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  1. #1
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Post Make epic crafting ingredients purchasable with epic tokens

    My proposal is to set up a system where you can purchase epic crafting ingredients with epic tokens. 10-20-30? The amount is up for debate. This would give players a clear cut path to upgrading their gear and it wouldn't require players to run the same epic quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and probably over and over again just to hope they got one ingredient that they desperately want. It would still take quite a bit of grinding and effort but would make epic crafting more desirable to a lot of people in my opinion since they know they WILL be getting the ingredient they need. They have a clear cut path. The ingredients could be bound to account as well making it a personal accomplishment to have the epic item because you couldn't just buy the scroll for instance. Opinions?

    *EDIT* To refine the idea more, how about after 20 runs of the epic quest that the item drops from (or designated quest for items that drop in areas like the blood stone in sands), your quest end reward will have your choice of shard, seal, or scroll. Does that seem fair? At the same time. Allow the ingredients to drop randomly as they currently do. Thoughts?
    Last edited by DethTrip; 04-05-2011 at 02:18 PM.
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  2. #2
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    THis is one of those suggestions I see over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and meh you get the point .

    Would you also advocate making stuff that drops from for example adq be purchasable with new "quest" tokens to stop you having to run that over and over for your torc etc ?
    Opinions in this post are likely not the actual opinion of the poster .

  3. #3
    Community Member tlstar's Avatar
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    Default ok sounds good but .....

    how do you plan on obtaining these epic tokens without running the same epics over and over ....? just had to ask .

  4. #4
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Well, they stated already that instead of specific scrolls we soon may get generic scrolls. Instead of needing to wait that this particular scroll drop you can use it for each and every epic item of that particular chain. So there will be changes to the epic crafting, but probably not via token buy out.
    * We have collectable bags, mind you, even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  5. #5
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryanmeerkat View Post
    THis is one of those suggestions I see over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and meh you get the point .

    Would you also advocate making stuff that drops from for example adq be purchasable with new "quest" tokens to stop you having to run that over and over for your torc etc ?
    Well, you have to run the quest over and over x 10 at least most of the time just to get the item. That is payment enough imo. All I know is the current system is not player friendly. It turns a lot of people away from epic and DDO. I'm all for ideas that keep the game interesting. Running the same quests over and over x 100 is not very interesting. Many people despise that grind and just give up.
    If you're having fun, then you're doing it right.

  6. #6
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethTrip View Post
    My proposal is to set up a system where you can purchase epic crafting ingredients with epic tokens. 10-20-30? The amount is up for debate. This would give players a clear cut path to upgrading their gear and it wouldn't require players to run the same epic quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and probably over and over again just to hope they got one ingredient that they desperately want. It would still take quite a bit of grinding and effort but would make epic crafting more desirable to a lot of people in my opinion since they know they WILL be getting the ingredient they need. They have a clear cut path. The ingredients could be bound to account as well making it a personal accomplishment to have the epic item because you couldn't just buy the scroll for instance. Opinions?
    They would have to fix the obvious exploits in bypassing content to farm tokens...



    Until then, no.

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  7. #7
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    what if they would choose to set tokens needed ratio high enough so you run same, but narrowed selection(easier) epics over and over and over and.... about as many times as currently, would it make you happier, knowing you need 250 runs to make xxx item?

    its not the mechanism thats flawed, it could be easily adjusted with changing drop rate, just admit it, you want those items quicker and with less grind, having clear tollbooth to go for wouldnt make it less grind.

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    making epic crafting fully token based would change it even sillier grindfest, where people pick most trivial epic quests and cycle farm em just for tokens, hows that more exciting?

  9. #9
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlstar View Post
    how do you plan on obtaining these epic tokens without running the same epics over and over ....? just had to ask .
    Well, currently, if you want the seal of the spectral gloves for instance, you have to run epic offering of blood over and over till you get it. With my suggestion, you could run many different epics and then go to the epic ingredients trader and turn in the tokens for the seal. You wouldn't rely solely on one quest but you would still have to run x number of epic quests to get it. Its kind of a trade off in that currently you may run epic offering of blood once and get it. You would have to run X number of epics to get it with my suggestion but you would know you were going to get it and you could run different epic quests to come up with those tokens. The other trade off is you are using up your tokens so you would have to run more epics for more tokens to upgrade slots on the gear. I would welcome this trade off.

    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Well, they stated already that instead of specific scrolls we soon may get generic scrolls. Instead of needing to wait that this particular scroll drop you can use it for each and every epic item of that particular chain. So there will be changes to the epic crafting, but probably not via token buy out.
    The scrolls are only 1/3 of the problem and to me less than that seeing how you can simply buy and trade them with people currently. Kinda takes away from the personal accomplishment of it too.
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  10. #10
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethTrip View Post
    ...

    The scrolls are only 1/3 of the problem and to me less than that seeing how you can simply buy and trade them with people currently. Kinda takes away from the personal accomplishment of it too.
    Well, this is probably only the first step of a change that they announced a while ago as an rework of epic and somehow you contradict yourself, as buying it in the store wouldn't probably be a personal accomplishment
    * We have collectable bags, mind you, even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  11. #11
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hecate355 View Post
    making epic crafting fully token based would change it even sillier grindfest, where people pick most trivial epic quests and cycle farm em just for tokens, hows that more exciting?
    You can only run those easy epics once a day. It would be less of a grind imo. Also, for people that have to pug epics, it would make it a more viable option. It's very hard to pug certain epic quests. I don't think people should be penalized for not having a high ranking guild that runs a lot of epic content. This idea would be a lot less of a headache than trying to put together an epic demon queen or von raid pug group. Running the same epics over and over will never be exciting either way.
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  12. #12
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Well, this is probably only the first step of a change that they announced a while ago as an rework of epic and somehow you contradict yourself, as buying it in the store wouldn't probably be a personal accomplishment
    The personal accomplishment is that you earned the tokens to give to the trader for the ingredients by doing the epic quests/raids. Not a contradiction at all.
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  13. #13
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    By the way, the change for the epic scrolls while mentioned on the PAX is not yet active on Lama:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    No changes have been made to Epic Scrolls for Update 9.

