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  1. #41
    Community Member Dragaer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    I'm thinking this is to go hand-in-hand with both classes now having PrEs that allow them dirt-cheap SLAs.
    Sorcs and Archmage only. Pale masters use HP's for their "SLA". Do they get HP regen?

  2. #42
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    Bye arcane casters as we know it then.

    I hope the new version of them is viable.

  3. #43
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gol View Post
    I sense it's time to LR back into a melee with no-save damage spells again (with another feat to burn since extend is useless).
    Which spells exactly?
    I think the main tactic with said build was wal of fire.. It now has a save.

    If anything, the changes will make having a high DC more important then ever.

    Sure insta kills gain a long cooldown, but also keep in mind the variety of insta kills that actually work will expand.
    Currently you got:
    FoD, Wail
    New DDO:
    FoD, Wail, Cirlcle of Death, Power Word Kill
    So 4 spells with longer cooldowns vs 2 spells with very short cooldowns. Exactly how many will we be able to get off in a given time? Not sure but I bet it wont be as bad as you make out.. And im sure someone can/will calculated that.

    Even if its slightly less. The kill spells all gained alternate effects that work even on a same, thus adding some damage, if not killing thru damage.

    My bet will be we go back to pre epic state in terms of the best builds:
    1: Easy route: Insta killers. Some CC. Still bad at nuking. Generally palemasters.
    2: Difficult route: Nuke spec. Some CC. Some insta killing, but not a lot. Generally elemental savants.

  4. #44
    The Hatchery Aurora1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    Regarding Wall of fire:
    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Wall_of_Fire

    Seems like it is moving in line with PnP.
    Just sayin'.
    how so? I dont get your comparison.... Its been 15yrs or more since i played PnP but... if i remeber right, 1 round is approx 1 min... so thats 20 mins duration for a capped arcane + concentration, which is probably in the 30-40's or more..... so, duration wise, it doesnt seem the same.

    also, no mention on d20 of a reflex save....

    NB:.... obviously, im not suggesting we should get 50 min firewalls I get that a berf was due... just seems a very large nerf with not alot to replace it with. Ill wait till it goes live but from what ive read, if it all goes as suggested, then, for me, an arcanes no longer a char i want to play.
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  5. #45
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragaer View Post
    Sorcs and Archmage only. Pale masters use HP's for their "SLA". Do they get HP regen?
    I believe its called "Death Aura" or something like that. Maybe lesser Death Aura will be cheap enough to be cast-able with the recharging SP. /shrug

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifespawn View Post
    Melee casters can 100% count out that first tick of damage and hope that the ghosts and things that phase don't get a reflex save every time they come back in or they are screwed.
    Why are we assuming that the spell having a reflex saves means that all mobs will beat that save? Isn't reflex the lowest of all saves on mobs, on average?
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  7. #47
    Community Member Dragaer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    I believe its called "Death Aura" or something like that. Maybe lesser Death Aura will be cheap enough to be cast-able with the recharging SP. /shrug
    Its not 12 SP cheap - not even close. We'll see what it changes to.

  8. #48
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora1979 View Post
    if i remeber right, 1 round is approx 1 min... so thats 20 mins duration for a capped arcane + concentration, which is probably in the 30-40's or more..... so, duration wise, it doesnt seem the same.
    One Round in 3.5, which DDO is based upon, is 6 Seconds. So take what you thought it was, and divide by ten.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Which spells exactly?
    I think the main tactic with said build was wal of fire.. It now has a save.
    Just when they enter it. Since melee mages tend to Fight IN the wall of fire vs. other mages kiting THROUGH the Wall of fire, it doesnt hurt melee mages near as much.
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  10. #50
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Please tell me that haste and displacement can still be extended. That would be so painful if they could not be. I would be casting these spells all the time sigh on my bards.

    I do like the changes. I am rolling up a wizard to mid level just to test out all the spells. Perhaps spellcasting will have real strategy in the future. That would be awesome if it did. I have always felt that spellcasting was poor in DDO. Too formulaic unlike the pnp game itself which was just so creative.
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  11. #51
    Community Member moorewr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimpinator View Post
    How about scaling the Max SP you cap at with Echoes of Power?

    12 Base, and an additional (+4/5 max per level) would actually be usable, post level 5.
    I'm of the opinion that echoes of power is Not Meant For Us. It is probably a direct response to exit surveys where new players from standard MMOs started off with a caster and quit in disgust because they kept blowing their blue bar..
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  12. #52
    Community Member Nick_RC's Avatar
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    Really like the look of this. Wall of fire is so bleh...bring on the proper nukes. I can see next mod being a complete nukefest if done right.

    I think the cooldown on aoe instadeath is too long tho. Nukes will destroy things so much faster. Nuking was already superpowerful all the way up to cap. Its going to be even more so with wail reduced substantially.

    I will definately NOT be taking extend as a feat now. I was iffy about it before now with WoF nerf (which i like) and being unextendable.... Il save the hasting for the bards.

