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  1. #41

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    gear recommendation prior to TR? Would it be just the same things that you'd get on any human wizard if you were doing a tr or is there any special tr item that would aid the progress back up to 20 on a PM?
    Main characters: Usually on Rhyes, Miniryse or Legolass
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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladywolf View Post
    gear recommendation prior to TR? Would it be just the same things that you'd get on any human wizard if you were doing a tr or is there any special tr item that would aid the progress back up to 20 on a PM?
    Mostly standard gear works here. You really won't get into pale master stuff till about 12 anyways. When I tr'd I had made all my queen gear epic already so I didn't have torc, demon consorts, or even blade buckle to use. Any of those are great at appropriate level. Skiver/greenblade are good as is abbot shroud if you have them. A shroud intelligence weapon is nice to get at 12 as of course is a hp and sp item. Reaver cloak and dreamspitter is nice to have. Some of the stuff from lordsmarch quests are ok like the transmuter staff and the dreamspitter equivalent.

    Leveling the pale master was one of the easiest tr's ive ever done. As said much of my lower level raid gear was unavailable because it was already epic and I still zoomed through everything.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  3. #43

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    Phalcon has posted a very good work up of a multi tr'd pale master human here.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=303525

    This is a great example of a build that doesn't sacrifice for umd and what can be done with it. Also the power of multiple tr's to free up spell pen feats and enhancements.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  4. #44

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    interesting...u guys use same greensteel slots i.e. glove and goggles... well that makes it easy for me to decide what slots to use
    Main characters: Usually on Rhyes, Miniryse or Legolass
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  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladywolf View Post
    interesting...u guys use same greensteel slots i.e. glove and goggles... well that makes it easy for me to decide what slots to use
    for me it depends sometimes i have goggles on and sometimes ill swap my conopp over to my boots and use epic spectacles of spirit sight.

    I think gloves is a very strong choice right now for casters. The benefits of glacial set just isn't enough when compared to what you can get out of other setups.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladywolf View Post
    gear recommendation prior to TR? Would it be just the same things that you'd get on any human wizard if you were doing a tr or is there any special tr item that would aid the progress back up to 20 on a PM?
    Shroud of the Abbot if you can get it. It’s a real treat at level 14 and most Abbot raids consider it to be junk loot. (Normally useless loot FTW! I got it on my 1st incarnation.)
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  7. #47
    Community Member Billybobml's Avatar
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    Talking

    Thanks for the post here. Was kind of bored with my AM and the discussion or pros & cons of different items really helped me to pull the trigger and TR him into a PM. Whole different breed of caster.

    I was never a fan of Torc / Con Opp until I read this thread. TR'd the boring AM and at level 12 with the forms these two shine! I was in Sands at the time and I laughed for hours letting mobs chew on me for the SP. The usefulness drops a little in groups but I made up for that by zerging like a barb and soloing a lot of content I wouldn't have on the AM.

    The only thing I miss is the mostly no fail holds. Took both the SF and GSF Enchantment. INT is 40 with no form / ship buffs. Currently the only +2 Enchantment item I have is the Eardweller but I would have to swap it out for +2 INT on spyglass. Any suggestions on how to bump up that score short of get a Spitter / Staff of the Petioner and yugo pots? Currently working on all that but would like a DC above 40 if possible.

    Anyway, thanks again for the thread and it goes without saying but still: +1 rep.

  8. #48
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Tower of Despair stat +X, Int +1 w/ crafted Int +2 on it to replace your Spyglass.
    Litany of the Dead in place of the Spyglass for another +1.
    One of the two +7 Int epic items: Robe of the Diabolist, Staff of Inner Sight.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  9. #49
    Community Member Irinis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    for me it depends sometimes i have goggles on and sometimes ill swap my conopp over to my boots and use epic spectacles of spirit sight.

    I think gloves is a very strong choice right now for casters. The benefits of glacial set just isn't enough when compared to what you can get out of other setups.
    Also putting SP item on gloves or goggles means being able to use Glacier bracers during a TR.
    Last edited by Irinis; 04-22-2011 at 12:09 PM.
    Please split the class forums into REAL subcategories this is a jumbled mess.

  10. #50

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    Hey guys thanks for the discussion here. Expect a big update to the guide next week or shortly after for U9 changes.

    Played around a bit on lammania recently. Trying to figure out where I'm headed with my build as far as elemental choices.

    Acid is out as it has too many lev 4 goodies that I just have no room for.

    Fire seems to be failrly weak overall but it still gives me some good aoe dmg options.

    Cold is similar especially with otilukes getting a big improvement. Polar ray however is less damage on average tha necrotic ray so im kinda iffy here. Spell slot seems ok although lev 4 and 6 are rough.

