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  1. #41
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    Someone said Gadgeteer. Is that like Inspector Gadget in platemail?
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    CELESTERAFvS 20 FEYNASorc 17 CUDGERogue 17

  2. #42
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joneb1999 View Post
    Someone said Gadgeteer. Is that like Inspector Gadget in platemail?
    lol no i'd show you the original class but WoTC has purged almost all easily obtained Legal 3.5 material from the net that's linkable

    This the closest fan made version I've found..not exactly the same but it gives a general idea and it fits into ebberon perfectly with the magitech style.

    http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Gadgeteer

    I actually recently got back into DnD and was playing both a 3.5e and a 4e game mostly to choose which edition I wanted to go with but thats another story...the point is I actually rolled up a gadgeteer and he worked out pretty cool.



    Skezid (LvL 9)

    Code:
    Male Tinker Gnome Gadgeteer
    Chaotic Neutral
    Representing Failedlegend
    
    Strength  12	(+1)
    Dexterity 16	(+3)
    Constitution  16	(+3) (lvl 8 stat)
    Intelligence  20	(+5) (lvl 4 stat)
    Wisdom  10	(+0)
    Charisma  8	(-1) 
    	
    
    Size: Small 
    Height: 3' 5"
    Weight:  40 lbs.
    Skin: Tanned 
    Eyes: Red
    Hair: Grey
    
    Total Hit Points: 68
    
    Speed:  20ft (30ft in Suit aka Armor)
    
    Armor Class: 22 = 10 +3 [Dexterity]+1[Size Bonus]+6[Suit]+2{Deflection}
    
        Touch AC: 22
        Flat-footed:  ??
    
    Initiative modifier:	+3
    Fortitude save:	+7	
    Reflex save:	+7	
    Will save:	+7	
    Attack (Buster): 15 = 6(BAB)+3(Dex)+1(Size)+1(WF)+1(PBS)+3(weapon)
    	
    Languages:	Common, Gnome,Goblin, Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Zedian
    
    Proficiences: Club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, quarterstaff, spear,Gnomish Hooked Hammer and busters
    
    Feats:
    
    Normal
    IC: Buster (Doubles Buster Crit Range)
    Point Blank Shot (+1 attack/damage when within 30ft)
    Precise Shot (No penalty to shooting engaged enemies)
    Craft Magic Arms and Armor
    
    Class
    Wild Talent (Be Psionic :P)
    Precision:Buster (Gain Weapon Focus & Weapon Spec: Buster...+1 Attack/+2 Damage)
    Tinkerer (Gain Precision:Construct)
    Aura of Defense: (Constructs gain a +1 bonus to their natural armor for every 3 levels of the Gadgeteer)
    Construct Expertise (Gain a second Aura)
    Aura of Striking: (Constructs gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls for every 2 levels of the Gadgeteer)
    Only the Essentials (All inventions weigh 3/4 their Listed weight)
    
    Skills	
    
    Appraise (Int)  17 
    Concentration (Con) 15
    Search (Int) 17
    Psicraft (Int) 17
    Knowledge(Architecture and engineering) (Int) 17
    Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int) 17
    Craft(Mechanical) (Int) 17
    Craft(Alchemy) (Int) 19
    
    Race Stuff:  
    Note: Anything Already incorporated into above stats removed)
    +4 size bonus on Hide checks, 3/4 Carrying Capacity
    Low-Light Vision
    +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
    +1 Saves vs. Illusion
    +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids.
    +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. 
    +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
    

    Daily Use Meta Innovations

    Ziggy (My construct)




