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Thread: Helfsploiter?

  1. #21
    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Default More of an exploiter

    At level 7, the fighter dilettante will be exchanged for monk upon tome use. Strength will be 24, and Wisdom 16.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    
    
    
    
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Samaya 
    Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Female
    (1 Rogue \ 19 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 280
    Spell Points: 276 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    25
    Dexterity            15                    20
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         14                    16
    Wisdom               12                    15
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                       Ending           
                     Base Skills        
    Skills           (Level 20)         
    Balance               9             
    Bluff                 4             
    Concentration         3             
    Diplomacy             0             
    Disable Device       25             
    Haggle                4             
    Heal                  2             
    Hide                  5             
    Intimidate            0             
    Jump                 19             
    Listen                2             
    Move Silently         5             
    Open Lock            27             
    Perform              n/a            
    Repair                3             
    Search               25             
    Spot                 24             
    Swim                  7             
    Tumble                9             
    Use Magic Device     22             
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost IV
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance III
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Search II
    Enhancement: Improved Search III
    Enhancement: Improved Search IV
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I

  2. #22
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    I would still put points in open locks. I also like the extra sneak attack damage, and skill points.

    I thought about going Bard to get just UMD. The reason for UMD is so I can use Pure Good, and race required items. while I like not having the expectations upon me which a rogue level brings, I think rogue is still stronger than bard for my purposes. I will consider it though for Focusing Chant to boost UMD for a minute, and a level 1 buff song. I will think about it.


    Thanks!
    You don't have to put points in open locks. I only have my initial investment in it. If you have a decent dex, and then appropriate gear you should get most locks pretty easily. Especially if you have +5 tools in the bank, or ones you can pass yourself.

    I saw your build going 19/1. Personally, I would go 18/2 (if you're worried about skills you can dump a bunch of points into one skill when you take the second rogue level) or 18/1/1 Ranger/Rogue/Fighter. 19 ranger doesn't get you anything however skill points or an extra feat would be more valuable. Either way you'd be at a 19 BaB with any of those options. I saw you're taking Skill Focus: UMD, I would go fighter so you can get power attack.

    From personal experience I would take Power Attack at lvl 1, then tempest requirements with spring attack at 12, skill focus UMD at 18 and fighting with a GA (Maelstrom at 2, Carnifex at 4 with Holy Maul where appropriate) until you can pull your green steel out at 12 I would even worry about the tempest pre-requisites.

    Unless you have a +3 con tome, I would suggest starting with either a 13 or a 15 con (better but would require a 12 int starting out). Taking a Con point from Human Adaptability or Greater Adaptability will open up racial toughness III.
    Last edited by LordPiglet; 03-04-2011 at 11:15 AM.
    Arrael - Tempest/Kensai; Alyesia - Exploiter Build; Porksoda - WF FvS; Kaealla - Paladin; Arodeth - Envoker FvS

  3. #23
    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Default Then there is the Bard option

    I adjusted the stats to show how they will be at 20. I will actually start at 12 wisdom and 12 charisma.

    It seems that I am really overthinking this build. That's because I have always wanted to try the exploiter, but I didn't want to make everyone else's exploiter. A half-orc version has to be good fun, but I wanted something with a bit more depth and not as straightforward. There is also something delightfully perverse with a Pally reborn with a Bard level and Monk dilettante.

    I think I have 3 decent choices, but which one?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Samaya 
    Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Female
    (7 Fighter \ 12 Ranger \ 1 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 324
    Spell Points: 248 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity            15                    20
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         10                    12
    Wisdom               14                    16
    Charisma             10                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                       Ending           
                     Base Skills        
    Skills           (Level 20)         
    Balance              14             
    Bluff                 5             
    Concentration         3             
    Diplomacy             2             
    Disable Device       n/a            
    Haggle               14             
    Heal                  3             
    Hide                  5             
    Intimidate            2             
    Jump                 31             
    Listen                3             
    Move Silently         5             
    Open Lock            n/a            
    Perform               6             
    Repair                1             
    Search                1             
    Spot                 19             
    Swim                  8             
    Tumble                6             
    Use Magic Device     25             
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+3)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
    Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

  4. #24
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    Default I don't see the point of the monk feat

    The whole point of the monk level of the exploiter is to allow the wisdom bonus to provide meaningful AC. The monk dilettante feat simply doesn't cut it. You only get 2 more AC from the feat while the exploiter gets five from 2 (starting wisdom 14)+1(+2 tome)+2(item)+(maybe one more from epic gear). Getting an exploiter to this level of AC is tricky, and I doubt that throwing away 3 points of AC will allow you to get there. Note that the classic (18 ranger) exploiter also gets another point of AC for tempestIII. This is a lot of grind for an inadequate AC (maybe less so if you already have a +4 insight greensteel item and chattering ring).

