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  1. #21
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutronStar View Post
    Bret & Shaamis:

    Clearly your definition of what is Technical is completely different from mine.

    Let me put it this way:

    I can name several guitarists who, in their prime, could play anything the metal guitarists can play BUT the reverse would NOT be true.

    I do not wish to get into a battle about which guitar player is better than whom. Suffice it to say one of the guys I would name was named by Guitar Player magazine as the Best Guitarist for 5 straight years. No one else has ever done that. Some of the other guys I would mention are also recognized LEGENDARY guitar players.

    I'm sure the metal guitar players you would name are very good at their style but let's not delude ourselves regarding their supposed transcendant technical ability. That is reserved for the TRUE masters.
    Again you make assumptions and generalizations. You speculate but cant discuss what you speculate on. You make groundless statments with nothin to back them up. If you are going to make an argument make one. You dont know if any of these non mentioned guitar players could play anything a metal guitarist can play or that said metal player couldn't. You come off ignorant again. What makes them "legendary"? Do you think that some of the players Ill name wont have the technique? Lets not delude ourselves into thinking your players will be better than the ones Ill name. Even though that is exactly what you are doing. Some players in metal are "true masters". And Guitar player is trendy guitar mag that caters to the mainstream. They flow with trends like tides. I hardly take what they say seriously.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  2. #22
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutronStar View Post
    Bret & Shaamis:

    Clearly your definition of what is Technical is completely different from mine.

    Let me put it this way:

    I can name several guitarists who, in their prime, could play anything the metal guitarists can play BUT the reverse would NOT be true.

    I do not wish to get into a battle about which guitar player is better than whom. Suffice it to say one of the guys I would name was named by Guitar Player magazine as the Best Guitarist for 5 straight years.
    Steve Martin?

    Edit: My bad, that's banjo.

  3. #23
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Consumer View Post
    I read them and picked out specifically intensity from your post. You will see I avoided pointing out the technical aspect as I know that it is technical.



    Playing really fast with a drop tuned guitar is not everything there is to intensity. Pot calling the kettle black on the repetitive, repetition is featured in all genres.


    You could also say something very similar about death metal just by substituting breakdowns for something else.


    You must be famous by now then.


    It being generic or predictable does not reduce the intensity. However them being generic would indicate that they are unpopular and do not differentiate from the rest of the genre which is clearly far from the case, a quick example is the raping of the china cymbal in comparison to other bands. If it were generic you could say the same about a large amount of death metal.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5JY0lVpBYg

    I would guess bands would write for the break down because and I'm going out on a limb here, the genre contains breakdowns and breakdowns are popular!
    Please show me where I said that all there was to intenstiy was playing really fast with a down tuned guitar. Oh wait you cant because I never said it. I said I liked the intensity. Learn to read what is actually written. Not insinuate assume or draw a conclusion. I write for face value.

    Not nearly as much in most sub genres of metal as compared to dub step.

    Like what exactly? And what form of death metal would you refer to? Seeing as ABR is a deathcore band. IE melodic death metal with breakdowns. So you lump a band you continue to praise with the death metal scene you claim you could say something about but fail to do.

    Nope I just know what I am talking about and have been around the scene for a long time.

    To me it does reduce the intensity. Generic has nothing to do with popularity, and popularity has nothing to do with talent, ability, or song writing. They sound incredibly similar to a ton of other boring generic deathcore clones. Heavy use of china cymbals has been done for ages. Rich Christy, Mike Portnoy, and Sean Reinhardt have been using them alot for years. As do guys like Nicko McBrain. It doesnt make ABR stand out.

    The sub genre contains breakdowns. Again with the popularity argument. It doesnt mean much. The heavy use of breakdowns as a substitute for quality song writing. Please if you are going to debate with me, come across like you have a clue.
    Last edited by lord_of_rage; 02-10-2011 at 09:51 PM.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  4. #24
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Khyber, where even the harmless jokes turn into raging drama fights!
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  5. #25
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Can we please see a breakdown of the numbers that you guys are arguing about?

    I think that a spreadsheet would be helpful here.

  6. #26
    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Here Eric you can never hope to be this brutal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXFPR...eature=related

    Disclaimer. If you cant handle extreme metal and drums in excess of 240bpm please dont click the link.
    So doing something really really fast makes you awesome?

    If that is the case I am a god in bed!!!!!!
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

  7. #27
    Community Member NeutronStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Again you make assumptions and generalizations. You speculate but cant discuss what you speculate on. You make groundless statments with nothin to back them up. If you are going to make an argument make one. You dont know if any of these non mentioned guitar players could play anything a metal guitarist can play or that said metal player couldn't. You come off ignorant again. What makes them "legendary"? Do you think that some of the players Ill name wont have the technique? Lets not delude ourselves into thinking your players will be better than the ones Ill name. Even though that is exactly what you are doing. Some players in metal are "true masters". And Guitar player is trendy guitar mag that caters to the mainstream. They flow with trends like tides. I hardly take what they say seriously.
    Sorry Bret but your overly-defensiveness is telling.