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  13. #53
    The Hatchery Aurora1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    One Round in 3.5, which DDO is based upon, is 6 Seconds. So take what you thought it was, and divide by ten.
    Ok, fair point, as i said, I played DnD long before 3.5 so, yea, im well out of date. Still though, that means 4- 5 min FW's according to D20..... so, to say they are pulling it inline with PnP.... i cant see how? Duration is shorter, and a new save thrown in.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanvar View Post
    I believe my left thumb is Gimp. I think I need to reroll.
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  14. #54
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    Default Nerf bat

    Do you guys ever consider doing things in gradual steps ? Firewall has been overpowered since it has been introduced and I like making it cost more but not being able to extend it makes it cost way more. Fail.

    Does Wail of the Banshee now have a 30/25 second cool-down. If the answer is yes, then we have another fail.

    Looks like you took a bunch of spells which are useless after the market and lowered their costs so that they are now lower costing useless spells. Fail.

    There are lots of spells in this game that have effects that don't measure up to the hd of the actual content we face and are therefore useless such as Circle of Death and Power word kill. They are not used because a lvl 20 sorc can kill things with Cone of cold in a lvl 10 quest faster than either spell would work and a lvl 20 sorc has no reason to be in a lvl 10 quest. If you want to make high level spells useful then make them work against monsters at the level range they would be used at and make them affect appropriate hd. This is your first non-fail.


    Many of these changes look okay for Wizards but are brutal for Sorcs unless you really introduce the easy button and make Sorcs able to swap spells every few hours and if you do that you get another fail.

    Scorching ray is not little used at level but is probably nothing more than a finishing spell at end game which is why many Sorcs drop it. Lowering the cost is great for low level quests but at end-game is not really going to be felt. To me it looks like most of the changes fall into this category. It looks like most of the changes only benefit low level questing and hurt high level questing. This = win for lowbies and once again, fail for endgame.

    I used Sorcs as examples in most of this since they have to take spells semi-permanently whereas Wizards can adjust but Sorcs have been the unloved step-children for a bit now and this makes it seem even more so,,, unless we want to play them at low levels forever.


    Without testing any of this I see most of it as your usual over-balance act and give it a double fail. I hope I am wrong.
    Last edited by mehlinda; 03-21-2011 at 05:31 PM.

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  15. #55
    Community Member Gulnar13's Avatar
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    Which level is PWK anyway? I don't want to log my wiz right now to see.

  16. #56
    Community Member HarveyMilk's Avatar
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    This is all good news.

    All arcanes (except water savant) will still want to OID + firewall. Undead will still take extra dmg and be kitable bc of their typically bad reflex saves.

    The boosts to underused spells is a very welcome change.

    Adding more incentives to debuffing is great.

    The only thing I agree about being a bit too harsh is the cooldown on PW:Kill. Maybe 2 minute would be better? PW:Kill would be the best option for sorcs wanting to play the instakill game, but lacking the DC's of wizards, as long as they beat SR.

    Edit: Why are the longer cool-downs on the other death spells good? So you can't just wail your way through quests. It's like trying to /cry your way through this thread. Annoying and not fun!

  17. #57

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    As far as I am concerned, WoF is used extensively because of it's efficiency, not it's DPS (unless you're swarmed
    by waves of mummies). i.e. it was used due to lack of an alternative. I don't see how these changes help.

    Also, I was happy when I saw the cost of the proposed SLAs for Savants. Now I've seen how much the non-SLA
    versions cost, I'm not so happy.

    I'd have liked to have seen all damage spells scale with caster level (e.g. Ice Storm!). It's a good way to scale
    damage output with level without having to nerf feats.

  18. #58
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    I want to say just one thing ...


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  19. #59
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora1979 View Post
    Ok, fair point, as i said, I played DnD long before 3.5 so, yea, im well out of date. Still though, that means 4- 5 min FW's according to D20..... so, to say they are pulling it inline with PnP.... i cant see how? Duration is shorter, and a new save thrown in.
    Not saying I agree with the changes, just defining how long a "Round" is. And if you need a Firewall 5 minutes long to burn something.. well, you're a Water Savant in Update 9! XD I made a funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulnar13 View Post
    Which level is PWK anyway? I don't want to log my wiz right now to see.
    Spell Level IX.

  20. #60
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    Nice. Seems we'll have to almost relearn to play a caster, which IMO is great news.

    Only thing that you devs will have to take a closer look in the future is the cost of metamagic. Metamagic costs are now base on current spell costs. With spell cost changes, metamagic will also have to change to keep all this work on spell changes balanced.

    For example, I think it's fair paying 6 for Scorching Ray and almost six times this value (35) for Wall of Fire. However, I don't think it's fair paying 46 for a maximize+empowered Scorching Ray and less than twice this cost (75) for a maximized/empowered Wall of Fire.

    IMO, matamagic will eventually have to work the way they worked a long time ago, multiplying the spell cost instead of adding a value. Maybe Maximize = +100% cost, Empower = +50% cost, etc..

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