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  1. #1
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Default Divine Phoenix – an unarmed human healing amp build (15 Paladin, 4 Monk, 1 Rogue)

    Many thanks to everyone who read or used this build. I have now posted an updated version here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=407723

    The original thread will still be preserved for posterity.

    Divine Phoenix – an unarmed human healing amp build (15 Paladin, 4 Monk, 1 Rogue)

    Introduction
    First I want to give major props to SolarDawning for the Solar Phoenix build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=309261), which was the primary inspiration for this character.

    That said, I was interested in finding a way to increase the damage output while still retaining the survivability and versatility of the Solar Phoenix. I was also interested in making better use (in my humble opinion) of the paladin class with my build, beyond the 21% healing amp from the Hunter of the Dead prestige.

    Divine Might, Divine Favor, and Zeal are three of the paladin’s most powerful abilities, and all of them gain in relative power with increasing attack speed. Since nothing (as far as I know) attacks faster than a hasted, haste-boosted, unarmed monk, then it stands to reason that an unarmed monk-splash paladin would put those abilities to their greatest possible benefit.

    I also find that for me to get excited about playing a character it needs to be able to play solo much of the time, and I really do not like using hirelings since they just slow me down. Soloability boils down, in many ways, to having a potent source of self-healing. This build has that in spades: healing ki and fists of light as a constant, low source of heals as well as a handful of beefy Lay on Hands, then the whole healing mix is topped off with maximized cure serious wounds. All of which are boosted by 300-400% healing amp and a smattering of paladin devotion. Oh, and don’t forget easy access to 40+ umd, which is to say, no-fail heal scrolls.

    So to recap: dps + self-heals = fun!

    Without further ado, on to…(drum roll please) THE BUILD!!!
    This build really shines if you have a past life as a monk. That is what my current character has, and I highly recommend it, though I do not believe that it is strictly necessary.

    Stats (34-point):
    16 strength (+5 levels, +2 tome, +6 item, +2 stance, +1 human adaptability = 32 without even trying. Add in +2 ship buffs, rage, a +7 item and +1 exceptional = 38)
    15 dexterity (+2 tome, +6 item, +1 exceptional = 24)
    14 constitution (+2 tome, +2 ship, +2 rage, +6 item = 26)
    8 intelligence (+2 tome = 10)
    8 wisdom (+2 tome, +6 item = 16 which is more than enough to cast level 4 spells)
    16 charisma (+2 tome, +6 item, +2 enhancements, +1 human adaptability +1 exceptional = 28)

    For 32-point build, just drop starting charisma to 15 and put your final level-up stat boost at level 20 into charisma instead of strength. This is not recommended as a 28-point build.

    Feats and leveling progression:
    1 R) Toughness, Two-weapon fighting
    2 M) Power attack (M)
    3 P) Past life: monk
    4-8 P) Extend at level 6
    9 M) Improved two-weapon fighting, toughness (M)
    10 M) Path of Harmonious Balance
    11-12 P) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
    13-16 P) Greater two-weapon fighting at 15
    17 M)
    18-20 P) Maximize at 18

    Enhancements:
    Haste Boost (1)
    Human adaptability: strength (2)
    Human greater adaptability: charisma (4)
    Human Improved Recovery III (12)
    Human Versatility II (3)
    Way of the Patient Tortoise (1)
    Improved Recovery I (2)
    Extra Lay on Hands III (6)
    Hunter of the Dead II (6)
    Racial Toughness II (3)
    Sneak attack training I (1)
    Devotion IV (10)
    Charisma II (6)
    Wisdom I (2)
    Paladin toughness III (6)
    Divine Might III (6)
    Extra turning II (3)
    Improved turning II (3)
    Void Strike I (1)
    Divine Righteousness (1)

    “Hey Whomhead, why did you go for that strange class split?”
    Glad you asked! The paladin has many powerful abilities that are, I feel, often under-rated. So here’s a breakdown of my reasoning.

    15 Paladin gets:
    Hunter of the Dead – this grants negative energy immunity as well as 10% healing amp at each tier for 21% total.

    Zeal – 10% double strike! There is a continual debate among the monk community whether fire stance for the extra strength and ki generation, or wind stance for the double strike chances, is the better stance for dps. My answer: I want both! Seriously though, get yourself some haste and cast zeal, and you get the best of both worlds. Can you say Win/Win? I knew you could!

