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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    There are a couple of issues with going FvS instead of cleric:

    • Your spell progression is one level lower, which means if you take more than two non-FvS levels, you lose lvl 9 spells. Given how feat-constrained this build is, losing a feat is a tough call; but so is not having Mass Heal on a healer.
    • On the monk version, having high WIS benefits both your AC and ranged to-hit (Zen Archery); if you go for a FvS who dump-stats WIS, you lose out on both. You'll also hurt your DCs, limiting your versatility; my build should have reasonably high DCs.
    • Obviously, you lose Radiant Servant, which is a pretty nice feature for a healer.

    On the upside, FvS get a lot more SPs, of course, and if you go Silver Flame you boost your longbow dmg. So there are definite tradeoffs.

    I haven't really thought about combining artificer & cleric, but what you're describing is quite different from my build, not least because AA & crossbows don't mix. I also haven't figured out if rune arms do enough to be worth an arty splash instead of, say, monk.
    True about the FvS spell levels. I guess the question comes to do as you point out, what is more mana efficent going FvS and having a butt load or goin the cleric route and micromanaging all your heals.

    I personally chose neither and went some screwed up 14 barb/4 rang/ 2 fighter build. 800-900 point manyshot arrows falling over the place is nice to watch.

  2. #22
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I've done bowbarian builds before too: barb 12 / rgr 6 / ftr 2 works out best, IMHO, though you're still really short on feats.

  3. #23
    Community Member nat_1's Avatar
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    Thought I'd stop in and say I'm really enjoying the monk 2 version. I have him to 14 and really enjoy the added benefit of evasion and running around Sands and GH with AC in the 50s. Divine Power + Manyshot is also fun.

    I was in a group that was trying to short man Elite Demon Queen because it wouldn't fill. We kept wiping because I was the only healer and couldn't keep up at the end when she goes nuts. We got her down to a sliver twice. I was apologizing and a couple of people said they couldn't believe how survivable the build was, like they expected it to be over a lot sooner without 2 divine's to raise each other from the blades.

    Another nice moment was when we had a disconnect that took our party to 4 in PoP and I discovered that the room bosses took stat damage from my WoP bow. We didn't have the dps otherwise, but after Manyshot with con damage the bosses dropped quickly.

    There have been a couple of situations that took forever, but the survivability, kiting (more recently with BB of course), burst dps, and divine punishment let me get out of what would have been a wipe.

    I like this build so much because with moderate levels of Dex (Manyshot) and Str (capped by Ranger dili) you can pretty much call it SAD with Wis. To-hit, AC, and casting stat all in one.

    I've got the link for this thread in my toon's bio because after I took that single wiz level I started to get funny looks. PM conversations when I hit LFMs go faster when I post the build. Then they know I have a plan and didn't just take a wiz level just so I can put on my robe and wizard hat.

    unbongwah, do you have anything interesting cooking with the changes to 10k stars?
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  4. #24
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    First off, my ego and I thank you for the compliments! I'm glad to know someone's enjoying one of my builds. I hope for your sake it gets even better when you hit 15 (cleric 12 / monk 2 / wiz 1) and have both RS II auras & an extra lvl 6 spell slot.

    Second - no, I haven't cooked up anything special yet involving 10K Stars, or at least nothing involving cleric (or FvS). The problem is 10K requires monk 6, so a monk 6 / cleric (or FvS) 12+ build is automatically in "novelty gimp" territory. The other problem is, again, feat shortage, esp. if I wanted Ninja Spy in the mix. OTOH, Manyshot + 10K Stars + Shadow Fade + lvl 6 spells does sound pretty cool...

    I've got an elf monk 12 / rgr 6 / ftr 2 AA in the works (currently rgr 6 / monk 4 / ftr 1 IIRC), but she's not anything everyone else isn't already doing.

  5. #25
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    I know I'm digging up a pretty old thread here but I'm just back to DDO after liong break (didn;t transfer my account so starting again!) and am interested in ranged builds.

    One question I have; Is your to-hit high enough with the first two builds? You have an average dex and few enhancements to hit?

