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  1. #1
    Turbine Community Team FordyTwo's Avatar
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    Default Character Stats 101

    In my ongoing effort to gather and present information for newer DDO players with lingering questions, the Character Stat 101 guide has been published today.

    Constructive feedback and criticism is encouraged! I'd love to hear feedback from you (the community!) on information that's potentially missing from this guide, or that you feel could be presented in a better manner.
    Kyle "FordyTwo" Horner
    "I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird is all I've got. That and my sweet style." -Moss

  2. #2
    The Top Side GoldyGopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordyTwo View Post
    In my ongoing effort to gather and present information for newer DDO players with lingering questions, the Character Stat 101 guide has been published today.

    Constructive feedback and criticism is encouraged! I'd love to hear feedback from you (the community!) on information that's potentially missing from this guide, or that you feel could be presented in a better manner.
    How and where would you like our feedback?

    For Example you write:
    In DDO, your Base Attack Bonus (BAB) is a small number with big consequences. BAB determines your ability to hit enemies with both melee and ranged weapons; the higher your BAB, the better your combat accuracy!
    You have forgotten to mention the most important factor of BAB, it sets the speed (number of attacks) at which a character fights at. The difference in 1 point of BAB can be as much as a loss of 3% attack speed.
    While other factors can modify your attack bonus only one spell (clickie) can increase your BAB and there there is some debate at how well it works.

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  3. #3
    Community Member Trample's Avatar
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    can you please add: "CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT" ?
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    Community Member vrobel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trample View Post
    can you please add: "CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT" ?
    this is something many new players dont know

  5. #5
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trample View Post
    can you please add: "CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT" ?
    Wait, that's not inside, despite the fact that about 50% of the posts in the "which advice was most important to you as a newb" thread were emphasizing this?

    So here comes my constructive feedback:
    Problem: The guide is missing the "Con is never a dump stat" line.
    Solution: Insert "Con is never a dump stat". Thrice or so.
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  6. #6
    Turbine Community Team FordyTwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    How and where would you like our feedback?

    You have forgotten to mention the most important factor of BAB, it sets the speed (number of attacks) at which a character fights at. The difference in 1 point of BAB can be as much as a loss of 3% attack speed.

    While other factors can modify your attack bonus only one spell (clickie) can increase your BAB and there there is some debate at how well it works.
    That's a fair question!

    Giving feedback here is great, and I'm glad you brought up BAB. I've modified the entry in Character Stats 101 to reflect your feedback concerning attack speed.

    However, for 101 guides our goal is to avoid overwhelming a newer player who is likely still sitting somewhere within levels 1-5. So, while I'm personally very happy to know the finer details of BAB (specifically, that the difference of 1 point of BAB can be as much as a loss of 3% attack speed) a newbie would probably have no idea what to do with that information -- at least, until later (201?) guides!
    Kyle "FordyTwo" Horner
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  7. #7
    Community Member Quarterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trample View Post
    can you please add: "CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT" ?
    Okay, I won't dump any points into that ability.
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    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Expand the intro to the brief saves discussion at the end to indicate when and why that matters.

    When a monster casts a spell at you, in order to resist those effects (or reduce the effects) you need to save. Each spell has type of save associated with it. For example a Fireball (an well known fantasy spell) has a Reflex save to indicate if you avoid the direct hit of the spell. A spell that would hold you still (Hold Person) is a WILL save to resist.

    Saves also come into play when avoiding things like traps.
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  9. #9
    Turbine Community Team FordyTwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trample View Post
    can you please add: "CON IS NEVER A DUMP STAT" ?
    After some discussion with Tolero, we both agreed this was a good point! So I've added "Keeping this Ability Score no lower than 10 is highly encouraged, even if you're making a character who isn't a melee style." to the entry concerning CON.
    Kyle "FordyTwo" Horner
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  10. #10
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Could also mention in the skills and feats text, that some character classes get bonus feats they can take at certain levels over and above the ones listed above. For details look into the class info.
    Sarlona - Stormreach Requisition Company (SRC):Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8; Hennako-Human Cleric20; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15;more

  11. #11
    The Top Side GoldyGopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordyTwo View Post
    That's a fair question!