    Code:
    860 Lbs. Medium Construct
    HP 54 (4HD)
    Speed 60 ft. (12 squares)
    Initiative +0
    Armor Class 21 (+11 natural); touch 10; flat-footed 18
    Attack Slam +10 (2d8+5)
    Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
    Special Attacks - Trample: As a standard action during its turn each round, the construct can literally run over an opponent at least one size category smaller than itself. The trample deals 1d10 points of bludgeoning damage. Trampled opponents can either attempt attacks of opportunity at a -4 penalty or Reflex half DC 24. The save DC is Strength-based.
    Special Qualities Construct traits, Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision
    Saves Fort +0 Ref +0 Will +0
    Abilities Str 23, Dex 11, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 11, Cha 1
    
    Inventory


    Code:
    795 GP +3 Flaming Buster (3d6+6 Fire  30Ft Range    19-20/X2, Can be Fired in a 15ft Line) 10 Lbs.
    4500 GP " Ziggy" 0Lbs. (He walks...hell I probably ride him) 
    2025 GP +3 Mech Suit ( +3 AC MDB +3   +1 to all saves, 1/encounter deal 2d4 electricity damage to an adjacent attacker) 18 Lbs.
    9,000 GP Necklace of Adaptation (Wearer becomes Immune to all harmful vapors/gases and can breath underwater or in a vacuum.)
    4,000 GP Gloves of Ogre Power +2 (+2 Bonus to Str)
    2,200 GP Feather Fall Ring (Makes falling cause no damage and slows the descent)
    8,000 GP Ring of Protection +2 (+2 Deflection bonus to AC)
    2,000 GP Haversack ( Carrys 80lbs.)
    
    Stuff Inside Haversack
    Flint and steel
    Lantern, Hooded
    Oilx5
    Rope, Silk (200ft)
    Spyglass
    Artisan’s Tools, Masterwork
    Magnifying Glass
    Scale, Merchant’s
    Spell Component Pouch
    Artisan’s Outfit
    Cure Serious Wounds Potionx4
    Bed Roll
    
    Note: Suit Occupies body, face, shoulders, torso, and waist and Buster Occupies Both Hands.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-22-2011 at 01:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  3. #43
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    I'm going with..

    The Expert Class!

    ..no?
    ..Alchemist? Adept? Aristocrat? Savage Bard?

    Hmm. I hear Commoner is the way to go. Nothing like "Pitchfork Mastery" and "Summon Frenzied Mob" to easily clear a dungeon.

  4. #44
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagolar View Post
    I'm going with..

    The Expert Class!

    ..no?
    ..Alchemist? Adept? Aristocrat? Savage Bard?

    Hmm. I hear Commoner is the way to go. Nothing like "Pitchfork Mastery" and "Summon Frenzied Mob" to easily clear a dungeon.
    Note: I haven't actually looked at the classes nor do i think they should be added their NPC classes not player classes...just couldn't help linking em.

    Commoner? http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Peasant

    Adept? http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Adept

    Aristocrat? http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Aristocrat

    Expert? http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Expert
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  5. #45
    Community Member KoboldKiller's Avatar
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    Whatever it is people will claim it's OP in about a month after it's been released and start several NERF threads.
    To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
    Go for the eyes Boo!

  6. #46
    Community Member MiLoHe's Avatar
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    they will add house cannith, 99% artificier
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  7. #47
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoboldKiller View Post
    Whatever it is people will claim it's OP in about a month after it's been released and start several NERF threads.
    Than when turbine doesn't IMMEDIATELY implement their nerf suggestions they'll roll up said new class realize its not really OP and just a fun class with some new toys but because most people don't post no worries this class is a-ok threads turbine decides yeah maybe it does need a nerf than you find those people debating their own nerf threads.

    Personally I never understood the nerf everything concept....if class "A'" is weak compared to class "b,c & d" why not just buff class "A"?
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-22-2011 at 02:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #48
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiLoHe View Post
    they will add house cannith, 99% artificier
    Between that, the House Cannith craftsmen npc dialogue- which directly references artificers-, and all the other hints that've been thrown around, I have to say it seems pretty certain.