    I ask because I'm trying to put together my own divine version and trying to juggle the compromises that inevitably come up beyween feats, class levels and enhancements. The bonuses to hit from elf are very tempting but ulitmately I'm not sure they're worth choosig elf for alone.

    Cheers

    Bradley

  6. #26
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    These builds are as they don't take into account the new 10k stars enhancement available at monk 6 which takes the premise to the next level.

    I've fleshed out some builds in this thread based on various classes including a cleric iteration.
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  7. #27
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    I like your builds but currently I only have access to 32 point builds and no helf (although I'm considering buying it and monk just to try out the build!).

    Hap

  8. #28
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    i'm currently running a 34 point elf with a tweaked version of the17cler/2monk/1wiz version.

    currently 15. lovin' it!

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  9. #29
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazarduk View Post
    One question I have; Is your to-hit high enough with the first two builds? You have an average dex and few enhancements to hit?
    Zen Archery lets you use WIS instead of DEX for to-hit; and since this is a WIS-based build, between that and a few buffs, your to-hit should be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    These builds are as they don't take into account the new 10k stars enhancement available at monk 6 which takes the premise to the next level.
    Despite the name, the Radiant Archer isn't an archer who happens to cast spells; she's a caster who happens to use a bow in her "downtime," as it were. Spellcasting was always intended to be her primary focus; so sacrificing lvl 8&9 spells was not an option. It's also why I don't make the DEX & feat investment to get Imp Precise Shot.

  10. #30
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Zen Archery lets you use WIS instead of DEX for to-hit; and since this is a WIS-based build, between that and a few buffs, your to-hit should be fine.

    Despite the name, the Radiant Archer isn't an archer who happens to cast spells; she's a caster who happens to use a bow in her "downtime," as it were. Spellcasting was always intended to be her primary focus; so sacrificing lvl 8&9 spells was not an option. It's also why I don't make the DEX & feat investment to get Imp Precise Shot.
    I played the concept at cap and in epics and didn't find it to be strong enough, as you describe in the OP, gimp. I'm hopeful that as a DPS build with 10k stars, improved precise shot and DP that it might work better, oh well, see when I get there.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Talon_Oakenleaf's Avatar
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    I have my own build of an AA/radiant as well. At level 20 with gear he has 2166sp and just under 400hp (more hp would be nice). What I would like to warn everyone about is that most people expect you to heal. So not having mass heal untill level 20 really limits your group choices as that is what is expected of you. I know most people will say mass heal over heals anyway and I would agree on a pure cleric, but on these builds enhancement points are scarce so very little goes into your healing enhancement lines so it effects your mass cures. Your mostly carrying a bow so when you through that heal you might need to equip other weapons/rods first for devotion etc. Saying all this, I would point out thatit was alot more fun for me to play my build this way then his first life pure cleric. have fun everyone!

  12. #32
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Oakenleaf View Post
    I have my own build of an AA/radiant as well. At level 20 with gear he has 2166sp and just under 400hp (more hp would be nice). What I would like to warn everyone about is that most people expect you to heal. So not having mass heal untill level 20 really limits your group choices as that is what is expected of you. I know most people will say mass heal over heals anyway and I would agree on a pure cleric, but on these builds enhancement points are scarce so very little goes into your healing enhancement lines so it effects your mass cures. Your mostly carrying a bow so when you through that heal you might need to equip other weapons/rods first for devotion etc. Saying all this, I would point out thatit was alot more fun for me to play my build this way then his first life pure cleric. have fun everyone!
    This was my experience as well. It was my first capped healer and I worked hard to make it work doing such things as solo healing shroud and vod and healed an eOOB (didn't own any other epic packs). The DPS was pretty marginal at level 20 and the bow didn't contribute CC as didn't have IPS.

    It was 20 seconds of manyshot and then healer duties. Unfortunately, considering the investment required to make the bow do even this much, it wasn't worth it in the scheme of things.
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  13. #33
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazarduk View Post
    I like your builds but currently I only have access to 32 point builds and no helf (although I'm considering buying it and monk just to try out the build!).
    Have a look at the original Radiant Archer, then; it was a 28-pt elf. I'd probably change it a lot now - maybe go WIS-based instead of STR-based - but it gives you some idea how to "downgrade" the concept.

