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  1. #1
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    Default Should I take levels in a different class?

    GUIDE
    Hello, im am stille, your resident semi-expert on DDO. Lately while running around i see a lot of builds that are perfect examples of BAD multiclasses, such as a 10/10 sorc/cleric. In this thread, i will attempt to explain when and how to multiclass.

    Remember, general advice, if you are a new player, a pure [insert class] is a good, solid build, that is simpler to play.

    What is multiclassing?
    it is taking a class different from your base class, any character can have levels from three classes.

    Why are some multiclasses "bad" and some "good"? how do i know? when should i multi?
    Remember, when you play ddo, and your character is leveling up, he/she continually gets stronger and progresses, s/he will fight stronger monsters, and more of them.

    This is why multiclassing can hit so hard. A character is more than the sum of his or her levels, and each multi level must progress your character. A level 20 fighter will wipe 3,4,even 5 level 10 fighters with ease, he is not 2 level 10s, he is more. A multiclass must also be stronger than the sum of its parts

    Lets go back to that build i saw, the 10 cleric/10 sorc. This build is severly flawed because the cleric adds nothing to the sorc, the sorc adds nothing to the cleric. So the result is not stronger than its parts. Your result is the equivalent of someone with the skills of two level 10s. He cannot outheal a lv 10 cleric, he cannot outcast a level 10 sorc. His only advantage is some sp. In short, he is great for level 10 quests, but not the Tower of Despair. Against a level 10 cleric+ a level 10 sorc, he is evenly matched, maybe at a disadvantage.

    So lets move to useful multiclasses, a great example being, say, ftr 12/barb 6/rog 2. The fighter adds Kensai II, the barb adds barb rage, the rogue adds both sneak attack, and evasion. your result is a str boost kensai II fighter with a barb frenzy burst with additional sneak attack,and the ability to dodge spells. A lv 12 fighter, a level 6 barb, and a level 2 rogue would die in seconds.

    So lets move to common/ useful multiclasses:
    Multiples of 6 of given classes- Give prestige enhancements, powerful enhancements that increase your attacking, etc. ability. Be sure to see that these have synergies or help your existing character.
    note: all Prestige enhancements have various requirements, check them

    Rogue 2- gives evasion and sneak attack damage, also, on the levels in which you take rogue have UMD (Use Magical Device) as a class skill, which is also handy. (Use Magical Device has the capability to give access to many scrolls like teleport and heal with enough points)
    Monk 2- gives evasion and 2 more feats, (bonus feat can be used on toughness too)
    Various levels of rogue- Usually applies to a deeper splash like 7 rog, at certain levels rog get more sneak attack damage
    Various levels of monk- mostly useful if monk is your main class, at certain levels monk fist damage goes up.
    2 of other classes- sometimes happen, most commonly with a 16/2/2 bard, not advised unless you read up on them a lot
    1 splash of other classes- most often happens with fighter or barb (who give basic haste boost and rage boost respectively), usually part of a build with odd (as in not divisible by 2) class groupings, mostly the rogue 7 or rogue 13.
    Last edited by stille_nacht; 06-17-2011 at 09:49 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Good post succinct to the point and easy to understand. Now if the people who build lvl 10wiz/10 sorc combos
    ever came to the forums we'd have a winner.

  3. #3
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    If anyone is asking "Should I take levels in a different class?" for a character already created, the 99.9% sure answer should be "No".

    In DDO any character is way better if planned from the very beginning, and this is particularly true for multiclassing. Use planner to create it, come back to forums with a proposed build and ask for feedback.

    Or better still, browse the forums and find an already proven tested build. Have to consider also that some of the posted multiclass builds are created by (and for) long time players with a vast amount of farmed raid/epic gear and tomes and could not work as efficiently as intended without those

  4. #4
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    yeah, my general advise to new players looking to multi is that pure class is probably easier

    but then again, some really want to, so gotta provide :P
    adversity is something we face every day - for a true test, give someone power

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  5. #5
    Community Member UniqueToo's Avatar
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    If only turbine would implement a good way to multiclass casters.

    I would not recommend trying it under the current system. There is a horrible inbalance between melee and caster multiclassing.
    Casters should be able to multiclass too!
    Give us our own version of a BAB! - Publication:Unearthed Arcana/Magic Rating

  6. #6
    Community Member DragonTroy's Avatar
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    it might also be worth mentioning that any lvls of rogue makes UMD a class skill and can put a full rank into it from that point on. i understand that UMD isnt a new player thing most of the time and this is a guide kinda to new players, but its worth mentioning. and generally build wise and multiclass with rogue lvls get more skill points if they take first lvl as a rogue

  7. #7
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonTroy View Post
    it might also be worth mentioning that any lvls of rogue makes UMD a class skill and can put a full rank into it from that point on. i understand that UMD isnt a new player thing most of the time and this is a guide kinda to new players, but its worth mentioning. and generally build wise and multiclass with rogue lvls get more skill points if they take first lvl as a rogue
    good point, for teleport scrolls if nothing else :P, weird that i forgot UMD...
    adversity is something we face every day - for a true test, give someone power

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  8. #8
    Community Member artandor's Avatar
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    really nice guide, i think alot of newcommers apreciate it

    however, i think u should add stat alocation: aka what classes get bonuses out of wich?
    like for instance 18 wiz 2 rogue: dex gives ac to wiz/twf? int gives skill points to rogue, and so on.

    just thought it would be nice to have that one in ur miniguide

    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueToo View Post
    If only turbine would implement a good way to multiclass casters.