    Lightning gives some decent aoe and frees up lev 4 for some other stuff. as well as the new dot.

    Force is interesting. Horrid wilting with pm necro dc;s would be nice but targetting of the spell is just putrid.

    I think originally I am going to try a cold/force combo but would love to hear what others plan.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  11. #51
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Hey guys thanks for the discussion here. Expect a big update to the guide next week or shortly after for U9 changes.

    Played around a bit on lammania recently. Trying to figure out where I'm headed with my build as far as elemental choices.

    Acid is out as it has too many lev 4 goodies that I just have no room for.

    Fire seems to be failrly weak overall but it still gives me some good aoe dmg options.

    Cold is similar especially with otilukes getting a big improvement. Polar ray however is less damage on average tha necrotic ray so im kinda iffy here. Spell slot seems ok although lev 4 and 6 are rough.

    Lightning gives some decent aoe and frees up lev 4 for some other stuff. as well as the new dot.

    Force is interesting. Horrid wilting with pm necro dc;s would be nice but targetting of the spell is just putrid.

    I think originally I am going to try a cold/force combo but would love to hear what others plan.
    Well, Polar Ray isn't that much less damage, particularly when you start figuring in saves (and is Necrotic Ray subject to SR? I can't recall). Plus, if you go with the full line, it can end up with a bigger boost from enhancements.

    I haven't been on Lama to play with them, but the two new single target DoTs at level 5 look compelling. I'd say that, if they are good enough, it's probably worth getting into either cold or electric in order to boost one of those.

    Seems to me that Force/electric may be the way to go: Force buffs Ice Storm, Disintegrate (much more damage than Necrotic Ray if you're beating their saves) and Horrid Wilting, while electric gives you the new DoT and Chain Lightning, which cover a lot of the game, including most bosses. But those choices leave you weak vs. Lailat and the Abbot, since both are immune to electricity, and because fire works well on the latter.

    Personally, I'm going to have a hard time giving up firewall, even though everything has resistance or immunity to it. I like the spell, use the back-and-forth functionality of it semi-frequently, and it is still probably the best spell to use on undead that are susceptible to fire damage. I want to like Acid, but as you pointed out too many of the good spells are at level 4, and both CK and Acid Fog are underwhelming as higher level selections.

    Cold gives an AoE DoT, a single target DoT, an AoE nuke and a single target nuke, and 3 of those don't allow saves either, so the damage is consistent. A lot of stuff has cold resist, but most things don't have enough for the spells to lose much of their value. I don't think any of this works on Raiyum or the Abbot.

    Electricity gives a weird AoE nuke, a single target DoT and two weird AoE nukes. I don't think any of this works on Raiyum, Lailat or the Abbot. Also, all but one of these comes with a Reflex save.

    Fire gives 2 AoE DoTs, a (potential) single target DoT and 2 AoE nukes. Two of these work on Raiyum and three work on the Abbot. None work on Velah. All of these come with Reflex saves, though the one on the AoE DoTs aren't really significant.

    Acid gives a single target DoT, a sort of slow-release AoE nuke and 2 AoE DoTs, one of which doesn't work against bosses. This has one spell that works on the Abbot and none that work on Raiyum.I think only one of these has a save.

    Force gives a weak AoE nuke, a mediocre single target nuke, a powerful single target nuke, an AoE DoT and an AoE nuke. Does HW have a save? Disintegrate has a painful Fort for 1/8th damage.

    Level 4 is brutal now, though. I've proposed a couple of times that Burning Blood and NEB get moved to level 5, and there has been some support for that, but no dev comments, so I don't expect that will transpire. That leaves us with 3 open spots for some combination of DDoor, Stoneskin, firewall, Ice Storm, Acid Rain, Burning Blood and Crushing Despair (I think something else got buffed as well to make it competitive, but can't recall what). Certainly on less geared casters CD becomes a more important choice as it helps bridge the gap on your DCs.

    I'm thinking I may go with 1 rank each in all of them, and then probably boost Cold and Force, though I may play around a bit with Electric just for a change of page for a while.
    Last edited by sephiroth1084; 04-22-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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  12. #52
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    OK just to clarify since you didn't mention it...Half-ELves, Human and Drow all end up with the same spell DC (assuming max int stat) because at maximum possible standing Int Drow end up with an odd number

    Also I really wish the elven arcanum had the +1 spell pen stuff whn I first crwated my mage because if they did i wouldn't have rolled warforged (I also wish someone had warned me how ugly the 3 or 4 docent skins are...even the obviously caster focused Docents don't look anything like robes)...oh well guess I get to start ANOTHER wizard at lvl 1 (or they could just add race change) just so I can wear a robe :P.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 04-22-2011 at 10:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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  13. #53
    Community Member themaniacman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Hey guys thanks for the discussion here. Expect a big update to the guide next week or shortly after for U9 changes.