    We are considering making changes to the way that Epic Scrolls are handled in the future. We've got several different proposals that we're looking at. (One of which was making the scrolls typed by area.)
    * We have collectable bags, mind you, even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  14. #14
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    By the way, the change for the epic scrolls while mentioned on the PAX is not yet active on Lama:
    Which is all the more reason to help the devs out with ideas. I think the token idea would go a long way towards making epics desirable to many people. They would just have to iron out the details.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethTrip View Post
    You can only run those easy epics once a day. It would be less of a grind imo. Also, for people that have to pug epics, it would make it a more viable option. It's very hard to pug certain epic quests. I don't think people should be penalized for not having a high ranking guild that runs a lot of epic content. This idea would be a lot less of a headache than trying to put together an epic demon queen or von raid pug group. Running the same epics over and over will never be exciting either way.
    not signed, once a day, but on whole account, as the rewards are bta. half a people would never even attempt harder ones.
    Birthday event was classic example of what happened when folks only need tokens. Guess what epics were ran? house p, sometimes house d and von 1&2. While some may say form your own group, i may not be as easy if majority gets by spamming trivial ones.

    If you ask me, neither of solutions is good tho, i dont like random scroll assignment either, whole epics are full of artificial grind, low drop rate wasnt enough, they had to shuffle things with randomly assigned scrolls as well.

    maybe just maybe i could agree that change, as it already is quite bad, considering epic quest selection, but in current context it would kill several quests.

    i still dont mind spamming house p epics, cause i started really late with whole epic stuff so its quite fresh for me. but eventually it will go down the road of disgust, similar to some other quests/raids that i have done many times for completions.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery DethTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hecate355 View Post
    not signed, once a day, but on whole account, as the rewards are bta. half a people would never even attempt harder ones.
    Birthday event was classic example of what happened when folks only need tokens. Guess what epics were ran? house p, sometimes house d and von 1&2. While some may say form your own group, i may not be as easy if majority gets by spamming trivial ones.

    If you ask me, neither of solutions is good tho, i dont like random scroll assignment either, whole epics are full of artificial grind, low drop rate wasnt enough, they had to shuffle things with randomly assigned scrolls as well.

    maybe just maybe i could agree that change, as it already is quite bad, considering epic quest selection, but in current context it would kill several quests.

    i still dont mind spamming house p epics, cause i started really late with whole epic stuff so its quite fresh for me. but eventually it will go down the road of disgust, similar to some other quests/raids that i have done many times for completions.
    Ok then, how about this. Make is so after 20 runs of the epic quest the item drops from (or designated quest for items that drop in areas like the blood stone in sands), your quest end reward will have your choice of shard, seal, or scroll. Does that seem fair? At the same time. Allow the ingredients to drop randomly as they currently do. Thoughts?
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  17. #17
    Community Member Souless's Avatar
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    Default Problems

    Here is the difficulty in just using epic tokens as the generic money for epic gear:

    ALL EPIC QUESTS R NOT CREATED EQUAL!

    And this is the the problem..because some epics r way harder (ie eoob is much more difficult than say ANY OF THE HOUSE P OR D epics) not to mention the sheer volume of items in the desert. Makes getting the right desert epic scroll/shard/seal harder than acquiring ANY other epic loot.

    And to make matters worse, the token drop rate isn't properly scaled to difficulty.

    I don't really have a solution for u, my suggestion was allow us to trade non used seals/scrolls/shards from the area that they come from for the scrolls/seals/shards that we want...lets just say that the suggestion was met with the overall *oh-hum*/yawn and if u don't like epic grinding, quit ginding...that the forums trolls seem to love to post....

    I'm out....don't know why i keep comming back to the formus....cu guys in a few months....

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  18. #18
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlstar View Post
    how do you plan on obtaining these epic tokens without running the same epics over and over ....? just had to ask .
    Well, with this metod you would at least know that you where one epic token closer to the item you wanted.

  19. #19
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    No thanks on this suggestion, as it would just spit in the face of everyone who actually did the grinding and got their epic items.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Souless View Post
    Here is the difficulty in just using epic tokens as the generic money for epic gear:

    ALL EPIC QUESTS R NOT CREATED EQUAL!

    And this is the the problem..because some epics r way harder (ie eoob is much more difficult than say ANY OF THE HOUSE P OR D epics) not to mention the sheer volume of items in the desert. Makes getting the right desert epic scroll/shard/seal harder than acquiring ANY other epic loot.
    Turbine doesn't care. If you want epics from Sands, then you have to buy the Sands pack. If you want epics from Carnival, then you buy that pack. Also, the rate at which you acquire tokens matters. You could spend 1 month running Big Top everyday to get 30 tokens you need (say, for a blue slot augment). Or you could run 4-5 epics a day to get the 30 tokens you need in a week.

    The only differentiator I would add: Epic Dungeon Tokens for non-raid loot and Epic Raid Tokens for raid loot.

    Ultimately this won't get added, because there's no direct revenue generation from it.
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