  14. #34
    Community Member ka0t1c1sm's Avatar
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    I've been looking at your build as a possible second life for my Cleric. I posted the build here and was hoping I could get some feedback from the master.

    Since I'm going with Zen Archery, would I be better off dropping some DEX and putting more into CHA to help with # of turns for Bursts/Aura?

    Thanks for the great build idea!
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  15. #35
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Have a look at the original Radiant Archer, then; it was a 28-pt elf. I'd probably change it a lot now - maybe go WIS-based instead of STR-based - but it gives you some idea how to "downgrade" the concept.
    Not sure how original it is ... I seem to remember it just being a rip off of one of my builds; funny that my original build was wisdom based which you disapproved of at the time, glad to see that you changed your mind.

    As far as current game goes, 10k Stars enhancement all the way (so 13 cleric/6 monk/1 wizard).
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka0t1c1sm View Post
    I've been looking at your build as a possible second life for my Cleric. I posted the build here and was hoping I could get some feedback from the master.

    Since I'm going with Zen Archery, would I be better off dropping some DEX and putting more into CHA to help with # of turns for Bursts/Aura?

    Thanks for the great build idea!

    dropping dex? no. you need it to qualify for manyshot. it doesn't need to be any higher than it is, tho. the only other thoughts i have are my personal preference on stats/feats/classes, so not sure if they are relevant.

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  17. #37
    Community Member ka0t1c1sm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katz View Post
    dropping dex? no. you need it to qualify for manyshot.
    Thanks for pointing that out! Almost forgot about that.
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  18. #38
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Not sure how original it is ... I seem to remember it just being a rip off of one of my builds . . .
    "Ripoff" is so harsh; I prefer the term "tribute." And I did credit you at the time.
    . . . funny that my original build was wisdom based which you disapproved of at the time, glad to see that you changed your mind.
    Your build was a 34-pt HE; mine was a 28-pt elf. On the latter, I thought stats would be spread too thin to do a WIS-based AA.
    As far as current game goes, 10k Stars enhancement all the way (so 13 cleric/6 monk/1 wizard).
    It's a fine concept, but if it's got less than 17 cleric lvls, it's no longer a "real" cleric, IMHO; we're firmly in flavor build territory at that point. The Radiant Archer was always intended to be a cleric first, archer second; I tried to minimize the sacrifices involved in adding AA. The bow is just something she whips out when she has nothing better to do.

  19. #39
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    "Ripoff" is so harsh; I prefer the term "tribute." And I did credit you at the time.
    Your build was a 34-pt HE; mine was a 28-pt elf. On the latter, I thought stats would be spread too thin to do a WIS-based AA.
    It's a fine concept, but if it's got less than 17 cleric lvls, it's no longer a "real" cleric, IMHO; we're firmly in flavor build territory at that point. The Radiant Archer was always intended to be a cleric first, archer second; I tried to minimize the sacrifices involved in adding AA. The bow is just something she whips out when she has nothing better to do.
    When I posted the original build half-elf wasn't released yet so it was definitely elf and was 32 point to reflect unlocking it for the first time

    Having played the version with 17-18 cleric levels I can firmly say that it isn't a viable build at cap for anything more than than normal raids or easy epics. Too much sacrifice for too little gain (due to global cooldown and lower SP pool - which would be even worse on strength build). On the other hand a 13 cleric/6 monk build gives up any pretense of being a healer (though still has 3 mass cures for the normal raids and easy epics mentioned above) and focuses on Divine Punishment and continual bow DPS (swapping between 10k stars and manyshot). Still possible to scroll heal, kite and fill other niche roles.
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  20. #40
    Community Member BTIGER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Zen Archery lets you use WIS instead of DEX for to-hit; and since this is a WIS-based build, between that and a few buffs, your to-hit should be fine.
    Zen Archery seems to be a broken feat right now, at least it is so on my cleric who took it. Take a look and let us know what you see.
    I have a feeling it works if you have monk levels though, I had a cleric with monk splash who had it for awhile and it looked ok (could be wrong though, memory is funny).

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