  9. #49
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagolar View Post
    Between that, the House Cannith craftsmen npc dialogue- which directly references artificers-, and all the other hints that've been thrown around, I have to say it seems pretty certain.
    why would they add a class thats relies entirely on crafting and out of dungeon abilities to a game where crafting is available to any class and buffs,etc. cast outside of a dungeon are immediately purged once they enter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    why would they add a class thats relies entirely on crafting and out of dungeon abilities to a game where crafting is available to any class and buffs,etc. cast outside of a dungeon are immediately purged once they enter.
    The class doesn't rely primarily on crafting, it relies primarily on using magic items and get's some of it's best features from weapon augmentations. The ability to craft those items tended to be more important in PnP but there is a lot of access to items in DDO.

    Adding a class that can add weapon effects, carry trapskills, UMD, and has other infusions that mostly buff seems workable if we give more abilities like recharging wands at shrines and the ability to apply meta's to wands.

    It fits Eberron so why wouldn't we get it added?
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  11. #51
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    why would they add a class thats relies entirely on crafting and out of dungeon abilities to a game where crafting is available to any class and buffs,etc. cast outside of a dungeon are immediately purged once they enter.
    First off, we never touched on the validity of artificer as a class- we only pointed out that the devs have heavily indicated that it would be artificer.
    And, actually, crafting is a very, very minor detail to the class (at least, as it applies to DDO)- one necessary to it, but certainly not its primary feature. Artificers can cast infusions (IE, have spellcasting), can rogue, wear armor, and have various other benefits. They overlap with a lot of existing classes, but they should make for an interesting enough hybrid.
    Also, Artificers are an Eberron-specific class. That alone is reason for the devs to lean toward its inclusion, as it contributes to the feel of the game.

    Edit: Keep in mind also that Artificers in DDO won't be quite like the PnP version; Certainly, they'll lose the long infusion cast times.
    Last edited by Dagolar; 07-22-2011 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #52
    Community Member Lissyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagolar View Post
    First off, we never touched on the validity of artificer as a class- we only pointed out that the devs have heavily indicated that it would be artificer.
    And, actually, crafting is a very, very minor detail to the class (at least, as it applies to DDO)- one necessary to it, but certainly not its primary feature. Artificers can cast infusions (IE, have spellcasting), can rogue, wear armor, and have various other benefits. They overlap with a lot of existing classes, but they should make for an interesting enough hybrid.
    Also, Artificers are an Eberron-specific class. That alone is reason for the devs to lean toward its inclusion, as it contributes to the feel of the game.

    Edit: Keep in mind also that Artificers in DDO won't be quite like the PnP version; Certainly, they'll lose the long infusion cast times.
    Oh. Yay. Another class to invalidate rogues, except for the assassin.

    I think I'm ill to my tummy.

    I do hope you're wrong, and I'm keeping up my hope for psion...but I have a sneaky suspicion you're not wrong at all.

    “Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.”

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissyl View Post
    Oh. Yay. Another class to invalidate rogues, except for the assassin.

    I think I'm ill to my tummy.

    I do hope you're wrong, and I'm keeping up my hope for psion...but I have a sneaky suspicion you're not wrong at all.
    They don't have sneak attack or evasion, or bonus abilities the rogues get. Trapfinding alone does not invalidate any rogue.

    Sorcs do not invalidate wizards (or vice versa), favored souls do not invalidate clerics (or vice versa), and barbarians do not invalidate fighters (or vice versa) just because of shared traits.

    Trapfinding is a rogue ability but if a player plays a rogue for nothing but traps that player has a misconception about the class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  14. #54
    Community Member Lissyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    They don't have sneak attack or evasion, or bonus abilities the rogues get. Trapfinding alone does not invalidate any rogue.

    Sorcs do not invalidate wizards (or vice versa), favored souls do not invalidate clerics (or vice versa), and barbarians do not invalidate fighters (or vice versa) just because of shared traits.

    Trapfinding is a rogue ability but if a player plays a rogue for nothing but traps that player has a misconception about the class.
    I think you need to talk to more people who first come to this game then learn rogues can do traps.

