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  1. #61
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    I'm not hunting through all of those just to find your numbers.

    Didn't use Barrage because my computer is down.
    If your neither willing to look at accurate numbers, nor do your own, nor even acknoledge your quickly tossed together figures are so incredibly inaccurate, then no I won't be copying and pasting anything for you. The OP has a good suggestion that would put it in a place where it wouldn't just be a boring unnoticable upgrade from a lvl12 weapon, and thats enough.

    And to call an esos broken, just shows a total lack of respect for what epics are, and what this threads trying to accomplish anyways. The devs acknoledges the old x4 crit version as broken, it was fixed to what it is now. If you can't agree with such a assesment, i don't think the devs will agree with any of your suggestions either since yours all seem to be designed from a different realm of whats balanced then theirs.

    And this will be my last reply to you here, because you doing exactly what I blantantly asked people nto to do in the OP.. Putting down others suggestions, suggestion nerfs are the way to go, and other nonsense. Only going to take suggestion from people who have original ideas that will benefit the game, and don't simply try to argue others ideas. They can be for the same items were discussing, but they should be constructive original ideas. Yours arent.
    Last edited by Shade; 05-22-2011 at 03:41 AM.

  2. #62
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    If your neither willing to look at accurate numbers, nor do your own, nor even acknoledge your quickly tossed together figures are so incredibly inaccurate, then no I won't be copying and pasting anything for you.
    I'm willing to look, but not hunt.

    The OP has a good suggestion that would put it in a place where it wouldn't just be a boring unnoticable upgrade from a lvl12 weapon, and thats enough.
    What? x4 multiplier and a Greater Bane? I like the way Genasi upgraded the weapon. For many players, it isn't an upgrade, it's instead of, since it takes less time to make one of these upon hitting level 20 than it does to make a Min II after starting on Shroud at level 16 or 17.

    Also, looking at greensteel weapons as ML 12 items is disingenuous.

    And to call an esos broken, just shows a total lack of respect for what epics are, and what this threads trying to accomplish anyways. The devs acknoledges the old x4 crit version as broken, it was fixed to what it is now. If you can't agree with such a assesment, i don't think the devs will agree with any of your suggestions either since yours all seem to be designed from a different realm of whats balanced then theirs.
    Lack of respect? I'm supposed to respect quests and their items now? What respect is due the Carnival pack? The quests aren't total cake walks, but they're not hard either.

    And, honestly, given the other weapons we've been seeing, I'd wonder which of us is closer to being on the same page as the devs as far as what they consider balanced. They nerfed the ESoS before, and it's still miles ahead of everything else. You don't want to talk about it, fine, but don't ***** about other weapons being no good because the ESoS is better.

    As far as useful suggestions...I made a bunch earlier in the thread, which look like they made it into the OP. I merely commented here on your comments about the EAG, because Genasi set to improve it, looks like he did, and you tore it down. Put up the numbers.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  3. #63
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    The new epic Antique Greataxe is miles ahead of a Min2 against high AC DR bosses (mainly Turigulon, maybe Lailat depending upon whether you have a bard or not), a fair bit ahead against DR bosses with high acid resistance (post U9, that's Horoth, Suulo, Harry but not Lailat), and a smidgen ahead against DR bosses with no acid resist (Lailat, Keradi).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  4. #64
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    The new epic Antique Greataxe is miles ahead of a Min2 against high AC DR bosses (mainly Turigulon, maybe Lailat depending upon whether you have a bard or not), a fair bit ahead against DR bosses with high acid resistance (post U9, that's Horoth, Suulo, Harry but not Lailat), and a smidgen ahead against DR bosses with no acid resist (Lailat, Keradi).
    1. There is no new epic antique greataxe. There's suggested upgrades, and Genasi's tenative planned version, but until its actually live.. No, theres no new one.

    2. Why not actaully post some figures instead of making things up that directly contradict what i've already posted in your own thread?

    Meh fine I'll re do some of my numbers here based on Genasis new version (which just basically matches your suggestion, tho makes it good aligned for free..)
    Character: Well use one similar to my tr barb, someone very likely to want/take the time to get/use to use it:
    18/2 halforc barb. 70 damage mod (norm for average geared with bard song, or max geared without song) seeker 6:
    Target: Epic Lailat: (DR20, no acid resist, 0% Fort)
    Mineral 2 Greataxe (holy/acid/acid):
    Bonus dice:
    On hit: 3d6 (2d6 good, 1d6 acid)
    On crit: 4d10 (2d10 acidburst, 2d10 acidblast)
    On 20: 4d6 (blast)

    Final Averaged Swing
    115.375 = 100.125(Weapon) + 15.25(Bonus)

    Current Epic Antique Greataxe (upgraded with good augment):
    Bonus dice:
    On hit: 1d6 (force)
    On crit: 2d10 (force)

    Final Averaged Swing
    108.575 = 104.15(Weapon) + 4.425(Bonus)

    So right now: about 6-7% less dps. .. Considering ESoS is over 40% more dps (with dr break augment), we should be looking for around 10-25% more dps to be inbetween those.

    Genasi tenative upgrade (3d10 base, +2 from righteous):
    Final Averaged Swing
    114.9 = 110.475(Weapon) + 4.425(Bonus)

    Slightly worse on the base numbers, but that doesn't factor glancing blows/fb bonus, which would be very slightly higher on the epic antique since they favor base damage over bonus dice. So it would win by maybe 1-2%.. vs a easier to get level12 weapon. Not very epic. Adding a extreme power augment, woulc bring it up another 1%, still not very exciting.