    Giving feedback here is great, and I'm glad you brought up BAB. I've modified the entry in Character Stats 101 to reflect your feedback concerning attack speed.

    However, for 101 guides our goal is to avoid overwhelming a newer player who is likely still sitting somewhere within levels 1-5. So, while I'm personally very happy to know the finer details of BAB (specifically, that the difference of 1 point of BAB can be as much as a loss of 3% attack speed) a newbie would probably have no idea what to do with that information -- at least, until later (201?) guides!
    Suggestion 1
    Link this information to the character creation screen. Have it so it is promently displayed and clicking on it opens to this page in the compendium.
    New players are the players who need this information the most and not having easy access to it early on defeats the purpose of this work.

    Suggestion 2
    If you are planning on building a series of pages (Characters Stats 201, 301, and 401 in University parlance) mention that early on the document and you should really include what you are attempting to do as part of that description.
    This page is designed to provide the basic elements of character design in DDO:EU. Subsequent pages will take an indepth look at other aspects of the game.

    Suggestion 3
    Your images are fairly useless in thier current mood. IE I really wanted to click on them and get some further information, but instead got to the image screen.
    There placement is also a little awkward.
    It would be nice if a drill down or popup listed what feats were available by class.

    Suggestion 4
    The page lists Ability Scores, Skills, Feats and Enhancements as ways to improve your character, yet only Ability Scores is really discussed. The others are almost only mentioned in passing.

    Suggestion 5
    If it is not an Ability, Score, Skill, Feat or Enhancement it should be taken off the page, AC and Saves for example. It's not that they are unimportant, rather they are not connected to exactly what you are trying to accomplish with this page.

    Suggestion 6
    Have links to subsequent pages at the bottom of the page. IE Armor Class, Saves, Skills, as well as links in line for indepth discussion of things like specific ability scores.
    Last edited by GoldyGopher; 03-16-2011 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Type - Expansion of an idea or three.

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  12. #12
    Turbine Community Team FordyTwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    Expand the intro to the brief saves discussion at the end to indicate when and why that matters.

    When a monster casts a spell at you, in order to resist those effects (or reduce the effects) you need to save. Each spell has type of save associated with it. For example a Fireball (an well known fantasy spell) has a Reflex save to indicate if you avoid the direct hit of the spell. A spell that would hold you still (Hold Person) is a WILL save to resist.

    Saves also come into play when avoiding things like traps.
    Great suggestion! I've updated the entry and given you a thumbs-up, good sir.
    Kyle "FordyTwo" Horner
    "I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird is all I've got. That and my sweet style." -Moss

  13. #13
    Community Member Zaal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordyTwo View Post
    In my ongoing effort to gather and present information for newer DDO players with lingering questions, the Character Stat 101 guide has been published today.

    Constructive feedback and criticism is encouraged! I'd love to hear feedback from you (the community!) on information that's potentially missing from this guide, or that you feel could be presented in a better manner.
    that rox bro - thx!
    ASCENDANTS on SARLONA (viva ADAR!): Zaal * Screwz * Lorrz * Zill * HamHoks * Gusty * Grasshumper * Durzo * DrHurtz

  14. #14
    Community Member Trample's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordyTwo View Post
    After some discussion with Tolero, we both agreed this was a good point! So I've added "Keeping this Ability Score no lower than 10 is highly encouraged, even if you're making a character who isn't a melee style." to the entry concerning CON.
    +1 to you, and you will get another one if you can also add it to the character creation screen.
    Warforged Built as machines to fight in the Last War, the Warforged evolved until they became a new kind of creature - a living construct, a master race.
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  15. #15
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Some nit picks:

    Tip! Skills are improved by spending skill points; feats are improved by learning their corresponding II, III and IV variations. Both skills and feats can be improved via enhancements!
    This is wrong, or misleading. Feats don't have II, III, IV variations, Enhancements do. Some feats have "Improved" or "Greater" versions, but those are separate feats, not improvements of feats.