    If you don't know who some of the LEGENDARY guitar players are, you're either kidding yourself or you may not really know I suppose. If it's the latter, just say so and I'll post a few names.

  8. #28
    Community Member NeutronStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    Can we please see a breakdown of the numbers that you guys are arguing about?

    I think that a spreadsheet would be helpful here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robi3.0 View Post
    So doing something really really fast makes you awesome?

    If that is the case I am a god in bed!!!!!!
    ROFFLE!

    +1 for both of you!


    EDIT: Sorry Pope, I have to spread some more around first before I can hit you again.

  9. #29
    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    LMAO

    Meant Coheed and Cambria
    Noob everyone knows short hand for Coheed and Cambria is Co&Ca

    also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpXI6cvRbrc <---- Hmmm.... sweet sweet goodness
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

  10. #30
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutronStar View Post
    ROFFLE!

    +1 for both of you!


    EDIT: Sorry Pope, I have to spread some more around first before I can hit you again.
    It's ok, I got him for you.
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  11. #31
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutronStar View Post
    Sorry Bret but your overly-defensiveness is telling.

    If you don't know who some of the LEGENDARY guitar players are, you're either kidding yourself or you may not really know I suppose. If it's the latter, just say so and I'll post a few names.
    Im sorry I must have missed all my over defensiveness with your groundless generalizations dominating your posts. Could you please point it out for me.I dont know who your toons are, so why are you using my first name like you know me?

    I have an idea who some of your "legendary guitar players" are.And if they are who I think they are your arguments are completely false. If you drop Hendrix I will laugh myself silly. A man who's technique was really bad and couldnt tune his own guitar. The problem with "Legendary guitar players" is alot of them have left us. They are not around anymore. The techniques used then compared to now are quite different. Players are far more advanced these days then most of the players of the 60s and 70s. And lot of those players couldnt play the alleged" everything a metal guitarist could play and more". I await your backing up all of your claims.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  12. #32
    Community Member NeutronStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Im sorry I must have missed all my over defensiveness...Could you please point it out for me.
    The ferocity you show in your indignance clearly shows your defensiveness.



    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    with your groundless generalizations dominating your posts.
    They are groundless to you only because you do not yet know what I know. Read on.



    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    I dont know who your toons are, so why are you using my first name like you know me?
    Ah, then I have an advantage over you. I know who you are but you aren't sure who I am. Good. I'll keep my advantage. I will say we have grouped together many times however and I enjoyed those groups.



    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    I have an idea who some of your "legendary guitar players" are.And if they are who I think they are your arguments are completely false. If you drop Hendrix I will laugh myself silly. A man who's technique was really bad and couldnt tune his own guitar.
    Hendrix? Seriously? You wound me sir. Please, I know a lot more than you give me credit for. In fact, I feel quite insulted actually.



    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    The problem with "Legendary guitar players" is alot of them have left us. They are not around anymore. The techniques used then compared to now are quite different. Players are far more advanced these days then most of the players of the 60s and 70s. And lot of those players couldnt play the alleged" everything a metal guitarist could play and more". I await your backing up all of your claims.
    Your so-called newer techniques of today's gutarists are no substitution for manual dexterity, senses of melody, musical creativity and rythm. Today's metal guitarists certainly have different styles than many of the legends but the "metal style" in no way makes them "more advanced." It's about the music. That will never change.

    As far as whether the legends can play today's metal guitar parts are concerned, such a thing has been demonstrated to me. I went to a concert (it was a very small and intimate affair at the Theater of Living Arts in Philadelphia about 10 years ago) where one of my "legends" played a one man show and after the show concluded, I actually got a chance to ask him about whether the stuff the metal guys (and indeed stuff played by guys like Eddie Van Halen) play was easy or hard to play. The guy I went to see actually started to play some of the kind of stuff in some of the videos earlier in this thread and it was clear it was VERY EASY for him to do. In fact, he broke it down quickly and made us understand there was a CLEAR difference in difficulty between the stuff he (and others like him do) and what the metal guys do.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but I have seen it with my own eyes.
    Last edited by NeutronStar; 02-10-2011 at 11:40 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #33
    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    IDk legendary or not I will take style over all else.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZya...eature=related

    If you can't tell I am talking the drummer.
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

  14. #34
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robi3.0 View Post
    IDk legendary or not I will take style over all else.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZya...eature=related

    If you can't tell I am talking the drummer.
    This dude is a trip. Mike Portnoy from the mighty Dream Theater had great things to say about the vid. I was impressed as well
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  15. #35
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutronStar View Post
    The ferocity you show in your indignance clearly shows your defensiveness.





    They are groundless to you only because you do not yet know what I know. Read on.





    Ah, then I have an advantage over you. I know who you are but you aren't sure who I am. Good. I'll keep my advantage. I will say we have grouped together many times however and I enjoyed those groups.





    Hendrix? Seriously? You wound me sir. Please, I know a lot more than you give me credit for. In fact, I feel quite insulted actually.