    Cure spells – when maximized and amplified by your healing amp, the devotion enhancements, and superior potency, each cast of CSW will hit you for better than 300 hit points, and even a cure light will hit you for more than 150. You get two level 4 spell slots with 15 paladin. I chose to take CSW, but deathward and stalwart pact are both perfectly viable alternatives since your CMW will still be potent.

    Divine Might 3 - +6 damage per swing at the attack rate of a hasted/haste-boosted unarmed monk? Yes please, with gravy on top!

    Divine grace – charisma bonus added to all saves. It is quite easy to get each save higher than 30, and with some buffs they’ll be around 35-40 each.

    Divine Righteousness – 1 minute of double hate generation coupled with a little bit of gear makes you a potent hate tank under the right conditions.

    4 Monk levels gets:
    Evasion – pretty obvious how powerful this ability is, especially when coupled with crazy-high saves.

    Light path – there are just a huge amount of benefits to this path. On a low-monk splash this path does so much for your character, it almost doesn’t seem fair. You get all of the light finishers (-25% sp costs for you and the party, +2 to-hit, stun immunity, and heals… yum!). You also get fists of light, which when coupled with 400% healing amp gets you a whopping 4-8 hp back with every hit.

    Healing amp - 10% healing amp from enhancements. Hey, every extra source adds a lot of amp, so load me up!

    2d6 base fists damage – if you have the monk past-life (which is highly recommended for this build) and the Garments of Equilibrium your base fists will hit for 2d6 damage. Not too shabby for one feat and an extra level beyond that required for the light path.

    Rogue level gets:
    Haste Boost – stacking 15% bonus to attack speed. Pretty self-explanatory how powerful this.

    UMD as a class skill – widely accepted as the most powerful skill in the game. Self heals, fire shield, teleport… the list of benefits is nearly limitless. You also get open locks, which with just 4 points at character creation can still get you picking nearly every lock in the game.

    1d6 + 3 sneak attack – while it is just a little bit of damage it is basically free, and hey, damage is damage, right?

    NOTE: I have considered going with a Fighter level instead of the Rogue level. Both get Haste Boost, so that’s a wash. Beyond that you’re trading one feat and full BAB for baby sneak attack damage and all the versatility that comes with Rogue skills – particularly UMD. For me the advantages of Rogue for solo play made that my choice, but going Fighter and rearranging the feats some to get Quicken or another Toughness would be a worthy alternative.

    Human gets:
    30% healing amp from enhancements. Multiplicative stacking of healing amp means more sources are incredibly powerful. As with the Solar Phoenix this is a core component of this build.
    Bonus feat – I figure that at a bare minimum this gives you 22 hit points, and anything more interesting you can think of beyond that is just gravy.
    No penalties to any stat at character creation. This is surprisingly important given the extreme level of MAD (multiple attribute dependency) this build has.
    The ability to even out to stats with human adaptability enhancements.
    An extra skill at each level.

    The all-important Dee Pee Ess
    After having this build posted for a while, many of the comments center on the notion that this build will have bad DPS. Since this seems to be a major concern, I am adding this section to address the issue.

    First point: no, this build will not be able to deal comparable dps to a fully dps-specc’ed barbarian or fighter (though it may very well edge them out on 100% fort targets). Of course you have to make some trade-offs when it comes to survivability and damage. This is more or less inherent in good game design and, aside from WF arcanes, holds pretty true in DDO. On the other hand, this build will deal comparable, if not greater, damage than that of a pure light monk, which is the more logical comparison to make than to H-Orc barbs. But compared to that light monk it will have better to-hit values due to paladin buffs and burst damage from smites. Of course the monk gets better stuns, but the Divine Phoenix also has the benefits of higher saves, umd, and healing amp compared to that light monk.

    Second point: it is really easy to underestimate the DPS potential of this build. I am not sufficiently “mathy” to go into a full on analysis of it, but I am quite comfortable saying that this build will out-dps any of the longsword-wielding Solar Phoenix variants. While in DPS mode (more on that later), the Divine Phoenix attacks ~10% faster due to unarmed fighting, has a higher base damage (2d6 for fists VS 1d8 for greensteel longswords), and has many more bursting effects that add an enormous amount of damage per hit. In auto-crit conditions the difference is even more apparent as all of the bursting effects are amplified by 50% as well.