    Tip! Enhancements are different than ability scores, skills, and feats; enhancements are never permanent choices. You may reset your chosen enhancements for free once a week has passed.
    It's not free, it costs a small amount of plat (could be significant for the intended audience of this), and I'm pretty sure the timer is 3 days, not a week. But I might be confusing it with feat and spell respecs.

    And a suggestion:

    Tip! Some class abilities and feats require you to have a “minimum” amount of a particular Ability Score. Keep that in mind when picking your ability increases!
    Something about how Tomes apply to those prereqs, but not Enhancements or items could be good. This is often a source of confusion.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick replies to the Con issue.

    I largely agree with GoldyGopher's post.

    Especially, suggestion 3. I wanted to use the nice picture as a navigation tool, too, and was disappointed when I was directed to the image's wiki page.

    I want to emphasize that the option to cross-link to other pages, in order to explain things in depth, or to provide supplemental information should be used - this is one thing what makes wikis so powerful.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    My suggestions:

    • Ability: Strength. Add info that they determine carry ability.
    • Ability: Inteligence: amount of bonus spell points for Wizards
    • Ability: Wisdom: amount of bonus spell points for Cleric, Ranger and Paladins
    • Ability: Charisma: amount of bonus spell points for FvS, Bards, Sorcerers
    • Explanation: "some classes" are useless information. Give proper will not overwhelming newbies.
    • Remover Tip: "Tip! Some class abilities and feats require you to have a “minimum” amount of a particular Ability Score. Keep that in mind when picking your ability increases!"
    • Insted add Spell sub article: When you informed new players how to use spell in game (place on the hotbar and click), that tip above (but in my opinion is still too little - but smart players will understand that with the changes I posted above), and that spells uses SP ect.
    • Information (Tip maybe) that active abilities must be dragged to hotbar and click for use.


    I made my suggestion from my experience when helping new players. They offen don’t know why they move slower (encumbrance), how to cast a spell, what is that blue bar below red one, why they can't cast a spell (min. ability score), how to use Manyshoot/ Trip/ Scribe Spells ect.
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  18. #18
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    Strength entry should change word "physical" to "melee", because Crossbows are physical but don't use str.

    Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma entries should mention the special abilities of Rogues/Monks/Paladins.

    A common mistake for Rangers/Paladins is to put too much into Wisdom, not understanding that buffs/items count towards reaching 14.

    Consitution entry should mention that it's a rule of thumb for non-melee characters to have Con as their second-highest stat. (Look at the premade Wizard paths for an example!)
    Last edited by Angelus_dead; 03-16-2011 at 01:13 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Lifeblood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FordyTwo View Post
    After some discussion with Tolero, we both agreed this was a good point! So I've added "Keeping this Ability Score no lower than 10 is highly encouraged, even if you're making a character who isn't a melee style." to the entry concerning CON.
    if your con is only a base 10 ...you have dumped it

    on the other hand ...at least your trying to do the right thing

    "Come on folks its easy" Tico 20 Cleric, Montico Arti, Longlife 18/2 Ranger/monk, Jaaomae wc 20, Teeco Cleric

  20. #20
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    Wisdom/Charisma entries should mention the special abilities of Monks/Paladins.

    Consitution entry should mention that it's a rule of thumb for non-melee characters to have Con as their second-highest stat. (Look at the premade Wizard paths for an example!)
    That are good tips. But I thing that FordyTwo told that they avoid details in that version. Because of that I don't mention about SR and DC - and this is basic of DDO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    (...)
    A common mistake for Rangers/Paladins is to put too much into Wisdom, not understanding that buffs/items count towards reaching 14.
    (...)
    This is not mistake. But Min / Max your toon.
    Last edited by Requiro; 03-16-2011 at 01:16 PM.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
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    Player remembers. Player never forgets.

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