    I would not recommend trying it under the current system. There is a horrible inbalance between melee and caster multiclassing.
    not if you kno what u are doing, for instance 17 clr/2 monk/1 fighter (my favorite <3) is very well in both healing and melee
    there are also builds that goes for arcane/melee like ive seen 18 wiz 2 fighter, i had also 16 bard 4 fighter, etc etc
    Last edited by artandor; 05-22-2011 at 05:15 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artandor View Post
    not if you kno what u are doing, for instance 17 clr/2 monk/1 fighter (my favorite <3) is very well in both healing and melee
    there are also builds that goes for arcane/melee like ive seen 18 wiz 2 fighter, i had also 16 bard 4 fighter, etc etc
    its really hard to work a comprehensive stat guide :O, best just to ask people about that, maybe ill add "stat benchmarks" to it (stats required for certain feats)

    also, i think he was talking about multi-ing different caster classes together (e.g 15 clr/ 5 wiz)
    adversity is something we face every day - for a true test, give someone power

    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
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  10. #10
    Community Member artandor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
    its really hard to work a comprehensive stat guide :O, best just to ask people about that, maybe ill add "stat benchmarks" to it (stats required for certain feats)

    also, i think he was talking about multi-ing different caster classes together (e.g 15 clr/ 5 wiz)
    aye if its 2 diferent spellcaster classes = bad idea
    worst idea ive heared is cleric fvs...... no, really bad idea!

    and about stats, i ment like sugestion on starting stats.. aka if u want twf build start with 16, blablabla, if u want wizzie start at 14? or something, blablabla

    hope u kno what i meen

    although i bet u can make a use of 1 wiz level on any caster (for bonus metamagic feat) but not for spells themselves...
    Last edited by artandor; 05-23-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Tinco's Avatar
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    Multiclassing is probably one of the best features of DnD and DDO. It's like a game in the game, it's risky but if done properly you can get great rewards. Some of the most powerful meleebuilds in DDO are true multiclasses like the Blitz or the Exploiter and you could write books regarding multiclassing. Some aspects (I think) your post misses are:

    1. Multiclassing or Splashing?

    Splashing is the little brother of multiclassing. Splashing means adding one or two levels of another class to your main class to achieve certain goals. Note that splashing makes it impossible to get the capstone for your main class. This is to be considered closely since some capstones are very powerful and splashing would yield less synergy than just taking 20 levels of one class. Notable examples of splashing are:

    - 2 levels of rogue for evasion
    - 1-2 levels of rogue for trapskills and/or UMD
    - 2 levels of monk for evasion
    - 1-2 levels of monk for bonus feats and/or wisdom to ac and/or unarmed animation
    - 1-2 levels of fighter for bonus feats
    - one level of barbarian for faster movement and rage
    - 2 levels of paladin for cha to saves

    There are more but it's apparent that splashing and multiclassing in general is more common with melee classes than with casters. Casters know two common splashes imo: The Wizard(18)/Rogue(2) and the Cleric(17-19)/Monk(1-3). So if you plan to multiclass/splash your caster be very careful, it's even harder and less forgiving than multiclassing melee.

    tl;dr: When you splash, watch your capstone!


    2. Exit points for multiclassing?

    Multiclassing is all about synergy. You want to leave class progressions at convenient points and these points are determined by enhancements and class features.

    - 6, 12 and 18 are levels where you can get new tiers of prestige enhancements, most of them are very powerful and sometimes enough to warrant multiclassing on their own. These levels apply to all classes (save 18 for pre's that have no 3rd tier yet) and are the most common exit points in multiclassing.

    - Class Features are the other major thing to note when exiting a class. Rogues for example get sneak attack damage on odd levels so it's often worth exiting the rogue class at an odd level. Monks have unarmed progression and getting another step of unarmed damage might be worth it. Rangers, Bards and Paladins get new spell levels and that might form an appropriate exit point, too. Saves and BAB (base attack bonus) can be considered too. Enhancements aside from pre's also need a look, sometimes it's worth postponing the exit point to a level where you can get an exceptionally powerful enhancement (like divine might, level 4 boosts, healing amp, etc.).


    3. Borderline syndrome?

    Watching the 'borders' of your build is the last and most difficult step in 'theorycrafting' a successful build. Depending on the number of classes you use you will have one or two of those points where the classes 'clash'. Is the 13th level of warrior now better for my build than the second level of rogue? Do I need level 18 with my cl-onk for the tier 3 pre or do I value the healing fists from monk 3 higher than that? This is where it gets really tricky sometimes and you have to carefully consider the options. In a game as diverse as DDO the answer in close calls is very often 'it depends on the situation'.


    4. The big picture?

    Afterall, multiclassing is like getting a custom tailored suit - When and where do you want to wear it?

    What are my goals with the build? Soloing? Raiding? Posing in the harbor?
    Do I try to get a maxed build or is it ok for me to play a semi-optimal build for some parts of the game?
    Do I multiclass to alleviate weaknesses of my main class or do I try to make the strong points even stronger?
    How will the build play out while leveling? Will it come together early or late?
    Do I have a leveling order that allows for the planned feat/tome/enhancement order?
    If the build needs special equipment, do I already have that?

    I's all about synergy between the classes you take and between the build and your playstyle. Form some ideas to a build and don't be hesitant to throw some parts of that idea away if it doesn't fit. And always do it on paper first.
    Last edited by Tinco; 05-25-2011 at 02:34 PM. Reason: added point 3

  12. #12
    Halfling Hero phalaeo's Avatar
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    I included a section in my Cleric Build Guide called "What does X levels get me?"

    It's basically a breakdown of what 1-3 levels of X class will give, and is available here:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...71&postcount=6

    Feel free to use it in your post (with credit) if you feel it will help.
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