    Third and final point: I play this character in two distinct modes – Survival and DPS. The differences between the two modes primarily revolve around gear changes, but can be extended even into changing your enhancements for a healthy increase in damage.

    In most epics and end-game raids the healers are designed to keep characters with average levels of healing amp alive. This means that your 400% healing amp is largely going to waste, except for the amusement healers may get out of seeing really big green numbers appear above your head. In these groups your role is to get out there and kill stuff. And that’s pretty much the end of the story.

    It may go without saying (but I will do it anyway) that while in these situations you will want to have all of your DPS-enhancing gear on: Garments of Equilibrium or Enlightened Vestments (these rock the house in Epic Chronoscope) instead of the Dragontouched Robes, Shintao Cord instead of a Bard necklace… the list goes on. Check out the gear section below for a full layout.

    In addition to these instantaneous gear changes, if you have a few days where you’ll be running the same content, you can change your enhancements around as well. Because there is no difference in feat requirements for the Hunter of the Dead and Knight of the Chalice prestige lines, you can swap between the two every 3 days. I would strongly recommend doing so if this fits into your playstyle. For example, choose KotC over the weekends and HotD while you’re soloing during the week. KotC tier 2 adds 2d6 and +3 to-hit to your attacks against evil outsiders, which comprise the majority of stuff in end-game raids. Finally, as with all of the other paladin abilities, the faster you attack, the more powerful the ability is. And never forget that no one’s attacking faster than you.

    Miscellaneous miscellany: points and summations
    Skills:
    Take whatever you want at creation – you’ll have a ton. Priorities are UMD, Balance, Concentration. Open lock is nice, as are jump and 1 in tumble. As you level, prioritize UMD, concentration and balance.

    UMD:
    23 ranks
    9 charisma
    6 greensteel charisma skills item
    4 greater heroism
    3 golden cartouche
    2 good luck
    3 human versatility
    = 50 use magic device, but can hit 38-40 with barely any gear swapping for easy heal scroll use

    Hitpoints:
    20 heroic durability
    6 rogue
    32 monk
    150 paladin
    44 toughness
    20 racial toughness
    30 paladin toughness
    160 constitution
    30 greater false life
    5 Tortoise path
    45 greensteel
    20 minos
    10 Draconic vitality
    = 567

    Healing amplification:
    1.21 Hunter of the Dead
    1.1 Monk
    1.3 Human
    1.1/1.2 Dragontouched
    1.25 Jidz + fire stance
    1.3 Epic gloves of the claw
    1.1 Ship
    = 408% total healing amp

    Armor class:
    I have not worked to increase this at all, so I don’t know exactly how it would go. I do think that with the right gear you could get situational good AC, but the limitations placed on the healing amp gear makes AC tough to achieve.

    Gear:
    *important caveat* this is very much a work in progress since I am still trying to accumulate the epic items and ToD rings. I like the way it is shaping up though!

    Because the needs of a character while soloing are typically quite different from those for group play (i.e. raids/epics) I'm have put together two gear options. The one on the left is for groups, where DPS is king, and the one on the right is for soloing (aka "survival mode), where things like big healing amp and superior potency are more important than a few extra points of damage. Where there is only one option listed, then that's a permanent slot.

    Head: Epic Helm of frost
    Neck: Shintao cord / Smedgar's necklace (equip when resting for the Wis VI and soloing for the Sup. Pot.)
    Goggles: Epic Raveneye
    Trinket: Epic Gem of Many Facets (yellow slot: dunno here, maybe blindness immunity?)
    Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak (green slot: Toughness)
    Body: Garments of Equilbrium / 10/20/Earth Dragontouched
    Bracers: Epic Jidz-tetka (green slot: Greater False Life; colorless slot: ?)
    Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw
    Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion (green slot: heavy fort; colorless: ?)
    Belt: Greensteel concordant opposition (+45 HP)
    Ring 1: Kyosho’s + holy burst
    Ring 2: One of the +6 Dex rings + shocking burst / Smedgar's + shocking burst

    You'll want to fill the colorless slots with any exceptional +1 stats you're missing. I left those blank as which one will depend on which ring you get for shocking burst and whatever is needed to even out your stats.

