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Thread: Helfsploiter?

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    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Default Helfsploiter?

    I wanted to try an exploiter, and I also wanted to try a half elf. Since I didn't see any builds posted to that end, I decided to give it a try.

    I am thinking about what will come next for my 20 Paladin. I like the idea of the Dilettante feat for monk giving me all the armor class benefits to wisdom, without having to taking any monk levels. I also get +1 wisdom with the monk Dilettante!

    2 Tempest/1 Kensai seems to offer more DPS than Tempest 3, plus I get +2 strength with 6 fighter levels.

    The only down side for me is, as someone who's first main is a rogue, I find it hard to have any rogue with weak search/disable. I planned for ok trapsmithing into the upper mid levels, but I probably should stop putting skill points into anything by level 4, when STK elite separates the real rogues from the posers. The 6 fighter levels also kill any trap ambitions that I might have. Just not enough skill points in fighter! Of course, in DDO there is always a trade-off somewhere.

    For level 20, I was going to go fighter, but decided that I wanted the extra skill points and switched it to ranger.

    For weapon of choice, khopesh still seems to be the way to go, but heavy picks have a certain charm and are free featwise. Then again, I have some awesome scimitars. Since I won't take the proficiency in khopesh until past mid levels, I will have plenty of time to decide.


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Samaya 
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
    (6 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 13 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 322
    Spell Points: 238 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity            15                    20
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom               14                    18
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                     9
    Bluff                 2                     4
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                     1
    Disable Device        5                    17
    Haggle                3                     4
    Heal                  2                     4
    Hide                  2                     5
    Intimidate           -1                     1
    Jump                  7                    20
    Listen                2                     4
    Move Silently         2                     5
    Open Lock             6                    29
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                    17
    Spot                  6                     9
    Swim                  3                     8
    Tumble                3                     6
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Last edited by Rickpa; 03-03-2011 at 12:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    The thing to remember, is that your wisdom bonus to ac will max out at 5, so you need a max of 20 wisdom.

    Drop Wisdom to a 12 (+2 tome, +6 item) for a total of 20.

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    Community Member HellsChaos's Avatar
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    I like the concept of the build very much! They only thought I had was that if your not going to put in any points into DD, OP (rogue stuff) past lvl 4, then are you only taking the rogue for evasion and ability to use some wands? If so, I didnt see any enhancement points put in (nor do I really think you could anyway with 2 prestige classes on the go). UMD could also be a reason to take the 1 lvl in rogue, but you can also get it from bard (and use charm spell, some minor fascinate at low lvls, etc). I am not totally seeing the purpose of the rogue lvl with the restrictions you noted in your post, outside of course being in the original exploiter build.

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    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordPiglet View Post
    The thing to remember, is that your wisdom bonus to ac will max out at 5, so you need a max of 20 wisdom.

    Drop Wisdom to a 12 (+2 tome, +6 item) for a total of 20.
    I thought of that, but by dropping it to 12, I lose the Monk Dilettante, so that's out of the question.

    Thanks!

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    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellsChaos View Post
    I like the concept of the build very much! They only thought I had was that if your not going to put in any points into DD, OP (rogue stuff) past lvl 4, then are you only taking the rogue for evasion and ability to use some wands? If so, I didnt see any enhancement points put in (nor do I really think you could anyway with 2 prestige classes on the go). UMD could also be a reason to take the 1 lvl in rogue, but you can also get it from bard (and use charm spell, some minor fascinate at low lvls, etc). I am not totally seeing the purpose of the rogue lvl with the restrictions you noted in your post, outside of course being in the original exploiter build.
    I would still put points in open locks. I also like the extra sneak attack damage, and skill points.

    I thought about going Bard to get just UMD. The reason for UMD is so I can use Pure Good, and race required items. while I like not having the expectations upon me which a rogue level brings, I think rogue is still stronger than bard for my purposes. I will consider it though for Focusing Chant to boost UMD for a minute, and a level 1 buff song. I will think about it.


    Thanks!

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    Community Member talyor's Avatar
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    Personally i would drop your wis to 12 and bring up intel to 14 for 1 extra skill point and then take the wizard dilletante feat for stoneskin and lvl 10 shield wands take the enhancements and you get GH scrolls too among many others that should far outway the 5 points of armor class from the monk dilletante.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talyor View Post
    Personally i would drop your wis to 12 and bring up intel to 14 for 1 extra skill point and then take the wizard dilletante feat for stoneskin and lvl 10 shield wands take the enhancements and you get GH scrolls too among many others that should far outway the 5 points of armor class from the monk dilletante.
    While stoneskin and shield wands are nice... shield wands are drops only, and those rare items already go to my Bard & Rogue. The 5 points of monk armor class can't be dispelled either!

    It might be more satisfactory to just go ranger/fighter with monk dilettante, going neutral good, and not worrying about UMD. The thing is, having a good lock picker is often missed more than a trap monkey.

