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Thread: Dear Pew Pews'

  1. #1
    Community Member Chris79's Avatar
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    Default Dear Pew Pews'

    Seems this is my 100th post. Usually I post all light and fluffy, so lets turn things around a little bit shall we


    Hi Pew Pews (ranged rangers)

    My name is Drilltex, I'm your run of the mill melee class, I could be that dumb barbarian, shifty rogue, pretentious monk, arrogant paladin, boring fighter, or the eerily effeminate bard who makes inappropriate comments and keeps asking 'When will you draw MY bow...' We're all different, but we have one thing in common.... we hate it when you don't know how to kite.

    So from the melees of DDO, I'd like this post to be your one stop shop for advice on how to kite effectively.

    Please, those of you who know how to kite, please feel free to post, for the good of the community, for the sake of those melee who could no longer stand it. I don't pretend to know how to do it well, but I know bad kiting when I see it!

    I'll start the ball rolling with some home truths:

    When we chase your mobs, we get a -4 to hit.
    When you kite the mobs into more mobs, we may get pwned (DA red ain't good for anyone!).
    When you die cos you couldn't handle the agro you brought down, we lose 10% xp.


    Thank you for your time, I'm sure the following thread replies will contain all the information you need to turn you from a 'Damn pew pew!' to a 'Daaaaaaamn, pew pew!'

    Sincerely,

    Drilltex


    edit: Thanks to SiliconShadow for posting the link below. Good read for AAs and melees who might hate AAs. Advice on how to play an AA and how to fit in with a group.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=235309
    Last edited by Chris79; 01-28-2011 at 06:57 AM. Reason: added information

    KHYBER: Drilltex WF Monk 20 (TRx2), Pyrric Human Wiz (20), Drilltor WF Wiz (20), Drillsworn WF FvS (18)

  2. #2
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    A 'Damn pew pew' is someone that gets aggro, then runs away from the group with those mobs, causing orange alert.

    A 'Daaaaaaamn, pew pew!' is someone that gets aggro, then runs straight to the melees.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  3. #3
    Community Member Fenrisulven6's Avatar
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    My clerics all use longbows, to good effect. Its also synergetic to the caster role (standing back to see the big pic, throw down some cc, see who needs burst heals).

    I don't find bows to be as useful on my melees. Its only a back-up weapon for things I can't reach with a great axe.

    But just to be clear, some basic guidelines I use on the bow:

    1) try to only shoot at those critters that are already aggro'd on someone else

    2) if you get aggro, run TOWARD the melee's and pass through them.

    3) ?

  4. #4
    Community Member Chris79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrisulven6 View Post
    My clerics all use longbows, to good effect. Its also synergetic to the caster role (standing back to see the big pic, throw down some cc, see who needs burst heals).

    I don't find bows to be as useful on my melees. Its only a back-up weapon for things I can't reach with a great axe.

    But just to be clear, some basic guidelines I use on the bow:

    1) try to only shoot at those critters that are already aggro'd on someone else

    2) if you get aggro, run TOWARD the melee's and pass through them.

    3) ?
    3) = Profit

    KHYBER: Drilltex WF Monk 20 (TRx2), Pyrric Human Wiz (20), Drilltor WF Wiz (20), Drillsworn WF FvS (18)

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    As you notice the melee furiously hacking the backside of the mobs you are kiting, try tumbling forwards towards the melee. If your timing is good you can stall the enemies and help provide a few free hits with flanking bonuses :P.

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    Community Member Geonis's Avatar
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    Dear Clueless Melees,

    When we "pew-pew"'s kite, you should remain still in a group, so we can drag the mobs through you. See, with the current mechanics, you are extremely unlikely to even cause an attack roll when chasing a mob.

    Thanks,

    "Pew-Pew"
    Hi, I play Generic Fantasy RPG Online, formerly known as DDO.