    It is certainly the case that much of the damage output of this build is tied to the ToD rings and other gear. However, I don’t have either of my rings bursted yet, and have still managed to lead several PUG raids and many quests in kill counts. I’m not trying to brag, just pointing out that players with less than optimal gear should not be shy to try this build out. It is easy and fast to level, and can dish out sustainable and acceptable dps levels without gear any fancier than some +2 Holy Handwraps of Bleeding (which I used almost exclusively from the moment I could equip them).

    The Achilles Heel of gearing this build. Sadly the build does currently basically require the Devout Handwraps from the Shadow Crypt to break DR on Arreatrikos, Sulu, and the pit fiend gang. Hopefully in the future it will be easier to get DR-breaking wraps with the new crafting system, but until you do you should plan on spending some QT in the crypt. Fortunately it has some of the highest XP per minute in the game, so you probably would be hanging out there any way.

    EDIT: It was pointed out that once you get Holyburst crafted on your ToD rings, then it becomes much easier to break pit-fiend DR, as it only requires silver-threaded wraps which can be acquired in the Catacombs. They can also be found as rare rewards in the end chest of Devil Assault, though I have run it many times without any luck. In any case, not quite the Achilles Heel it seemed at first.

    Conclusion
    I play as Fistsofsteel on Khyber (http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/fistsofsteel/) check me out if you want to see how my gear accumulation is progressing.

    Finally, thanks for reading! I really enjoy this build, and think that it has a lot to offer. If you have any critiques or things I’ve overlooked, please let me know.
    Last edited by whomhead; 02-13-2013 at 03:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Aeolwind's Avatar
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    Eh, after actually running the number, it's fairly insignificant and pots work better.

    +1 sir.
    Last edited by Aeolwind; 04-18-2011 at 05:16 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomhead View Post

    The Achilles Heel of gearing this build. Sadly the build does currently basically require the Devout Handwraps from the Shadow Crypt to break DR on Arreatrikos, Sulu, and the pit fiend gang.
    If you can get Holy Burst on one of your Tod rings then you can get any old metalline wraps or even the named end reward silver threaded wraps from the Catacombs chain for bypassing DR. I'm not sure how close you are to getting the right ring and getting it crafted though.
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    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeolwind View Post
    Eh, after actually running the number, it's fairly insignificant and pots work better.

    +1 sir.
    Hmm... I have been trying to figure out what you wrote before your edit, but am having absolutely no luck. Oh well. Glad I was right though!

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    If you can get Holy Burst on one of your Tod rings then you can get any old metalline wraps or even the named end reward silver threaded wraps from the Catacombs chain for bypassing DR. I'm not sure how close you are to getting the right ring and getting it crafted though.
    That's an excellent point. I actually have been waiting for my 9th ToD so I can craft Holyburst onto one of my rings, even though it isn't one of my dream rings, and been thinking lots about what sort of wraps would be best after that. So, thanks for the reminder, and the OP is updated accordingly. +1 to you!

  5. #5
    Community Member SpearKicker's Avatar
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    Really nice build!

    I was working in a light monk, also inspired by Solar Phoenix, that would have a very similar healing amp than this build (trading the Hunter heal amp for the extra 20% from monk enhancements). It would have more DPS (probably, dont know for sure, since I didnt do the math), but would lose all the good stuff you pointed up there that gives this build its versatility and soloability.

    +1!

    The only problem I've seen there is that you are pointing your damage as 2d6 using the garmets, but actualy, in order to get this build high heal amp, you have to use the DT robe/vestments. This way your finishing damage would be 1d10, not 2d6. Of course you can just drop the heal amp for little more DPS if the situation calls for it. Dont think its a big problem anyway.

    I was thinking the Solar Phoenix would be a possible future life for my main character (monk first life, monk/fighter this second one), but I think this build will be a better choice (equipment wise).

