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Thread: Tanking Shadows

  1. #1
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Default Tanking Shadows

    I guess they're increasing the movement speed of Shadows in ToD- good news is that they can be "tanked" by an arcane. Saw it tonight in a normal ToD... my BF decided to give it a shot and it worked beautifully. Better than kiting, IMO.

    He's welcome to come in and share the method he used, but to the best of my knowledge, it's just getting aggro via FW, Prot Elements, resists and a tier II cold absorb item. He took some damage as they moved in, but after they were settled on him, he could keep himself up fine.

    The most damage seems to occur as they move in and pass him through the "cold aura"- so lots of cold damage when they close in, but substantially less if you keep still and don't move in and out.

    I hope this helps anyone who was worried about kiting after the new update.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phalaeo View Post
    I guess they're increasing the movement speed of Shadows in ToD- good news is that they can be "tanked" by an arcane. Saw it tonight in a normal ToD... my BF decided to give it a shot and it worked beautifully. Better than kiting, IMO.

    He's welcome to come in and share the method he used, but to the best of my knowledge, it's just getting aggro via FW, Prot Elements, resists and a tier II cold absorb item. He took some damage as they moved in, but after they were settled on him, he could keep himself up fine.

    The most damage seems to occur as they move in and pass him through the "cold aura"- so lots of cold damage when they close in, but substantially less if you keep still and don't move in and out.

    I hope this helps anyone who was worried about kiting after the new update.
    There are no changes to their speed, the thread is wrong.

  3. #3
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    cast fw to aggro, fire shield: fire, cold resistance, tier II cold resist

    cycle: prot energy: cold, protection from the elements, protection from the elements: mass

    if wf use recon
    if pm have lich stuff up

    thats generally how its done
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    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
    cast fw to aggro, fire shield: fire, cold resistance, tier II cold resist

    cycle: prot energy: cold, protection from the elements, protection from the elements: mass

    if wf use recon
    if pm have lich stuff up

    thats generally how its done
    Oh, I know that's how it's done buff-wise... On Argo, most people kite the Shadows around. He was standing totally still surrounded by them. I've never seen anyone do that before. Perhaps they do on other servers?

    In regards to Junts' comment about there not being an increase to their movement speed- all the better. I still think that standing still is a better option than kiting based on what I saw tonight.

    Just wanted to throw it out there as another option to kiting.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phalaeo View Post
    Oh, I know that's how it's done buff-wise... On Argo, most people kite the Shadows around. He was standing totally still surrounded by them. I've never seen anyone do that before. Perhaps they do on other servers?

    In regards to Junts' comment about there not being an increase to their movement speed- all the better. I still think that standing still is a better option than kiting based on what I saw tonight.

    Just wanted to throw it out there as another option to kiting.
    it's not a new idea, it's just something not a lot of people have the gear for.

  6. #6
    Community Member furbyoats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    it's not a new idea, it's just something not a lot of people have the gear for.
    gear consists of standard end game hp for a caster to run epics....a tier II cold absorption item (only up to medium ingredients), and the ability to cast fire shield hot....not exactly gear intensive
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    To be fair the hp usually quoted as nescessary (what I heard anyhow) is 500. That is not imo standard endgame hp needed
    for epics. It might be hp usefull for the hard epics (eDQ, eOOB) but I've done both of those with 420 or so and survived
    just fine. Getting 500 hp's on a fleshie wizard is not something that is in general easy and usualy means sacrificing
    something unless you have a lot of gear. I know that WF can get around 600 with the right gear and a lot of base con
    but on a fleshie out of form this is generally not trivial

  8. #8
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by furbyoats View Post
    gear consists of standard end game hp for a caster to run epics....a tier II cold absorption item (only up to medium ingredients), and the ability to cast fire shield hot....not exactly gear intensive
    as was pointed out, there's a bit more to it than that. perhaps if i kept every single one of my characters on timer for shroud, it wouldn't be an issue at all... but quite frankly, i find shroud boring these days.