    Rogues-as-DPS is antithetical to the history of D&D up until 3rd edition began (yes, I know, this is based loosely on 3.5). WoW began the rogues-as-dps cycle really heavily, so much so that the ONLY thing a rogue in wow can do is dps. It is INFINITELY boring, unless you like nothing more than big numbers.

    Most people want more than that.

    When they get here and learn about locks and traps, THEN you see lots of people wanting to play rogues because they like the idea of doing something OTHER than nonstop dps. But unfortunately, they get 'rogue is dps' beat in their head, then their game experience shows them that any idiot with one rogue level can do just about anything they can, and they lose interest in both the rogue class and, often, in the game itself unless another class REALLY catches their interest. This is NOT good for the game. Perpetuating this idea -- that a rogue is a fighter with less feats and a snazzy instakill -- is not good for the game imo either.

    “Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.”

  15. #55
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissyl View Post
    I think you need to talk to more people who first come to this game then learn rogues can do traps.

    Rogues-as-DPS is antithetical to the history of D&D up until 3rd edition began (yes, I know, this is based loosely on 3.5). WoW began the rogues-as-dps cycle really heavily, so much so that the ONLY thing a rogue in wow can do is dps. It is INFINITELY boring, unless you like nothing more than big numbers.

    Most people want more than that.

    When they get here and learn about locks and traps, THEN you see lots of people wanting to play rogues because they like the idea of doing something OTHER than nonstop dps. But unfortunately, they get 'rogue is dps' beat in their head, then their game experience shows them that any idiot with one rogue level can do just about anything they can, and they lose interest in both the rogue class and, often, in the game itself unless another class REALLY catches their interest. This is NOT good for the game. Perpetuating this idea -- that a rogue is a fighter with less feats and a snazzy instakill -- is not good for the game imo either.
    Traps need to be made more of an obstacle or more deadly currently its only a minor annoyance...at least randomize the...be it type or location...maybe even roaden the types of traps...like flesh to stone....hell take some indiana jones style traps w/ rolling boulders or walls that squish you etc.

    Basically stuff that you cant walk through...traps that literally make the quest longer would be nice to the player to set it off gets killed and now that way is blocked and the party has to go around
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-22-2011 at 03:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissyl View Post
    I think you need to talk to more people who first come to this game then learn rogues can do traps.

    Rogues-as-DPS is antithetical to the history of D&D up until 3rd edition began (yes, I know, this is based loosely on 3.5). WoW began the rogues-as-dps cycle really heavily, so much so that the ONLY thing a rogue in wow can do is dps. It is INFINITELY boring, unless you like nothing more than big numbers.

    Most people want more than that.

    When they get here and learn about locks and traps, THEN you see lots of people wanting to play rogues because they like the idea of doing something OTHER than nonstop dps. But unfortunately, they get 'rogue is dps' beat in their head, then their game experience shows them that any idiot with one rogue level can do just about anything they can, and they lose interest in both the rogue class and, often, in the game itself unless another class REALLY catches their interest. This is NOT good for the game. Perpetuating this idea -- that a rogue is a fighter with less feats and a snazzy instakill -- is not good for the game imo either.
    It's not DPS either, but that is part of it. And to clarify, rogues had the ability to do a backstab and percent chance for scroll use in PnP long before WoW. I think the prominence of rogue damage has increased over time but it has alwasy been there in DnD.

    They are more like a package deal tho. It isn't all about the damage for a lot of players. It's traps, damage, evasion, UMD, massive number and variety of skills in general, bonus abilities like crippling strike. Traps is only one part of it.

    Like I said earlier, just because more than one class share an ability does not invalidate the other class because they have a lot of differences. That is like saying rangers invalidate fighters because they both use full bab and martial weapons, and both have bonus feats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  17. #57
    Community Member Lissyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    It's not DPS either, but that is part of it. And to clarify, rogues had the ability to do a backstab and percent chance for scroll use in PnP long before WoW. I think the prominence of rogue damage has increased over time but it has alwasy been there in DnD.

