member Quarterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalGuru View Post
    How many times, in Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons did you PvP?

    Any answer greater than zero, and I call shenanigans.

    DnD is just not geared for PvP, so neither is DDO.
    I GM'ed a campaign in which the players had to fetch a king's prized jewel cup. As (un)luck to have it, one of the players died a bit earlier than I expected due to bad rolls and the cup was relocated by the villains. I was not sure where the cup should end up, so I made a quick random table and the dice told me that the jeweled cup was brought by the thieves into a small village on the outskirts of town.

    That village was one controlled by a noble fighter who loved duels. The thieves were imprisoned by an NPC paladin who used detect evil on them, and the jeweled cup was then put up as the prize for whoever won the next tournament. Since it's a noble town, the fights are non-lethal.

    Long story short, three of the players entered the tournament, and two of them made it to the final round. Of course, it would not matter who would win as either would receive the cup to complete the campaign, but it was fun watching some PvP there for a bit.
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  12. #12
    Community Member MsEricka's Avatar
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    Don't care, didn't read.

    DDO is not a PvP game, never has been, never will be. The only dev time spent in PvP should be removing it. People need to stop suggesting otherwise.

  13. #13
    Community Member uthanak69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shanadeus View Post
    Which is a shame, would be neat if the devs implemented new PvP modes and maps as well as implemented some sort of PVP-related point system (that only give PVP-relevant rewards).
    I disagree, I think PVP sucks. I'm glad it's not too good in DDO. Prevents it from becoming the center of the game.

  14. #14
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uthanak69 View Post
    I disagree, I think PVP sucks. I'm glad it's not too good in DDO. Prevents it from becoming the center of the game.
    have to disagree with ya.

    After playing this game for 5 years running now, after making half a dozen toons fully epiced out, after not seeing a new raid in over 6 months...I'm getting bored.

    and judging by the fall in how many people in my guild roster sign on a daily basis, i'm not the only one.

    I certainly agree that PVP should not be the center of attention in this game. but it is truly the biggest thing lacking that is available in most other MMOs at the moment. I'm not saying that we should change it so that DDO is like everyone else, but the cheesy way it is implemented now with a basic pit and spells not balanced versus other players (theres no reason why certain spells can't have different rulesets vs. players than PvE).

    I would bet something to do other than the same old constant grind / daily epics / same old raids would stirr up quite a bit more in-game activity.

    Even if that something to do was not necessarily PvP itself, mini-games of some kind that add some kind of reward value and are fun to do in general. The capture the flag mechanic at the moment could be implemented in a slightly better fashion. A new 'challenge' quest that divides parties into two sides and are rewarded for winning against the other team or something like that would be cool.

    maybe it's just the console gamer in me, since it's been years that i've touched a first person shooter, but PvP certainly has potential to better the game - even if it's not for every single player.

    edit: and TRing endlessly is not my idea of fun either. I've been doing that with my current toon and am getting bored of the extreme grind myself.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Shanadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    You must have had pretty boring PnP then.

    What happens when the paladin catches the rogue stealing? What happens when the paladin catching anyone doing anything he doesn't like for that matter? Less so in 3rd ed but back in the day paladins were pretty prickly when it came to questing with those who had questionable morals and it could certainly lead to circumstances that might lead to harsh words if not outright combat.

    Same is true for many characters. If you role play properly there will always be disagreements and the threat of PvP is an important part of those disagreements (usually avoided though based on the surety that one party would be victorious).

    I certainly agree that DDO isn't balanced for the PvP that we see in other MMOs. Simply put, individual classes aren't balanced against eachother and the classes are designed to succeed in a PvE environment. However, that still provides opportunity if there was interest in it. Specifically, bring out a map reminiscent of DotA. The objective is very compatible with DDO; kill the mobs, kill the portal/base where the mobs come from while protecting a friendly base and help the mobs there. The fact that there are other players trying to help the opposing mobs and kill the mobs that are friendly to you just makes it exciting. Very little balancing would be required. Simply, fix stealth so that enemy players can't see you is the only global fix that would be necessary. Then, within the specific map, make buildings immune to piercing damage and any type of magic and you're done.
    That sounds pretty fun.
    And they already have all the necessary models and whatnot in the game.

    DOTA in 3D in DDO sounds very exciting.

  16. #16
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalGuru View Post
    How many times, in Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons did you PvP?

    Any answer greater than zero, and I call shenanigans.
    And yet another person who seeks to speak for all pnp experiences...

    Then call shenanigans on me. I've had plenty of campaings (as a player and as a DM) where players have fought each other...heck it's not even that uncommon due to mind influencing spells and abilities.
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  17. #17
    Community Member somenewnoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    And yet another person who seeks to speak for all pnp experiences...

    Then call shenanigans on me. I've had plenty of campaings (as a player and as a DM) where players have fought each other...heck it's not even that uncommon due to mind influencing spells and abilities.
    Yep, as DM I used to have players fight each other from time to time too. But then again I was a sort of an evil DM and liked to try to push them to betray each other from time to time! lol

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalGuru View Post
    How many times, in Pen and Paper Dungeons and Dragons did you PvP?

    Any answer greater than zero, and I call shenanigans.

    DnD is just not geared for PvP, so neither is DDO.
    Well, there are the times when a character gets Dominated or mind controled. Also, there are the occasional misunderstandings. But it has never been the main focus of the game.

    I don't really think any dev time should be put towards PvP at all.

  19. #19
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    No rewards for pvp and no dev time until everything else is done

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  20. #20
    Community Member SynalonEtuul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsEricka View Post
    Don't care, didn't read.

    DDO is not a PvP game, never has been, never will be. The only dev time spent in PvP should be removing it. People need to stop suggesting otherwise.
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