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  1. #1
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    Default VAT Number & Feedback

    As we stated yesterday, the increased Euro and GBP pricing is due to VAT which we are now required to pay as we officially expand our services to Europe. For future reference our VAT number is: EU 826 015 089.

    We are excited to begin offering a full-fledged service to Europe and to enhance the game by bringing more players from around the world together to play DDO. As DDO continues to evolve your input on issues such as this is important and we have set up a new thread for you to provide constructive feedback. We look forward to working with you to make more improvements to our service over time.

    Thank you, and enjoy the game!

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Aurora1979's Avatar
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    Thank you.

    I dont think there was any (many) people on here actually moaning about paying the tax.... Incidentially, i do think its a little bit mental but then, no one blames turbine for that...

    All we wanted was to know it was legit and to be provided with the vat number, as this is your (turbines) "proof" that they are in fact making a payment to the tax man.

    FYI: I dont know ANYTHING about tax law... you could even of made that number up but im sure its all legitimate.


    EDIT:


    One question though.... will turbine be paying back tax since you took over from codemasters? If so, is this cost going to be passed down to us at a later date? If so, can we be assured that Turbine will FOREWARN us please.
    Last edited by Aurora1979; 04-01-2011 at 04:17 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuarterMasterM View Post
    As we stated yesterday, the increased Euro and GBP pricing is due to VAT which we are now required to pay as we officially expand our services to Europe. For future reference our VAT number is: EU 826 015 089.
    Because different countries in Europe have different VAT percentages, how will Turbine differentiate between those countries and does Turbine plan on charging different VAT amounts based on country?

    Also, how will Turbine determine whether a particular customer is subject to the VAT?

  4. #4
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Thanks QMM!

    I'll get the first round for you and Jerry.


    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  5. #5
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuarterMasterM View Post
    For future reference our VAT number is: EU 826 015 089.
    Many thanks QM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Marewood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuarterMasterM View Post
    As we stated yesterday, the increased Euro and GBP pricing is due to VAT which we are now required to pay as we officially expand our services to Europe. For future reference our VAT number is: EU 826 015 089.

    We are excited to begin offering a full-fledged service to Europe and to enhance the game by bringing more players from around the world together to play DDO. As DDO continues to evolve your input on issues such as this is important and we have set up a new thread for you to provide constructive feedback. We look forward to working with you to make more improvements to our service over time.

    Thank you, and enjoy the game!
    The VAT number and the deducted amount needs ot be listed on the DDO store bill and not on some forum post after two days of flaming. You could have avoided all the hassle on the forums by puting this information on the receipt where it belongs in the first place.

  7. #7
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    Because different countries in Europe have different VAT percentages, how will Turbine differentiate between those countries and does Turbine plan on charging different VAT amounts based on country?
    I thought it was pretty well established in the other threads that under the distance rules unless they sell more than 100,000 euro of goods to a particular country the default (UK) is the correct rate to legally use under the treaty.

  8. #8
    The Hatchery BruceTheHoon's Avatar
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    I'd still like to know, how does Turbine determine, who's from the VAT obliged countries and who's not. Just out of curiosity.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuarterMasterM View Post
    We are excited to begin offering a full-fledged service to Europe and to enhance the game by bringing more players from around the world together to play DDO...
    Enhancing the game by raising the prices. That's an interesting way of putting it. It's not like we were unable to play before...

  9. #9
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceTheHoon View Post
    I'd still like to know, how does Turbine determine, who's from the VAT obliged countries and who's not. Just out of curiosity.


    Enhancing the game by raising the prices. That's an interesting way of putting it. It's not like we were unable to play before...
    HM Revenue & Customs

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
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  10. #10
    The Hatchery BruceTheHoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    It might feel witty, but HM Revenue & Customs doesn't really state how Turbine determines where I'm from.

  11. #11
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the website of the European Commission
    The Directive gives a number of options to a non-EU business which finds it has to collect and account for VAT. The choices for achieving compliance include establishing within the EU or registering as a non-established supplier in each Member State of the EU where taxable activities are conducted.

    The Directive however also introduces a new special simplified scheme whereby non-EU suppliers who are affected by its provisions may choose to register with a single VAT authority in a Member State of their choice. Under this special scheme, all the procedures they need to fulfil - registration, payment and reporting - will be handled through the tax administration which they have selected, which will also give them guidance on how to meet their obligations.

    The non-EU e-commerce business using this special simplified registration scheme will be offered a set of procedures which are easier to operate and more business-friendly than the existing rules for non-resident businesses generally. The single registration model provides a streamlined set of obligations that can be easily completed online without the need for a fiscal representative or for any physical presence.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceTheHoon View Post
    It might feel witty, but HM Revenue & Customs doesn't really state how Turbine determines where I'm from.
    From the same webpage:

    The Commission and Member States are of the view that the measures expected of suppliers should be proportionate (these are mainly low value transactions) and realistic in the light of a technology that is still developing. For the most part, deciding tax on the basis of a customer declaration, which is potentially verifiable against a credit card billing address or by geo-location tools, is both acceptable and in line with business practice.

    The national administrations will also explain how to account for this tax, how to prepare and submit a declaration or return and how payment should be made. As a result, the VAT rate applicable to non-EU suppliers' sales to consumers will in any Member State be the same as the rate charged by a local supplier. The country of registration will be responsible for re-allocating the VAT revenue to the country of the customer on the basis of the information supplied by the non-resident business.
    Do I really need to point out it was not Turbine who came up with that system but the European Commission and any complains about how it is unfair to businesses and/or end-customers would probably be better addressed with them?
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ducaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuarterMasterM View Post
    As we stated yesterday, the increased Euro and GBP pricing is due to VAT which we are now required to pay as we officially expand our services to Europe. For future reference our VAT number is: EU 826 015 089.
    This is a good step but I am still not personally happy. That VAT number does not match any format that I was personally aware of OR was able to find by a few minutes web search.