    Your so-called newer techniques of today's gutarists are no substitution for manual dexterity, senses of melody, musical creativity and rythm. Today's metal guitarists certainly have different styles than many of the legends but the "metal style" in no way makes them "more advanced." It's about the music. That will never change.

    As far as whether the legends can play today's metal guitar parts are concerned, such a thing has been demonstrated to me. I went to a concert (it was a very small and intimate affair at the Theater of Living Arts in Philadelphia about 10 years ago) where one of my "legends" played a one man show and after the show concluded, I actually got a chance to ask him about whether the stuff the metal guys (and indeed stuff played by guys like Eddie Van Halen) play was easy or hard to play. The guy I went to see actually started to play some of the kind of stuff in some of the videos earlier in this thread and it was clear it was VERY EASY for him to do. In fact, he broke it down quickly and made us understand there was a CLEAR difference in difficulty between the stuff he (and others like him do) and what the metal guys do.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but I have seen it with my own eyes.
    Dude stop playing games. Be straight forward like I always have the respect to do. And Van I fret tap and not much else Halen really? Thats your target? This is a joke right? And again I doubt it. Prove it. When did I ever mention todays metal guitarists? I think I said metal guitarists. But you will assume what you willBack it up or shut up. But you will just play more games. Have fun man.
    Last edited by lord_of_rage; 02-11-2011 at 12:43 AM.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  16. #36
    Community Member Itachi83's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9en1plZNKI
    or
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poFnZ...eature=related

    I do vocals for a Technical Deathmetal band, mainly Highs, harsh style.


    You are correct about the diversity of the genre.
    I like and listen to most genres of metal, including Metalcore/Deathcore(Whitechapel Post Somatic Defilment is my favorite band right now), but I have to say that I am pretty sick of the repetition of certain breakdowns.


    Dubstep is sick haha.
    ==S t o r m L o r d s==

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  17. #37
    Community Member Robi3.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    This dude is a trip. Mike Portnoy from the mighty Dream Theater had great things to say about the vid. I was impressed as well
    The guy is a blast to see live. He is a real entertainer, and a pretty damn good dummer.
    there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans on seeing tomorrow then there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap.

  18. #38
    Community Member SoloPhalanx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Again I never claimed the song to be the be all end all.I posted it as a joke. Aussie asked a general question. Not a band specific question. So I gave a general genre spanning answer. But it doesnt shock me that you would attempt to take a shot at me, and fail to real comprehend what Ive written in multiple posts in the thread before you posted. But I will start posting examples of what I consider quality metal if thats what is required. Dub step is far less intense than metal. And can be highly repetitive IMO. Metalcore breakdowns are tired and overused. Too many bands write for the breakdown these days and it detracts from song writing. August Burns Red have never been all that impressive in my eyes. Their songs are predictable and completely generic. Again I have been involved in metal for over 20 years as a musician, promoter, and writer. Ive watched the scene esp the extreme scene, IE death metal in all of its millions of sub genres, Black Metal, industrial metal,....... grow and bud since the late 80s and early 90s. Ive been there lived it, studied it, played it, and written about it.

    The first link you posted for ABR is a text book example of generic breakdown driven "Deathcore". Wow two breakdowns in the first 40 seconds. Really? Song writing 101 anyone? The break at the 2 min mark is so predictable. And its not even a great breakdown. The rest of the stuff is pretty much similar. They arnt anything Id rate high.

    Technical Death Metal

    Devolved Fractured http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJgkIFRuYyM

    Arsis Face Of My Innocence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHC9w7pCIMQ

    Vehemence She never noticed me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NNCo...8D29B7E2129A81

    Cryptopsy Cold Hate Warm Blood http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMd8BN1Xt_8

    Death Lack Of Comprehension.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KTK0...eature=related The one and only. A band that is by far one of the most innovative technical and progressive death metal bands to ever exist.

    Opeth Porcelain Heart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfT1A5Caq84

    This isnt even the beginnings of a sample of metal or even tech/ progressive metal. But its all I have time for at the moment. As it seems I need to post some. Ill post more when I have the time. The above bands are true innovators of that scene. All have made an impact in the style of music that they play. All have been imitated and copied. You can hear Vehemence in most Deathcore. The tones, the phrasings, the progressions. I have yet to open the can of worms is most progressive metal or the NWOSDM scene of the mid to late 90s from which Metalcore and Deathcore have taken a heavy handed influence to the point of blatent riff worship. But I will at some point.

    I await your reply Mr Lavine.
    If you really think that most metal players are more skilled then say, jazz guitarists, then I'd like to congratulate you for "over 20 years" of wasted time, as you clearly didn't learn anything.

    Also, I'm interested to know about this writing you call, mind giving us some links to your articles?

    The way you claim Industrial Metal to be a sub-genre of Death Metal doesn't sound good to me, and I don't even know much about metal.

    PS: First time I post on these forums and it's on a subject that has nothing to do with DDO. I feel a true Khyber player.

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