    Last thing: what would you do if you could make this a 36 point build? Was thinking of raising CON, but would like to know what you think about it.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearKicker View Post
    The only problem I've seen there is that you are pointing your damage as 2d6 using the garmets, but actualy, in order to get this build high heal amp, you have to use the DT robe/vestments.
    Hey there, glad you like the build! You are absolutely correct that swapping in the Garments will lower your healing amp. I switch liberally between the DT robes and Garments, depending on whether I want to focus on damage or survival. In my current set up (i.e. no Epic Claw Gloves) I still have 238% heal amp with the garments on, which is more than enough if you are, for example, in a raid with multiple healers where your role is to get out there and kill stuff ASAP. On the other hand, when I'm soloing Amrath or elite IQ quests then I go with the DT robes where I have 314% heal amp, giving Fists of Light 3-6 Hp back per hit. If I REALLY need help surviving, then I will equip some Vampiric Stonedust Wraps for 6-9 HP per hit.

    One note of caution, however: make sure you slot something with Heavy Fort on when you're wearing the DT! About the only time I die is when I switch to "survival mode," but then forget the Fortification. Soloing Sins of Attrition on hard with only 10% fort from the Stalwart Trinket is really tough. =D

    Quote Originally Posted by SpearKicker View Post
    Last thing: what would you do if you could make this a 36 point build? Was thinking of raising CON, but would like to know what you think about it.
    There are two ways I would go with 36 build points. I would have really like to fit Intimidate into Fists' skill layout, but with all those Pally levels that just wasn't happening. But with 2 extra build points I would raise intelligence to 10 and max Intimidate. With the changes to Intimidate in U9 that would make you a potent intimidate/hate tank.

    The other option requires either a +3 dex tome or dropping a level-up stat boost into dex. If you're willing to go that route, then I would start with 16/14/16/8/8/16. The extra con is always helpful, amirite? You just need to get to 17 dex for the TWF chain.

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    Community Member SpearKicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whomhead View Post
    ... with 2 extra build points I would raise intelligence to 10 and max Intimidate. With the changes to Intimidate in U9 that would make you a potent intimidate/hate tank. ...
    I Knew I should have asked you! Didn't though in that possibility, even now that I LR my main just to get Intimidation. Having a lot of fun with it. I am sure this option suits better my playstyle. Thanks once again.

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    What would the level 3 feat be if you are not past life monk?

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    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skolten View Post
    What would the level 3 feat be if you are not past life monk?
    An excellent question! And one that is surprisingly hard to answer. The primary feat that I have wanted to fit into this build is Quicken to make all the heals uninterruptable. However, since that's a metamagic feat, you can't take it until you get an SP bar, which doesn't happen until level 4 paladin. Sadly then, that is not an option for the level 3 feat.

    Instead, I would propose you take one of the following, though none are particularly compelling:
    Toughness - that would make number 3 for the build, which is two more than I'd prefer. While more HP is always good, I can't fight the feeling that something else would be more useful, though I haven't come up with much.

    Quickdraw - a nice feat to help get more out of your action boosts and speeds up throwing weapons. Both of these are fairly marginal benefits as you'll only have 5 action boosts, and let's be honest, throwing weapons are going to be almost entirely useless with or without quickdraw. Nevertheless, this is much more stylish than another toughness.

    Force of personality - applies your charisma mod to your will saves. Charisma will be stellar, and will is the lowest save, however the saves are already through the roof on this build, so the benefit is, once again, minimal.

    Skill focus: UMD - +3 to UMD is nice for not having to swap items as much before you craft a +6 charisma skills shroud item. On a first life character who wont have greensteel already made this might actually provide the greatest utility.

    Weapon focus: bludgeon - +1 attack is good, but outside of epic bosses you'll hit everything on all but a 1 anyway.

    So those are the options and some analysis. Pick whichever one suits your playstyle best. Fortunately, while none of the options are particularly compelling, none of them are particularly bad either. That counts for something, right!?!

  10. #10
    Community Member Aeolwind's Avatar
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    What I was pondering on was Wizard over Rogue to take advantage of echoes of power for unlimited CSW with your healing amp, but you loose trap and UMD skills. Pots use faster and are renewable faster that echoes though, so my argument was moot.
    Aeolwind (5/12) - 18 Sorc/1 Art | Melisandria - 20 Fighter SD | Anlona - 20 cleric RS

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    Hey there !
    I was just wondering... on ur iten list i didnt see SP itens so what would be ur SP pool? it will be enough to cast a good number of heals? if u could roll me the aprox number of ur SP pool i would really appreciate.
    thank you ! and nice build =]

  12. #12
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeolwind View Post
    What I was pondering on was Wizard over Rogue to take advantage of echoes of power for unlimited CSW with your healing amp, but you loose trap and UMD skills. Pots use faster and are renewable faster that echoes though, so my argument was moot.
    Thanks for elaborating, and I agree with your assessment!