    They are more like a package deal tho. It isn't all about the damage for a lot of players. It's traps, damage, evasion, UMD, massive number and variety of skills in general, bonus abilities like crippling strike. Traps is only one part of it.

    Like I said earlier, just because more than one class share an ability does not invalidate the other class because they have a lot of differences. That is like saying rangers invalidate fighters because they both use full bab and martial weapons, and both have bonus feats.
    Backstab was usable once per encounter, with a maximum of x4, only from behind, only with a single-handed melee weapon, and if you were spotted once it was blown. It's a FAR CRY from sneak attack. So the increase of damage was virtually nonexistant before, and has been increasing over the life of 3rd edition (4th Edition does not exist. ).

    But look at that list you just gave. Traps, UMD, large number of varied skills...those are ALL in the artificer. Sure, there's not crippling strike. There's SPELLCASTING (!), magic item creation (which will certainly be handled differently in DDO; in Eberron base pnp, its a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE, one that is essentially class-defining). So the only 'advantage' left for rogues is...sneak attack damage. Pure DPS. IOW...assassin or bust. Not so much different than it is now, but simply another avenue by which to give everyone trap skills and more overpowered UMD. Now they can trade their snazzy instakill for spells, and 'still do everything a mechanic can do'. IE...another route to removing an entire PRE.

    “Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.”

  18. #58
    Community Member KristovK's Avatar
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    With the opening of the House Cannith ward of Stormreach, mention of Artificers in the NPC dialogs of late..I'd be tempted to say Artificer.

    However, the comments about the coding for functionality makes me wonder, after all, most of what the Artificer does, we've already GOT the coding for, summons, buffs, trap finding..

    Something Psionic based would make a little more sense with the additional coding needed, since we don't actually have much of that in the engine atm. But by the same reasoning used for Artificer..we DO have the coding for Psionics, it's just magic really, and DDO already uses the point system for magic, even the Soulknife would fall under the catagory of Monk under the coding currently, so that wouldn't be needed either(weapon upgrades by levels..same as Monk unarmed does).

    Warlock maybe? Or perhaps something we're all NOT thinking about? How many base classes are in there in the full 3.5 rulesets now anyway?

  19. #59
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Default I'm thinking artificer

    As I said I'm thinking Artificer and after a little thought I think we may see something along the lines of Artificer being our first Pet class and then once its working well maybe they'll back code Animal Companions and Familiars.


    Artificer

    Alignment: Any
    HD: d6
    Skills per level: 4+Int Mod
    Skills in Class: Concentration, Disable Device, Haggle, Open Locks, Search, Use Magic Device

    BAB: Rogue
    Fort Save: Poor
    Reflex Save: Poor
    Will Save: Good

    Level 1: Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Craft Reserve, Disable Traps, Item Creation, Scribe Scroll

    Most of these abilities do not translate well into DDO. So they will need something a little different in many cases. In particular Artificer Knowledge, Craft reserve, Item Creation and Scribe Scroll don’t translate well in a system where Crafting is a function of a separate leveling process. Item Creation Feats are pretty much out. As Artificer contains as features a lot of Item Creation Feats that feature needs to be replaced by something to give as much spread as possible. We don’t want a feature to be front loaded or clumped in any level range and likewise we don’t want a lot of bare levels where nothing really new happens.

    Artisan Bonus I see as being a Flat +2 Bonus to Use Magic Device with a possible increase at future levels, perhaps a further bonus at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20. Alternately this could be a +1 at each tier if a bonus of +10 seems too high.

    Disable Traps is equivalent to the rogue Trapfinding ability.

    While Turbine may involve crafting into the mechanics of the Artificer it is obvious that for MMO play they need something more to round them out. Considering the flavor of a class of builders I always figured on Artificer translating into something of a Pet Class. So to replace some of their level one abilities I would start them off with a Clockwork Companion.