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    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    You could set Wisdom at 12 then at level 3 eat a +1 tome then switch whatever dill feat you choose with monk using your free dragonmark quest feat exchange.
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

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    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    The Dilettante feat is only given at level 1, and your stats at level 1 are all that matter in selecting this feat, no matter how much that stat is later. At least that's how I expect it to work. Does somebody know different?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    I thought of that, but by dropping it to 12, I lose the Monk Dilettante, so that's out of the question.

    Thanks!
    You can play the tome metagame. The 13 <stat> that you need to qualify for the feat includes tomes. Take something like barbarian at first level, eat a tome later on, go visit Fred to get it switched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    The Dilettante feat is only given at level 1, and your stats at level 1 are all that matter in selecting this feat, no matter how much that stat is later. At least that's how I expect it to work. Does somebody know different?
    Yes. They fixed the Dillitannte respec before U8 went live. For a while, you could switch the dillitante feat for a generic feat.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • One loot system to rule them all. (Including Cannith Crafting, and Named Loot.)
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Adjusting Challenge XP so that they're worth running more than once.

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    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    The Dilettante feat is only given at level 1, and your stats at level 1 are all that matter in selecting this feat, no matter how much that stat is later. At least that's how I expect it to work. Does somebody know different?
    How you expect it to work and how it actually works is two very different things. The game only checks to make sure you meet the pre-req at the time you are switching feats.
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

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    what makes you think you can't do traps? i have a Pimp (HO Exploiter) who is in the vale and hasn't met a trap he couldn't get... except that &*^(% in Cabal. You might not get to epic traps but that's about it.
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    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    I thought of that, but by dropping it to 12, I lose the Monk Dilettante, so that's out of the question.

    Thanks!
    Feat swap after you eat the tome. I started with an 11 wisdom and ate a +3 at 11, then you can use the free feat swap to change dilitante. Tomes count into the requirement.

    However, since her wisdom caps at +5, my ac is below my exploiters

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    Why not go the other way with the dilettante feat and dump rogue class instead and take rogue dilettante?

    Something like 12 ranger, 7 fighter, 1 monk or 12 ranger, 6 monk, 2 fighter or 18 ranger, 1 fighter, 1 monk.

    Don't discount the amazing DPS you can get from handwraps on such a build at least situationally (against skeletons/liches etc).

    Unarmed 12 ranger, 7 rogue, 1 monk build is another good option for maximum DPS. Not sure how Helf would fit in here though.

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    I did a build like the the other day in prep for my Ranger's TR. Something else to play with is cleric dill instead of monk, you obviously lose the 5 armor but gain heal and rez scrolls.

    Also if you are keeping your umd up check for shield wands in the guild wand vendor, I believe I have seen them there before.

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    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthesponge View Post
    what makes you think you can't do traps? i have a Pimp (HO Exploiter) who is in the vale and hasn't met a trap he couldn't get... except that &*^(% in Cabal. You might not get to epic traps but that's about it.
    I went in Cabal Elite thinking my 52 DD mechanic could do it, and it blew up on a 7.

    I am thinking that the 6 fighter levels with 4 skill points each level, halved by cross class skills means I can do UMD, and one other. To do it right, I need 6 so I can add search. Search is really the skill to beat in epics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    I went in Cabal Elite thinking my 52 DD mechanic could do it, and it blew up on a 7.

    I am thinking that the 6 fighter levels with 4 skill points each level, halved by cross class skills means I can do UMD, and one other. To do it right, I need 6 so I can add search. Search is really the skill to beat in epics.
    if you concentrate on search and DD you should be ok. you don't need much in open locks and until traps start sprouting in random places spot is useless with TS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthesponge View Post
    if you concentrate on search and DD you should be ok. you don't need much in open locks and until traps start sprouting in random places spot is useless with TS.
    I like spot on a ranger as it's easy to get a useful spot score with *natural instincts. Fact is, I don't know every quest and sometimes get dumped into elite/epic quests with friends or guildies never having done the quest before as only recently got some of the new packs.

    On my human tempest with 1 fighter, 1 rogue splash I've never had a problem with traps, even in epics.

    Edit: *brain burp
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 03-04-2011 at 03:54 AM.

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    Community Member HellsChaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickpa View Post
    I would still put points in open locks. I also like the extra sneak attack damage, and skill points.

    I thought about going Bard to get just UMD. The reason for UMD is so I can use Pure Good, and race required items. while I like not having the expectations upon me which a rogue level brings, I think rogue is still stronger than bard for my purposes. I will consider it though for Focusing Chant to boost UMD for a minute, and a level 1 buff song. I will think about it.


    Thanks!
    NP! I would agree that the initial 1d6 sneak attack damage is great, but at end game...meh. Of course, the same can be said with focus chant and fasciante, but at least those can be modified with perform skill points. I suggested bard as a possible second choice bc of UMD and the number of skill points is almost equal to that of a rogue!

    Anyway, glad I could be of assistance, or at least get you thinking

  20. #20
    Founder Rickpa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobthesponge View Post
    if you concentrate on search and DD you should be ok. you don't need much in open locks and until traps start sprouting in random places spot is useless with TS.
    Yeah, but UMD is my rogue raison d'etre. I think that for trap skills and UMD, 6 levels of fighter is too much.
    Last edited by Rickpa; 03-04-2011 at 10:16 AM.

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