    Played around a bit on lammania recently. Trying to figure out where I'm headed with my build as far as elemental choices.

    Acid is out as it has too many lev 4 goodies that I just have no room for.

    Fire seems to be failrly weak overall but it still gives me some good aoe dmg options.

    Cold is similar especially with otilukes getting a big improvement. Polar ray however is less damage on average tha necrotic ray so im kinda iffy here. Spell slot seems ok although lev 4 and 6 are rough.

    Lightning gives some decent aoe and frees up lev 4 for some other stuff. as well as the new dot.

    Force is interesting. Horrid wilting with pm necro dc;s would be nice but targetting of the spell is just putrid.

    I think originally I am going to try a cold/force combo but would love to hear what others plan.
    which would u choose now that the shroud of the lich is gone 2 lvl18 PM would u choose shroud of the wraith or shroud of the vampire i rlly have no idea what 2 do 4 mine please look at my guys character PM is called thedemons it is lvl6 but id lik 2 c ur input.
    Last edited by themaniacman; 04-22-2011 at 10:55 PM. Reason: rlly 4got 2 put in

  14. #54
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themaniacman View Post
    which would u choose now that the shroud of the lich is gone 2 lvl18 PM would u choose shroud of the wraith or shroud of the vampire i rlly have no idea what 2 do 4 mine
    I think it's a real choice at level 12 now. Wraith is the defensive choice (not sure how I'd feel about having Featherfall on all the time, though), while Vampire is the sort of utility choice, since it buffs your enchantment spells (likely to be using these a lot at least until level 13 and Finger of Death) and your UMD if you're using that. Previously, the obvious choice was Lich since it gave you both boosts to offense and defense.

    At level 18, there's actually some weight on getting all 3 of the good forms for different situations, though I'll probably either go with just Lich or Lich and Wraith form as I don't think I'll need +1 Enchantment DC so badly as to give up everything on Lich form.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by themaniacman View Post
    which would u choose now that the shroud of the lich is gone 2 lvl18 PM would u choose shroud of the wraith or shroud of the vampire i rlly have no idea what 2 do 4 mine please look at my guys character PM is called thedemons it is lvl6 but id lik 2 c ur input.
    For leveling purposes I'd probably go wraith until 18. Incorp and faster speed are great for high speed zerging through content. Enchantment spells are rarely an issue until later in the game due to lack of need for crowd control.

    At end game I don't think I will take vampire due to still wanting lich form 95% of the time. I may still keep wraith as it is unique in what it does and pretty invaluable in a few cases. However I may just go lich and not need mental toughness freeing up another feat for spell focus somewhere.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Well, Polar Ray isn't that much less damage, particularly when you start figuring in saves (and is Necrotic Ray subject to SR? I can't recall). Plus, if you go with the full line, it can end up with a bigger boost from enhancements.

    I haven't been on Lama to play with them, but the two new single target DoTs at level 5 look compelling. I'd say that, if they are good enough, it's probably worth getting into either cold or electric in order to boost one of those.

    Seems to me that Force/electric may be the way to go: Force buffs Ice Storm, Disintegrate (much more damage than Necrotic Ray if you're beating their saves) and Horrid Wilting, while electric gives you the new DoT and Chain Lightning, which cover a lot of the game, including most bosses. But those choices leave you weak vs. Lailat and the Abbot, since both are immune to electricity, and because fire works well on the latter.

    Personally, I'm going to have a hard time giving up firewall, even though everything has resistance or immunity to it. I like the spell, use the back-and-forth functionality of it semi-frequently, and it is still probably the best spell to use on undead that are susceptible to fire damage. I want to like Acid, but as you pointed out too many of the good spells are at level 4, and both CK and Acid Fog are underwhelming as higher level selections.

    Cold gives an AoE DoT, a single target DoT, an AoE nuke and a single target nuke, and 3 of those don't allow saves either, so the damage is consistent. A lot of stuff has cold resist, but most things don't have enough for the spells to lose much of their value. I don't think any of this works on Raiyum or the Abbot.

    Electricity gives a weird AoE nuke, a single target DoT and two weird AoE nukes. I don't think any of this works on Raiyum, Lailat or the Abbot. Also, all but one of these comes with a Reflex save.

    Fire gives 2 AoE DoTs, a (potential) single target DoT and 2 AoE nukes. Two of these work on Raiyum and three work on the Abbot. None work on Velah. All of these come with Reflex saves, though the one on the AoE DoTs aren't really significant.

    Acid gives a single target DoT, a sort of slow-release AoE nuke and 2 AoE DoTs, one of which doesn't work against bosses. This has one spell that works on the Abbot and none that work on Raiyum.I think only one of these has a save.