  7. #7
    Community Member TeyaBrosna's Avatar
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    I'm gonna practice properly kiting towards melees right now. My AA has primarily been soloing, but she won't do that her entire career. And you're so right - if I'm gonna be a ranged combatant for even a percentage of the time, I've got to learn to do this correctly.

    Off to the Sands!

  8. #8
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    You know melee's it can be hard to spot you guys behind all the damage numbers scrolling across the screen as my "pew pew" arcane archer is clearing most of the field in those 20 seconds. So send up a flare next time, or have the Bard Drop a disco ball so I know where to bring the hurting remnants of the mob hoards to your feet next time..

    The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

    A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.
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    Community Member Eistander's Avatar
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    Likewise with the above poster, I do have a main that is an AA and is not shy about it.. on the other hand, I have the fun melee toys too that I like to use. Thankfully I must be doing something right, 'cause the only question I get from time to time is "What bow is that?" instead of "What the **** are you doing?".. I do know to pull to melee, but I have been running into the opposite of the issue you describe; melee not forming a wall of sorts for me to pull into if I feel the urge to not drop the bow

    Just trying to do my part in cleaning up the name of the "pew pews" one quest at a time.

  10. #10
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    For me and my AA, it's Pew Pew to draw a Mob, then whip out the scimmies and "Slap Chop" em to death.
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  11. #11
    Community Member AMDarkwolf's Avatar
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    'bout the only time 'ranged is best' is when the mobs are perched, or too far to reach immediately.

    I also just LOVE how ranged players like to stat how 'staggering' their DPS is and claim how they 'got so many kills' When the fact is, you make it pretty hard for a melee to even land a shot.


    How about you wait till the melee moves in, trips/stuns/****es the mobs off THEN do your little pewpew trick.

    Have to admit, it must take skill to play a build that can do good dps 10 seconds out of ever minute :P

  12. #12
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!

    A good rule of thumb for archers is never target a mob(s) you don't expect to kill by yourself (boss's excluded). Melee's don't sweat about chasing those mobs like a bunch of Benny Hill goobs, pull out a dang ranged weapon and join the kills. There are clearly times when melee is best and other times when ranged is best. A good "pew-pew" knows those times and does not stick blindly to one style, just like a good "melee" should know it as well. My AA has many top notch melee combos as well, for when those options are superior and uses them whenever the situation calls for it.
    This is outstanding advice and well worth reading.

    I firmly subscribe to the you-kite-it, you-kill-it philosophy of DDO combat. If you want me to kill something that you've aggro'd, then bring it over to me and stand still for a second or two so that I can pull aggro off of you.

    I wish more pew pewers could handle themselves like Zenako and Geonis.

  13. #13
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    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default I take offense to this thread

    When my WF monk whips out those masterwork throwing axes and begins chucking them with startling(ly low) accuracy while running backwards without any care as to what may be behind me (more mobs, the boss, lava, my creepy Uncle Remus with the toupee, lazy eye and fondness for me sitting on his lap), as a melee it's your JOB to chase after them and make sure I don't die. The reason I do that is to make them all form a single file line while chasing me, which can only make it EASIER for you to catch and kill them! With 6 CON do you really want me in there hitting mobs alongside you? I am BUILD to both kite and dual-shield bash, not get bogged down in the trenches, fools!

    If the cleric has a blade barrier up, it makes MORE sense to draw the mob AWAY from that so as not to agro the cleric, since clerics are only built to heal and not to fight letting the mobs get hit by his carefully placed bb (or WoF for sorc/ wiz) only leads to further trouble.

    Dungeon Alert is DDO's way of saying the melees have failed. Kiting is the only cure for that illness, nay, that epidemic.
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    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    I am an AA, and I hardly ever kite. Agree completely with "do not aggro a mob I can't kill by myself" part. If I draw aggro and mob manages to reach me without dying, I put down the bow and pick up appropriate TWF set. In fact, one of my biggest headaches is figuring out before quest starts which TWF combinations are appropriate, and finding places for them in hotbars

    My standard tactic when party approaches a group of mobs is multishot with Cursespewing bow, and rapidly switch between targets. Within 10 seconds every mob is wearing a Curse hat. Then I pick up Paralyzer bow and again rapidly switch between targets. If one manages to get through the fighters and close in on me, concentrate on him. Once he is paralyzed, finish him off with some DPS bow or with TWF.