    Go human. This gives you the extra point you need for search. Put enough points into strength to bring it up to 18.

    If you have the items you need to make an AC you are happy with, consider making level 20 rogue. This should allow you to max out any skills you had to avoid while leveling a fighter. Also try switching to 1/15/4. This gains another favored enemy and adds +3 (with AP cost) to damage to favored enemies. KenseiIII only gives +1 (more like 1.6 with khopeshes). You get to keep 3 of the feats, and most of the enhancements.

  5. #25
    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Default

    There are dilettante enhancements to roll up to 5 wisdom bonus points into AC. If it were the feat alone, it wouldn't be worth the bother.

    Also try switching to 1/15/4.
    Then I can have neither Tempest 3, or Kensai 1 to go with my Tempest 2.
    Last edited by Rickpa; 03-04-2011 at 01:53 PM.

  6. #26
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    There are dilettante enhancements to roll up to 5 wisdom bonus points into AC. If it were the feat alone, it wouldn't be worth the bother.

    Then I can have neither Tempest 3, or Kensai 1 to go with my Tempest 2.
    Exactly, unless you need the feats, there's no point in going 15/4/1 for those 2 additional feats. It locks you out of other areas. Admittedly, Tempest III is not as good as it once was, however personally I think if you're going 15, might as well get tempest III for the double strike chance, extra point of AC and the benefits from using the ToD set for tempests. Actually, I'd probably say 15/3/2 Ranger/Rogue/fighter is better then 15/4/1 ranger/fighter/rogue. You gain 12 skill points, additional 1d6 backstab damage at the loss of 1 feat, 8 hit points and 0 bab.
    Last edited by LordPiglet; 03-04-2011 at 06:45 PM.
    Arrael - Tempest/Kensai; Alyesia - Exploiter Build; Porksoda - WF FvS; Kaealla - Paladin; Arodeth - Envoker FvS

  7. #27
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordPiglet View Post
    Exactly, unless you need the feats, there's no point in going 15/4/1 for those 2 additional feats. It locks you out of other areas. Admittedly, Tempest III is not as good as it once was, however personally I think if you're going 15, might as well get tempest III for the double strike chance, extra point of AC and the benefits from using the ToD set for tempests. Actually, I'd probably say 15/3/2 Ranger/Rogue/fighter is better then 15/4/1 ranger/fighter/rogue. You gain 12 skill points, additional 1d6 backstab damage at the loss of 1 feat, 8 hit points and 0 bab.
    I've been trying to figure out a course for a capped exploiter, and I've felt that the feats were simply worth more than most other options (mostly improved critical: ranged and maximize. Finding one more is another story, I'm guessing weapon specialization: khopesh? (weapon focus: slashing replaces OTWF)). Good find on the helf enhancements, that might make the exploiter work.

    I'm curious what feats you would plan for a 15/3/2 build. If you drop weapon specialization (which also needs weapon focus), you lose +2 damage (to gain 3.5 against 0% fort non-agro, a loss if you ask me) and 18 hit points (you missed fighter toughness II) to gain 12 skill points. I have to admit I don't like my feats, and that could easily make the difference in the builds.

    * note that you can easily max UMD, DD, and search with a human TR 15/1/4 build. I can't see how a helf might not, but haven't run it through Ron's.

  8. #28
    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Default Final Build

    Thanks for the input! Here's the build I am going with.

    I staggered out the fighter levels to preserve the trap skills, and went with 2 rogue levels, to top off skills at 20. I did have to trick the planner to give me Monk Dilettante, but the stats are otherwise what to expect.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Samaya 
    Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Female
    (6 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 290
    Spell Points: 199 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity            15                    20
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         14                    16
    Wisdom               12                    16
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                     9
    Bluff                 3                     5
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy            -1                     1
    Disable Device        6                    27
    Haggle                3                     4
    Heal                  2                     4
    Hide                  2                     5
    Intimidate           -1                     1
    Jump                  7                    16
    Listen                2                     4
    Move Silently         2                     5
    Open Lock             6                    26
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                2                     3
    Search                6                    32
    Spot                  6                    22
    Swim                  3                     8
    Tumble                6                     9
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Bluff (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
    Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Defense
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Elven Perception I
    Enhancement: Elven Perception II
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Search II
    Enhancement: Improved Search III
    Enhancement: Improved Search IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Last edited by Rickpa; 03-09-2011 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Corrected stats

  9. #29
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    Default Some suggestions:

    lose two weapon defense.
    probably lose stunning blow.
    Probably lose oversize two weapon fighting.