    Quote Originally Posted by zehrubens2 View Post
    Hey there !
    I was just wondering... on ur iten list i didnt see SP itens so what would be ur SP pool? it will be enough to cast a good number of heals? if u could roll me the aprox number of ur SP pool i would really appreciate.
    thank you ! and nice build =]
    Right now I am wearing Smedgar's necklace (Superior potency VI and Wizardry VI) as a really nice boost to heals and SP. I actually plan to get the matching ring and put shocking burst on that to use as back-up to the Encrusted. That set-up is much more powerful when soloing, where an extra point or two of damage makes little difference. EDIT: just realized that I will have to swap out Shintao, not the encrusted set. That's a bigger hit, but the outcome is still the same. For soloing or cases where I really need to stay alive I can still switch to smedgar's. /EDIT

    Anyway, with that set I currently have 399 sp. It goes a pretty long ways, and remember that you can cast a -25% SP buff for yourself at will! I'm also nearly done with a con-opp item, which should give me more than enough sp for my meager needs.
    Last edited by whomhead; 04-22-2011 at 07:41 PM.

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    Btw, alignment isnt in the build page. Found out by clicking on your character tho.

    Would dodge be viable for the level 3 feat?

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    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skolten View Post
    Btw, alignment isnt in the build page. Found out by clicking on your character tho.

    Would dodge be viable for the level 3 feat?
    it has 15 levels of paladin. what exactly were you expecting the alignment to be, chaotic evil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    it has 15 levels of paladin. what exactly were you expecting the alignment to be, chaotic evil?
    Well i have to admit i am a noob in ddo. I just came back after not playing for 16 months. I really dont know what the allignments do and do not. Go to one of the beginner guides you might say, but i am a very hardcore player that have played almost any mmo out there you can think of. When i came back to ddo i spent hours upon hours searching the forums for knowledge and a build that fits my playstyle. This one fits perfectly.

    Unarmed but able to solo for most of the time.


    Now back on topic.

  16. #16
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    I really like this build... And I'm considering TRing my monk in something close. Altought I'd like to make it Helf... I haven't looked at it closely, but it would only lose 1 feat (1 toughness ? Take Twf as a monk feat, little to no leveling order change : 3 monk for twf, 9 pally), for a dilletante. Going /1 fighter with rogue dilly, or /1 rogue with... Whatever useful dilly you can grab (barb for more HP AND some DR ? Fighter for some combat DCs ?... Can't remember the other ones).
    The only problem with Helf is that (I think, didn't double check) it doesn't have Human heal amp tier 3, it does have tier 2 for sure.

    The helf version is overall similar to human (especially if barb dilly counters the 1 less toughness HP-wise), but hey, I love Helves.
    Last edited by -Zephyr-; 04-23-2011 at 07:51 AM.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skolten View Post
    Btw, alignment isnt in the build page. Found out by clicking on your character tho.

    Would dodge be viable for the level 3 feat?
    Alignment is, as you've no doubt realized by now, lawful good.

    Assuming that you aren't building for AC, then dodge adds even less than any of the options that I laid out above for the level 3 feat. 1 AC is going to make absolutely no difference at any point past about level 10-13 (and very little benefit even before then), depending on how much emphasis you put on getting AC gear. Beyond gianthold, however, your AC is going to be low enough that you get hit on all but a 1. That said, you could take dodge for the early levels then swap to something else after you get to a higher level and have a better sense of what you think would provide greater benefit to your character.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Zephyr- View Post
    I really like this build... And I'm considering TRing my monk in something close. Altought I'd like to make it Helf... I haven't looked at it closely, but it would only lose 1 feat (1 toughness ? Take Twf as a monk feat, little to no leveling order change : 3 monk for twf, 9 pally), for a dilletante. Going /1 fighter with rogue dilly, or /1 rogue with... Whatever useful dilly you can grab (barb for more HP AND some DR ? Fighter for some combat DCs ?... Can't remember the other ones).
    The only problem with Helf is that (I think, didn't double check) it doesn't have Human heal amp tier 3, it does have tier 2 for sure.