    Force gives a weak AoE nuke, a mediocre single target nuke, a powerful single target nuke, an AoE DoT and an AoE nuke. Does HW have a save? Disintegrate has a painful Fort for 1/8th damage.

    Level 4 is brutal now, though. I've proposed a couple of times that Burning Blood and NEB get moved to level 5, and there has been some support for that, but no dev comments, so I don't expect that will transpire. That leaves us with 3 open spots for some combination of DDoor, Stoneskin, firewall, Ice Storm, Acid Rain, Burning Blood and Crushing Despair (I think something else got buffed as well to make it competitive, but can't recall what). Certainly on less geared casters CD becomes a more important choice as it helps bridge the gap on your DCs.

    I'm thinking I may go with 1 rank each in all of them, and then probably boost Cold and Force, though I may play around a bit with Electric just for a change of page for a while.
    Pretty much my thoughts here seph, although I have to say firewall has become a pretty rarely cast spell for me unless soloing for scrolls in epics. The only place I think I would miss it is in wiz king epic. Dbf is nice but not sure I can't achieve the same with oitilukes although it does have a slightly lower radius but damage is still the same.

    As for wiz king, halt undead still applies a helplessness state to undead so even a couple points into fire coupled with 150% damage and half mob hitpoints means it would still burn through that quest.

    I am thinking maybe max cold with a splash into both fire and force to start with and see how that works.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  17. #57
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Pretty much my thoughts here seph, although I have to say firewall has become a pretty rarely cast spell for me unless soloing for scrolls in epics. The only place I think I would miss it is in wiz king epic. Dbf is nice but not sure I can't achieve the same with oitilukes although it does have a slightly lower radius but damage is still the same.

    As for wiz king, halt undead still applies a helplessness state to undead so even a couple points into fire coupled with 150% damage and half mob hitpoints means it would still burn through that quest.

    I am thinking maybe max cold with a splash into both fire and force to start with and see how that works.
    Ah! I didn't know about Halt causing the helpless state on undead. I think I'd still spend the 1 AP on electricity and acid for a 20% boost in those for the few situations where you might want to be using them. At the very least, it gives you a strong option at level 5 to double up on DoTs for bosses.

    Honestly, I kind of feel like Force doesn't dovetail as nicely with Cold as some other elements do. Force isn't benefiting your AoE DoT because Cold is already doing that, and you have Otiluke's and Polar Ray for basically the same functions as Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting, though Disintegrate is your big weapon vs. constructs and some undead, though it was good before getting AP dropped into it, whereas acid and, to a lesser degree, fire give you a stacking AoE DoT to use with Ice Storm, electric and acid give you stacking DoTs to use with Niac's Biting Cold and otherwise open up some other options.

    I feel like the best use of Force is to get Ice Storm, Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting to shore up gaps in another element or complement another element's strengths. It doesn't do this too much for Cold, especially on a PM who could be taking Necrotic Ray as their secondary single target nuke in quests without a lot of undead or constructs.

    I think I feel like Force combos better with anything but Cold, and Cold combos better with Electric, Acid and Fire, probably in that order. I'd still probably spent 1 AP on Force if I wasn't focusing on it, and I am titillated at the idea of +50%, crit-enhanced Disintegrates!
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  18. #58
    Community Member bbcjoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Dwarf--Don't
    It's a pretty good choice if you are going to use a shield. You would be surprised how many foes a Dwarf PM can take while defending with his Death Aura on.
    It's tough not being able to heal yourself like WF in the start of the game, but with the upcoming update and shroud of the zombie, it will be a lot better.

  19. #59
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbcjoke View Post
    It's a pretty good choice if you are going to use a shield. You would be surprised how many foes a Dwarf PM can take while defending with his Death Aura on.
    It's tough not being able to heal yourself like WF in the start of the game, but with the upcoming update and shroud of the zombie, it will be a lot better.
    Especially if you can fit in shield mastery -15% Damage FTW cross that with the incorp from wraith form, your undead immunities, your death aura and possibly evasion (2 rogue or 2 monk) and your nigh invulnerable.

    Now if only Turbine would hurry up and release Race change so I can embrace the way of the flesh and wear robes for once. Either that or make at least named caster docents actually I dunno LOOK LIKE ROBES!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbcjoke View Post
    It's a pretty good choice if you are going to use a shield. You would be surprised how many foes a Dwarf PM can take while defending with his Death Aura on.
    It's tough not being able to heal yourself like WF in the start of the game, but with the upcoming update and shroud of the zombie, it will be a lot better.
    It's really kind of overkill in my opinion. I can already tank multiple epic mobs pretty easily. Non-epic the sky is the limit.

    Dwarf just doesn't offer the spellcasting benefits other races do and it's defensive benefits are overkill.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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