    "miles behind"
    For most character that would actaully manage to get/use this.. No. Turilulons AC is not high enough to cause me to miss with a mineral2, without destruction, without bard songs. Take the few points of to hit I have ahead of your average player (I do have the full -11 power attack and no +to hit gear at all), and they will hit fine with destruction.

    How far is it actually behind if they both hit on a 2:
    Taking off all acid damage:
    Mineral 2 - no acid:
    Final Averaged Swing
    109.15 = 100.125(Weapon) + 9.025001(Bonus)

    .. 5%, add a couple for the missing glancing blow blow/fb bonus, and it's roughly 7%.
    It's good its ahead by some amount, but it's still not very epic.

    Let's look at an actually epic weapon on the same character:
    ESoS vs no dr:
    Final Averaged Swing
    156.525 = 156.525(Weapon) + 0(Bonus)

    36% ahead of min. But it's massive base damage makes glancing blows/fb matter much more, about a 5% increase:
    41%.

    How about on lailat.. without dr break. To be fair here ill calc in the glancing blows:
    Mineral2:
    3d6 + 75 . Average = 86 damage. Char has 50% glancing blow dmg = So 43 on 3/4 swings. So 32.25 average.
    Final Averaged Swing against target, glancing blows factored:
    146.0125 = 100.125(Weapon) + 45.8875(Bonus

    ESoS:
    5d6 +80, average = 98. /2 = 49 damage glance.
    DR applies to glance, so works out to 21.75 average after factoring in the 3/4 swings and 20 DR.
    Final Averaged Swing against target, glancing blows factored:
    158.1875 = 137.525(Weapon) + 20.6625(Bonus)

    Conclusion:
    So the new epic antique you get roughly 2% ahead on lailat vs a mineral 2- pathetic ... If like me you don't run pit fiend raids much anymore and already have a min2, any good incentive to get the axe is gone right there.
    Roughly 5% on horoth - boring. And behind vs say a lit2 on trash.
    ESoS is over 40% ahead for when its breakin DR... Where epics should be.

    Even in a scenario where it should lose, when it's not breakin dr vs lailat, it's still over 8% ahead of a mineral 2, and even still ahead of the possible new epic anqitue.

    If it's gona have any place in the hands of a truely epic barb, it should at least beat a ESoS in places where it's designed to - breaking DR on demon/devil bosses. It doesn't for lailat, and doesn't change things vs Devils on hard/elite. It fails to change where the weapon would be used, and fail to be truely epic.

    My suggested change (epic lawful outsider bane) would have it win on pitfiends in all cases. But not be very ideal for say Lailat, as that should be where the Hellstroke greataxe shines. And still be miles behind on every else vs Esos where it should be (even trash outsiders)

    I imagine Genasi is going to stick with his version.. Which is fine, it at least gives its some minor purpose. Just hope for when he gets around to the Hellstroke greataxe, it gets a more impressive, and epic upgrade it deserves.
    Last edited by Shade; 05-22-2011 at 05:20 AM.

  5. #65
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    First a question: is a HotD paladin immune to the neg level from the demon consort bracers?

    1 epic stinkpelts hide. No one uses it. No one cares about it. Must not be a real epic.

    2 epic dog whistle. Want more uses between shrines... maybe regen uses like epic eternal wands. And give it augment summons like the proposed change gensai put out to roderics epic wand.
    Last edited by Havok.cry; 05-22-2011 at 07:28 AM.

  6. #66
    Community Member Boromirs's Avatar
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    I agree I hope Epic Hellstroke gets a TRULY epic upgrade. I want something to give eSoS a run for it's money, I am so tired of seeing that long black candy cane in my hand ..every ..SINGLE.. TIME.

    Suggestions for Hellstroke:

    +Raise base dam to 3d10
    + x4 crit multiplier
    + Greater Maiming
    +15% doublestrike

  7. #67
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    Hellstroke Greataxe and Epic Greatclub of the Scrag, I always like bludgeon weapons, but in this game I don't think I've seen a single one that has made me even consider switching from slashing, plus, that thing is ******* huge.

  8. #68
    Community Member IanYang's Avatar
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    1) Epic Robe of Fire should has Superior Combustion VIII instead of VI. You know what I mean. We have already wore Superior Potency VI gear. Therefore Superior Combustion VI is pointless.

    2) Please fix the Epic Will Save +3 of Epic Illusionist's Garb and Epic Raven's Sight. It is broken and doesn't work.

  9. #69
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    For the most part, things like stat bonuses should always be a min of +7, any Natural armor bonus should be +6 and protection bonuses should be +6. Any singular save bonus shoud be an epic bonus +1 to +3, lores should be minimum major lore, up to Superior Lore, spell damage incresers should probably be min superior up to spell level 8, 9 is a bit more iffy.

    Make the items actually give epic bonuses instead of the same thing you can get from standard items (or in the case of NA, from a level 12 Ranger), and while you're at it, change the +4 prot crystal to +5 (resistance can probably stay at +4, either slot it at that, or fit an item with +5)

    Not all epic items need to be at the same level of the Epic SoS, but they should at least make you think what character can best use them, or what character you could make to use them. Nothing worse than pulling a shard/seal of something to complete the set and just chuck it in a bag, never to look at it again because no-one wants it.

    I would also like to see the exceptional hp and sp bonuses available somewhere else, even if some items had +20/+100 on them, and the lower ones were available as augments (+10hp colourless, +15hp/+50sp Yellow) It would give us more options, to either make a shroud item how we want it or get the bonuses on an epic item, or a combination of the two. +10hp in a colourless slot, +15/+20hp on an item with something else in the first tier.

  10. #70
    Community Member BlackPantha2's Avatar
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    Greater Siren's Ward is currently giving +1 insight to saves instead of +2

    [Unplanned|Unintended|Unequipped].Revenants.Khyber

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