    And yes, I do get asked "What bow is that?" a lot. Usual answer is "several bows, and good hotbar skills!"
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    Community Member sweez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    The overall DPS of a well played "pew pew" can be staggering, due to improved precise shot and being able to line up multiple targets at once!
    The OP is annoyed by the kiting AAs. If your DPS were "staggering", you wouldn't be kiting, cuz stuff would be dead before you got the chance to kite it. So.
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    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Your "stereotypical" melee wont have to deal with anything a good archer shoots, as it will be dead long before the melee character has to take a swipe at it.

    Its the 42 dex 16 str archers who never put the bow down that you have to worry about, heh.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris79 View Post
    Please, those of you who know how to kite, please feel free to post, for the good of the community, for the sake of those melee who could no longer stand it. I don't pretend to know how to do it well, but I know bad kiting when I see it!
    Good kiting example: I was in an underpowered party in Depths of Discord. Straight-up fight with the earth elementals would have ended in party wipe. I led the elementals on a merry chase up and down that LONG corridor, which gave the rest of characters time to heal.

    Generally speaking, "good kiting" means "draw a very dangerous foe away from the group in order to give the group a break". The ranger doing that better know exactly WHERE he is running, and how not to get cornered. If he does not, it becomes "bad kiting".
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  19. #19
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweez View Post
    The OP is annoyed by the kiting AAs. If your DPS were "staggering", you wouldn't be kiting, cuz stuff would be dead before you got the chance to kite it. So.
    Most of the time, the mobs die on their way to reach me, (since with high graphics settings and a a 50+ spot skill I see the mobs, even the hiding ones, way before many other players do anyway, thus I am often killing them before some players even know they are there) so frankly I don't even have to move much at all, other than to maintain maximum line up to optimize IPS and Manyshot kills. At the higher level quests, this method does not work with teleporting mobs, as any AA or pew-pew quickly learns. Before that however, most mobs do just die...

    What often happens is that many melees have taken great pains to make sure they have optimized their gear for killing, while too many archer types seem to have just equipped a bow and start firing without the suitable gear or skills or feats or enhancements to make them as capable of doing that role as many melees are at doing their role. Those ill prepared archers tarnish the name of all, just like those no hit point back stabbing but dying all the time rogues tarnish the class of rogue and the no health no fort melees who drop like broken glass in quests make some question the choices those melee builds made.

    Well played, well equipped, well built characters of pretty much any style can and will be very effective.

    As another poster has long stated, the encounter dynamics of ranged attacks do not play well or smoothly with hand to hand melee often, and even more so when either side refuses to adjust to the circumstances of the encounter. I can sadly recall a few DQ raids where I was the only melee who had any ranged attacks for the perched gnolls, everyone else assumed everyone else would take care of it. It got messy, but it got done. Too many ill prepared toons, to handle what should have been a well known feature of that raid.
    Last edited by Zenako; 01-26-2011 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Spot skill comment added
    Sarlona - Stormreach Requisition Company (SRC):Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8; Hennako-Human Cleric20; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15;more

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    Community Member Geonis's Avatar
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    "Bad kiting" comes from e-peen measuring melees, who are so worried about their kill count, they must chase every monster.

    The correct way is to understand that if a "pew-pew" is kiting something, they will kill it (if they are any good) or bring it to you(if they are so-so) or die (if they suck).

    Once this is understood by all involved, or at least the melee, then the melee have a much more fun time.
    Hi, I play Generic Fantasy RPG Online, formerly known as DDO.

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