    The Clockwork Companion I would be an Iron Defender and as the class progresses they would improve the base Companion at different levels. Additionally there would be Enhancements to fill in the middle ground between Base upgrades that would help keep the Companions useful at all levels. Pets would have their own Action Bar that would allow a greater degree of control on the actions of the companion similar to the Hireling Bar.

    Level 2: Brew Potion

    Trapmaking I: This seems like a good spot to grant the Artificer the Trapmaking Feat similar to the Rogue Class. As Artificer is a crafting class it would not be pushing things too far if they received bonuses to their Traps similar to how the Mechanic PrE might. Perhaps every 4 levels beyond this they could gain further bonuses to their Traps. Additionally these seem a good way to mimic some of the flavor of the class with the ability to create Spell Traps.



    Level 3: Craft Wondrous Item

    Clockwork Companion II: This would seem a good place to start improving the Clockwork Companion. Perhaps an upgrade to a Reinforced Iron Defender would be good.


    Level 4: Craft Homunculus, bonus feat

    Bonus Feat: The bonus feat is fine. We don’t have to equally replace the abilities so Craft Homunculus can be just pushed off to the side for now; anyway we have Clockwork Companions to replace the ability earlier. Can choose the bonus feat from the following list: any Metamagic Feat, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device, Disable Device, Search, Open Locks), and maybe some other ones that I’m unsure of.

    Level 5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Retain Essence

    Artisan Bonus II: Either an extra +1 or a +2 depending on balance.


    Level 6: Metamagic Spell Trigger

    Metamagic Imbue: Instead of breaking down where Metamagic Feats would apply this would just let you apply them to Wands and Scrolls. The addition of Metamagic Feats would cost twice as many Spell Points as if casting a spell or infusion.

    Trapmaking II: This would be a point upon which the Trapmaking ability of the Artificer would improve based on level, perhaps adding a bonus to damage and DC for either mines or grenades.

    Level 7: Craft Wand

    Clockwork Companion III: Here is where the Clockwork Companion really starts to ramp up and we get a Mithril Defender

    Level 8: Bonus Feat

    Bonus Feat: Leave the bonus feat as is.

    Level 9: Craft Rod

    Nothing

    Level 10:

    Artisan Bonus III: extra bonus to Use Magic Device.

    Trapmaking III: An additional bonus to traps made by the Artificer.




    Level 11: Metamagic Spell Completion

    Improved Metamagic Imbue: Metamagic Feats applied to wands and scrolls would now cost their normal amount of Spell Points.
    Clockwork Companion IV: This is where we get a new Clockwork Companion, and the last of the quadrupeds, an Adamantine Defender.

    Level 12: Craft Staff, Bonus Feat

    Bonus Feat: as normal

    Level 13: Skill Mastery

    Remove skill mastery

    Level 14: Forge Ring

    Trapmaking IV: bonus to traps made by artificer

    Level 15:

    Clockwork Companion V: A new Companion and the first biped, the Iron Golem.

    Artisan Bonus IV: further bonus to UMD

    Level 16: Bonus Feat

    Bonus Feat: As normal


    Level 17:

    Nothing

    Level 18:
    Trapmaking V: Bonus to traps made by Artificer

    Level 19:

    Clockwork Companion VI: The final Clockwork Companion upgrade is the Warforged Juggernaut.

    Level 20: Bonus Feat

    Artisan Bonus V: final bonus to UMD.

    Bonus Feat: Keep the bonus feat where it is.


    Additionally Artificers have infusions which in table top are slightly different from spells but for simplicity sake we can just have them work the same way as spells. In table top infusions can only be cast upon objects and constructs, the objects can then confer the bonus onto the user of said object. To simplify this they can operate as buff effects instead. Artificers know all infusions of any level they can cast (similar to clerics) but can cast any of them that they know (like a sorcerer). There are infusions that would prove difficult to recreate here, but others are identical to spells that already exist.