    Take power attack
    take weapon expertise
    probably take improved crit: ranged

    two weapon defense just doesn't bring the AC you need. Weapon expertise does, and you already paid the int penalty for it.
    Stunning blow is a bit harder to give up. Do you have enough fighter enhancements for it to land? Most rangers avoid it.
    OTWF is taken to get tempest3. I would drop it for some other feat myself, but you probably need it if you want to hit anything in epic.

    Don't take your feats in this order (I suspect you were just checking them off). Take khopesh before improved: crit slashing.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by yawumpus View Post
    lose two weapon defense.
    probably lose stunning blow.
    Probably lose oversize two weapon fighting.

    Take power attack
    take weapon expertise
    probably take improved crit: ranged

    two weapon defense just doesn't bring the AC you need. Weapon expertise does, and you already paid the int penalty for it.
    Stunning blow is a bit harder to give up. Do you have enough fighter enhancements for it to land? Most rangers avoid it.
    OTWF is taken to get tempest3. I would drop it for some other feat myself, but you probably need it if you want to hit anything in epic.

    Don't take your feats in this order (I suspect you were just checking them off). Take khopesh before improved: crit slashing.
    OTWF is not a requisite for Tempest 3. It's to eliminate the -2 to hit when not using a light weapon in the off hand. TW defense is just a placeholder as there are a couple of feats that I may not decide upon until later. I may even opt for more toughness or extend spell once I get past my PrEs.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    OTWF is not a requisite for Tempest 3. It's to eliminate the -2 to hit when not using a light weapon in the off hand. TW defense is just a placeholder as there are a couple of feats that I may not decide upon until later. I may even opt for more toughness or extend spell once I get past my PrEs.
    Ranger Tempest III: Requires: Ranger Tempest II and one of Lightning Reflexes, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Blocking, Two Weapon Defense

    It might not require OTWF, but the others are even less good.

  12. #32
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    Ah. Thanks! The time that I did Tempest 3, it was a dex ranger, so it was TWDefense. I had forgotten there was a feat prerequisite for T3.

  13. #33
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    Fighter Haste Boost III comes at Fighter level 7, so you might consider Ftr 7/Rgr 12/Rog 1 for your build. That Haste Boost makes a bigger difference than I expected when I first started messing around with the class.

    That drops your total skill points for the character by 7 (total, not 7 per level), but you should still be able to get the skills that you want and you still get Evasion on the character with your Ranger levels, so you don't need the second Rogue level for that.

  14. #34
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    A few more questions.

    Greater adaptability wisdom? I looked at the stats and assumed it was in dexterity. I would move the stat point from dexterity to constitution if only because you want GA constitution to unlock racial toughness III (helves can take that, can't they?). Yes, it makes your AC even tighter, but since you are going to get hit, you better have the hit points (neither are cheap in AP, but even so, a +1 wisdom tome is far, far cheaper than 4AP).

    [on second thought I won't argue the point in the highly likely case you hit the wrong button at level 7 and meant +2 wisdom, +2 charisma instead of +4 charisma. 2AC vs. 10 hit points? Have to go with that, but you just know you will die a few times with -19 hit points.]

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordPiglet View Post
    The thing to remember, is that your wisdom bonus to ac will max out at 5, so you need a max of 20 wisdom.

    Drop Wisdom to a 12 (+2 tome, +6 item) for a total of 20.
    He's not added any monk in the build so I tend to agree.
    Last edited by Emili; 03-10-2011 at 04:31 PM.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by yawumpus View Post
    [on second thought I won't argue the point in the highly likely case you hit the wrong button at level 7 and meant +2 wisdom, +2 charisma instead of +4 charisma. 2AC vs. 10 hit points? Have to go with that, but you just know you will die a few times with -19 hit points.]
    The planner doesn't allow me to start with a 12 wisdom and plan the monk dilettante, which I can get with a +1 tome at level 3 and a feat swap.

    Following the standard Exploiter build, you have a +6 AC bonus from wisdom. I can live with +5, and gaining the ability to combine rogue, ranger, and fighter.

    As a Half Elf, I can enjoy the dilettante perks, rogue skills, ranger Tempest II, and fighter Kensai I. The extra fighter toughness should make up for not dropping the monk dilettante for 2 points of extra constitution.

  17. #37
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    The DDO Wiki says the monk dilettante Armor Class bonus from wisdom comes from being "defensively centered".

    What does that mean in-game? Can the half-elf wield non-monk weapons and retain the +5 AC bonus ?

    EDIT: In-game the tool-tip for the monk AC says "unarmored and unencumbered."

    I wield a bow and I get the Not Centered warning, but I still see the Wisdom bonus to AC in the character panel.
    Last edited by winsom; 03-28-2011 at 03:06 AM.
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  18. #38
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    Basically, as long as you are not wearing armor (ie - wear only robes, outfits) you'll get the AC bonus.

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