    furthermore, whether or not it's extremely hard to get, lots of people do in fact not have it. shroud HP tier 3 item on a caster? that's likely going to be your second item, at best, on a caster (first item is likely to be concordant op/SP item). furthermore, not all casters are warforged and have the hit points even with such an item... i might be able to get close to that if i farmed out the shroud to get an essence (again, boring to me), but even then i'd be a bit shy...

    rage/yugo pot gets me to 402, so shroud HP item is only 447. to compensate for lower HP (and lack of reliable self-healing while getting attacked constantly on my fleshy sorc) i would need more resistance to stay alive (or a dedicated full-time healer).

    simple fact is, a good kiter (not necessarily specifically a caster required) can keep the shadows off the group with no particular special gear required at all the vast majority of the time. yes, there will be mistakes made occasionally, but if you can do the raid without the gear... well, let's just say that i can probably trade the ingredients needed for the blank to get 1-2 large devil scales, or other gear i need, which in turn can become other things i might need. there's almost always some item i would like to be able to buy... tome pages for another skiver, boot ingredients for ToD, spell storing rings, large shroud ingredients for my alts, ingredients for the mabar event or risia festival, stat tomes, and so forth. making a shroud weapon specifically for 1 part of 1 raid that can be easily completed in other ways is just... well... not enticing. yes, i could make such a weapon, if i felt it was a priority... but it simply isn't a major priority, and that's just how it is. i can easily do the raid without such an expense anyways. given that most ToD groups i've been in have 2 casters, and there's not much else constructive for them to do in that quest, well... between having a primary kiter and a backup (and realistically, one of the two healers in the group could probably be a backup to the backup as well), you shouldn't really run into too many problems. occasionally, you get a bad situation and the kiter dies. i'm sure that happens for a tank occasionally too.

    i'm all for spending resources to get gear that's going to be useful in a variety of situations... a generic DR breaker of some kind is a great idea for any melee to carry, for example (metalline of pure good and/or min II seem to be the popular choices). but i wouldn't be shocked and disappointed to discover that a melee doesn't carry around a golf bag of debuff weapons (roaring, improved roaring, strength sapping, maladroit/bone breaking, weakening/enfeebling, wounding/puncturing, cursespewing, shattermantle, improved shattermantle, destruction, improved destruction, etc, etc, etc) even though sometimes having all of those might prove useful.

    kiting in ToD is something that lasts for usually a couple of minutes, and is done once per three days on any given character. for the amount of use i'd get out of a cold absorb weapon... nah, i can spend that elsewhere, getting things that in that same amount of time i'll use for a few hours of gameplay and make my gameplay experience a lot better as opposed to a little better.

  9. #9
    Community Member furbyoats's Avatar
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    think you missed the part of my post that said it could be made with medium shroud mats....if mediums are that terribly hard to come by then you must never run shroud...you could buy them for pretty much dirt cheap...

    even if it is a raid to only run once every 3 days..it is a role that you must fulfill for the raid to complete...having 25% xtra cold absorption on top of fireshield is pretty big. i didnt say take the item to tier 3, that gets into the realm of being silly.

    i made one for my caster a long time ago just to try the idea out (before we thought about tanking them) and even when straight kiting, this item will save your life...

    the problem with kiting is if a shadow gets up to you and you are running away in a straight line...and you turn...you run the risk of entering and exiting the aura multiple times, and that is what kills you, not the initial hit.

    i was backup kiting on my wf fvs yesterday and had to wing jump straight through a shadow because i was pinned down (on elite as well mind you) took some damage, didnt die.... because it was a minimization of impact.

    as far as being a fleshy and doing it...i dont think anyone said that it was necessarily possible all around...i have yet to see a fleshy pm try it...the point is...if you are a caster with high hp and self healing...this method is far easier and more reliable than kiting them in circles. a fleshy sorc does not fit in this category and would obviously be better off doing the kiting instead.

    just because you dont want to spend some items with a mediocre value to create an item that will benefit completions for your guild/static groups/pugs/yourself, does NOT mean that this is a bad idea. if you find shroud boring (yes...it is boring) that is fine, but the vast majority of players still run it to make items/farm mats for trade. and in doing so, acquire waaaaaaay too many small and medium mats to know what to do with...
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