    There are 6 levels of Infusions. The list I think reasonably easy to do is as follows:

    1st-Level Artificer Spells
    Abjur • Ablative Armor: Reduce damage from next attack by 5 + caster level (max 15).
    • Resistance Item: Item bestows +1 or better resistance bonus on saving throws.
    • Shield of Faith: Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.
    Tran • Inflict Light Damage: Deals 1d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +5) to a construct.
    • Lesser Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. This could be done with a short list of Enhancements and apply as a Buff effect.
    • Magic Stone: Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6 +1 damage. Instead od three stones make it a single stone that does 1d6 per 2 levels with a 5d6 cap.
    • Personal Weapon Augmentation: Your weapon gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. Similar to the Lesser Armor Enhancement have this apply a single bonus Enhancement.
    • Repair Light Damage: "Cures" 1d8+1/level (max +5) points of damage to a construct.
    • Skill Enhancement: Item bestows circumstance bonus on skill checks.

    2nd-Level Artificer Spells
    Abjur • Elemental Prod: Move an elemental creature a short distance. A sort of bull rush against an elemental, perhaps with a knockdown ability.
    Tran • Align Weapon: Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic. Makes a target swing as though the Aligned Property was applied
    • Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +3 bonus market price modifier. Same as Lesser Armor Enhancement.
    • Bear's Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
    • Bull's Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
    • Cat's Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
    • Eagle's Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
    • Fox's Cunning: Subject gains +4 to Int for 1 min./level.
    • Inflict Moderate Damage: Deals 2d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +10) to a construct.
    • Lesser Construct Essence: Grants a living construct qualities of the construct type.
    • Lesser Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. Similar to Personal Weapon Augmentation only can be applied to another.
    • Owl's Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
    • Reinforce Construct: Construct gains 1d6 + 1/level temporary hit points.
    • Repair Moderate Damage: "Cures" 2d8+1/level (max +10) points of damage to a construct.
    • Toughen Construct: Grants construct +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor.

    3rd-Level Artificer Spells
    Abjur • Construct Energy Ward: As resist energy, except that the target must be a construct.
    • Spell Snare: Dragonshard absorbs a spell or spell-like ability of up to 3rd level. Creates a spell absorbing effect.
    Evoc • Blast Rod: Infused rod stores 1d8/level destructive energy.
    Tran • Adamantine Weapon: Transform weapon into adamantine. Apply Adamantine as a property to the targets weapons.
    • Greater Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +5 bonus market price modifier.
    • Inflict Serious Damage: Deals 3d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +15) to a construct.
    • Lesser Humanoid Essence: Grants a construct the ability to accept healing magic. Improves the constructs susceptibility to Positive Energy.
    • Power Surge: Charged spell trigger item gains temporary charges.
    • Repair Serious Damage: "Cures" 3d8+1/level (max +15) points of damage to a construct.
    • Stone Construct: Construct gains DR 10/adamantine.

    4th-Level Artificer Spells
    Abjur • Censure Elementals: Deal 2d4 + 1/level damage each round to elementals.
    • Greater Construct Energy Ward: As protection from energy, except that the target must be a construct.
    • Lesser Globe of Invulnerability: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.
    Tran • Concurrent Infusions: Cast three 1st-level infusions simultaneously.
    • Humanoid Essence: Imposes upon a construct some of the weakness of the humanoid type.
    • Inflict Critical Damage: Deals 4d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +20) to a construct.
    • Iron Construct: Construct gains DR 15/adamantine and takes half damage from acid and fire.
    • Repair Critical Damage: "Cures" 4d8 +1/level (max +20) points of damage to a construct.
    • Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with up to +3 bonus market price modifier.