    The helf version is overall similar to human (especially if barb dilly counters the 1 less toughness HP-wise), but hey, I love Helves.
    Half-elf certainly has a lot to offer. I would advise against dropping the rogue level as it allows full points in UMD along with the sneak attack.

    Fighter dilettante offers very little to the build as I have it, since I don't use any combat feats. Although, with Stunning Fist being based off of character level instead of monk level in U9, finding a way to work that in to a H-elf build could be quite powerful.

    You could also still take the rogue dilettante for the enhancements to sneak attack, though that is of relatively minor benefit. I think the best way to go if you don't try for stunning fist would be to go barb for the DR and to make up the HP you lost by dropping a toughness. You'll obviously have to drop some of the enhancements I listed in the OP, but should be able to keep all the important stuff. If you try it, please let me know how it works out for you.

  18. #18
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    I like this build a lot. Pretty sure this -- or something like it, altered for maximum effectiveness at level 18 -- is how I'm going to get my Paladin life in.

    If I can make one unorthodox suggestion:

    Replace the second Toughness with Cleave. With the U9 changes to Cleave, it no longer slows down attack rates. It seems like it will be great for this build for generating ki and healing when surrounded. Not to mention that the Paladin abilities are most efficient when getting lots of strikes in -- cleave helps with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

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    Really interesting build. Have you considered using the epic abishai boots, cloak and helm for the 3 piece set bonus? It'll get you two green slots you could put heavy fort and toughness into to make up for the loss of minos, and with all it gets you, I think it would be worth losing the mabar cloak. It would mean finding a new slot for your greensteel though.

    Edit: Upon reflection, I think the belt slot would be best for your new greensteel since the 3 abishai items come with +7 con and a yellow slot for GFL, so the belt would really only be getting you the set bonus. With the stacking +3 str that comes from abishai, you'd essentially be trading +1 damage for +1 hit.
    Last edited by Ytteri; 04-23-2011 at 05:34 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytteri View Post
    Really interesting build. Have you considered using the epic abishai boots, cloak and helm for the 3 piece set bonus? It'll get you two green slots you could put heavy fort and toughness into to make up for the loss of minos, and with all it gets you, I think it would be worth losing the mabar cloak. It would mean finding a new slot for your greensteel though.

    Edit: Upon reflection, I think the belt slot would be best for your new greensteel since the 3 abishai items come with +7 con and a yellow slot for GFL, so the belt would really only be getting you the set bonus. With the stacking +3 str that comes from abishai, you'd essentially be trading +1 damage for +1 hit.
    Unfortunately on a pally who wants to use the epic abishai set, there is only 1 spot for Greensteel : goggles.
    Helm, cloak and boots taken by epic abishai set.
    Bracers and gloves taken by either 5 piece abishai, or epic claw
    Necklace goes to ToD set or Torc (Torc on a melee non-AC toon = infinite sp, far better than conc-opp)
    Belt goes to ToD set as well... *could* be a spot for GS, but you'd probably win more with ToD set (Ravager, Occult slayer...)

    What my (pure pally, using KotC belt) will do is keep switching his goggles between GS and Tharnes.

    As for my Helf version of this build, my monk is unfortunately far from being TR ready, and I'm more focused on my pure Pally TR atm (he requires more gear, but already has much more, and is less gimped than my Monk thus much more fun to play). I'ml keep you informed when I get to roll it

    Edit : just tough of it. How about an Helf 15 pally/4 monk/ 1 bard with rogue dilly ? You get full UMD, sligtly more SA damage than /1 rogue human (IIRC), but you also gain acess to focusing chant (+1 to-hit and skill, stacks with everything), and a small song when you are soloing for more to-hit and damage (stacks with divine favor, but the to-hit part doesn't stack with GH if you scroll it). Wearing a stormsinger cloak (from attack on stormreach chain) would even allow you to regen that song every 5 mins (inspire courage lasts 4 mins even at lvl 1 bard... Woot !).
    The only problem I see with this is that... Since it's an uncommon split, narrow minded people may think you're a noob, and decline you. Oh, and that haste boost... Haven't made my mind yet anyway... /1 bard would probably more for flavor, /1 rogue gives more benefits in raids or any party with a bard, especially with haste boost.
    Last edited by -Zephyr-; 04-24-2011 at 08:44 AM.

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