    Given the arguments already raised, I too would have assumed that Turbine would have registered through the UK and had therefor a GB prefix not the (to me at least) mysterious EU prefix.

    Using the European VAT number online validation tool the number above is rejected from all three of the main countries Turbine has obviously dealings with (UK,Germany & France) So I remain confused and unsatisfied. Can you clarify further please Q-M?

  13. #13
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuarterMasterM View Post
    As we stated yesterday, the increased Euro and GBP pricing is due to VAT which we are now required to pay as we officially expand our services to Europe. For future reference our VAT number is: EU 826 015 089.

    We are excited to begin offering a full-fledged service to Europe and to enhance the game by bringing more players from around the world together to play DDO. As DDO continues to evolve your input on issues such as this is important and we have set up a new thread for you to provide constructive feedback. We look forward to working with you to make more improvements to our service over time.

    Thank you, and enjoy the game!
    Call me crazy, but if I were to ask 100 European players if they'd rather not have the client localized but instead save the VAT, what would you imagine they'd say?

    (Personally, I'm curious, but I do know what *I*'d say )
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  14. #14
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducaster View Post
    Using the European VAT number online validation tool the number above is rejected from all three of the main countries Turbine has obviously dealings with (UK,Germany & France) So I remain confused and unsatisfied. Can you clarify further please Q-M?
    From 45 seconds of googling:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_a...ication_number

    "Foreign companies that trade with non-enterprises in the EU may have a VATIN starting with "EU" instead of a country code.[1]"
    Devs: Thanks for making Druids available to VIPs without the pack. This more than anything, has made me want to buy the pack.

  15. #15
    Community Member Lorien_the_First_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solmage View Post
    From 45 seconds of googling:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_a...ication_number

    "Foreign companies that trade with non-enterprises in the EU may have a VATIN starting with "EU" instead of a country code.[1]"
    What I find facinating about this process is how quickly people assume Turbine is running a scam and flout how well they know their laws and how Turbine is breaking them. Then in 45 seconds you get the answer for them lol.

    Seriously people, do you try to verify every VAT number at every store you go to?

  16. #16
    The Hatchery BruceTheHoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Do I really need to point out it was not Turbine who came up with that system but the European Commission and any complains about how it is unfair to businesses and/or end-customers would probably be better addressed with them?
    Nobody is asking you to, probably because even calling that 'more than abundantly clear' would be an understatement.

    What you could point out is, where in that quoted text does it say how exactly Turbine determines where I'm from (is it geo-location, CC information or do they just believe what I've written in my account's profile - yes, I've read the link the first time it was posted in another thread). But this is a rhetorical question, since the quoted text does not contain that information, so you don't have to point that out either.


    Let me rephrase my question and put it into context:
    If I were to physically go out of EU, would the prices drop (= geo-location), or stay the same (= CC information).

  17. #17
    Community Member ShotByBothSides's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for answering one of the commonly asked questions about the VAT number

    It would be good to have answers too to:

    a) How the TP prices are calculated taking into account VAT?
    b) A statement of your intentions regarding VAT receipts for the purchase of TPs.

    I think once that is understood we can all move on and make individual decisions about whether or not TPs are still good value for our money.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorien_the_First_One View Post
    What I find facinating about this process is how quickly people assume Turbine is running a scam and flout how well they know their laws and how Turbine is breaking them. Then in 45 seconds you get the answer for them lol.

    Seriously people, do you try to verify every VAT number at every store you go to?
    What I find fascinating is that some people actually think that Turbine are scamming folk and keeping the money for themselves. Saying you're charging tax and then keeping it for your own company is called fraud and folk in Turbine would likely do jail time once caught because lets face it sooner or later someone in officialdom either in the states or UK would eventually notice that no tax money was being handed over.

    Turbine like most other online games companies will occassionally bend the truth, change their minds, not tell us stuff that they should etc etc but if anyone thinks theyre going to commit such an easily proveable fraud...

    Having said that they did totally screw up how they handled this - should have been announced well in advance of the change and the reasons / calculations etc made plain from the outset, so from that point of view they only have themselves to blame for all the fuss even if some of it is way over the top.

  19. #19
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Do I really need to point out it was not Turbine who came up with that system but the European Commission and any complains about how it is unfair to businesses and/or end-customers would probably be better addressed with them?
    No but you should point out that there is no such thing as a "international tax law" (Thus why they weren't breaking the law before when they sold vip or other things to europeans over the years without taxes)

    Complying with the european commission is entirely up to turbine. As a amercian company, they fully have the right to not charge or pay VAT, or any other countries taxes.

    Americas who buy from american companies on the internets have laws for that sure. Internationally? No.

    It's something they chose to do, to be friendly with the EU comission. Not a law.

    I'm canadian, and I certianly don't a pay a cent of tax to you guys for anything I purchase online on any (american) .com site. Even tho canada is friends with the US, we don't have to follow your laws internationally. What I do have to pay sometimes are import fees. But as of yet, the US has yet to make up a law to charge import feats on digital goods, so I don't pay them for that.

    It's a simple rule when it comes to international things:
    Your laws are not our laws, keep that in mind. What turbine is doing is purely by there own decision.

  20. #20
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Americas who buy from american companies on the internets have laws for that sure. Internationally? No.

    It's something they chose to do, to be friendly with the EU comission. Not a law.
    So, um... Microsoft and Google comply with decisions that the EU hands down just because they like to be friendly? That seems about as likely as the "forward this and Bill Gates will send you $100" email.

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