    5th-Level Artificer Spells
    Conj • Invoke Elemental: You temporarily release a bound elemental and compel it to obey you. This could act as summon elemental effect instead.
    • Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
    Ench • Dominate Living Construct: As dominate person, but affecting a living construct. Maybe it could instead affect constructs in general.
    Evoc • Wall of Force: Wall is immune to damage.
    Tran • Construct Essence: As lesser construct essence, but grants more qualities of the construct type.
    • Disrupting Weapon: Melee weapon destroys undead.
    • Mass Inflict Light Damage: Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many constructs.
    • Mass Repair Light Damage: Repairs 1d8 damage +1/level for many constructs.
    • Slaying Arrow: Creates a projectile deadly to a specific creature type. Could instead create a stack of Slaying Arrows similar to Arcane Archer Slayer Arrows.


    6th-Level Artificer Spells
    Abjur • Globe of Invulnerability: As globe of invulnerability, lesser, plus 4th-level spell effects.
    • Greater Spell Snare: Dragonshard absorbs a spell or spelllike ability of up to 6th level.
    Conj • Wall of Iron: 30 hp/four levels; can topple onto foes.
    Evoc • Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
    Tran • Disable Construct: Deals 10/level damage to target construct.
    • Greater Humanoid Essence: Gives a construct the humanoid type.
    • Greater Natural Weapon Augmentation: Natural weapon gains special ability with up to +5 bonus market price modifier.
    • Greater Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with up to +5 bonus market price modifier.
    • Hardening: Permanently make an object's hardness improve.
    • Mass Inflict Moderate Damage: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many constructs.
    • Mass Lesser Construct Essence: Grants many living constructs qualities of the construct type.
    • Mass Repair Moderate Damage: Repairs 2d8 damage +1/level for many constructs.
    • Total Repair: Repair 10 points/level of damage to a construct.

    The only thing left is Enhancements and PrEs.

    As far as Enhancements go Skill Enhancements for each of the In Class Skills seem fine. Additional improvements to Wand and Scroll Mastery similar to Wizards and Bards would be a good fit if not necessary. Reducing the cost of Metamagic Feats would be a good thing as well. The enhancements to wands and scrolls should exceed other classes as they specialize in items. Additionally a couple of lines to improve the Clockwork Companions would be a good thing as well.

    Toughen Companion 1-3: +2 AC, +10hp to the Companion
    Strengthen Companion 1-3: +2 Strength,
    Improved Weapon +1 Enhancement bonus per tier
    Reinforce Companion 1-3: +1 DR/Adamantine, +1 Fort Save

    Just for a few ideas.

    For a PrE I’d say Renegade Master Maker might be an interesting choice… like a Pale Master but in Construct Form instead.


    That’s what I have for Artificer so far

    Aesop
    Last edited by Aesop; 07-22-2011 at 04:57 PM.
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissyl View Post
    Rogues-as-DPS is antithetical to the history of D&D up until 3rd edition began (yes, I know, this is based loosely on 3.5). WoW began the rogues-as-dps cycle really heavily, so much so that the ONLY thing a rogue in wow can do is dps. It is INFINITELY boring, unless you like nothing more than big numbers.
    Um, no.

    Rogues have been sick damage dealers since AD&D first edition. I've been playing it that long and never had a rogue character who could not put up some sick damage when in his element (getting sneak attacks).

    In fact, they used to put up even sicker damage back in 1st and 2nd edition if you knew how to build them because there were more abuse-able weapon tables and proficiencies worked much differently (didn't take feats, feats didn't exist). Back then, you relied on rogues for their trap and lock skills, their light touch (pick pockets), and their damage output in combat...just like now.

    WoW wasn't even a gleam in anyone's eye when rogues first cut their DPS teeth in a MMO even, EverQuest did that way before WoW.
    Ghallanda Server: Rodasch - Pale Master, Niccolina - Assassin, Mahlak - Radiant Servant, Etayn - Monster, Brikbaht - Tukaw, Khawstik - Pale Master
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    I didn't have the heart to tell him he looked like a fat guy in a Godzilla suit.

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