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  1. #1
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Default Horoth/Suulomades: A Strategy Guide

    Guildies are telling me that PUG groups for Tower of Despair are failing more than ever before on Khyber. Some fail because they haven't got a clue; but mostly it's because they use a basic strategy that doesn't really have any way to recover if things get ugly. They wipe, and then blame 'bad luck' for the tank dying during a Blasphemy, or being Disintegrated, and the raid wiping in chaos 35 seconds later.

    Here's a strategy that works on Normal, Hard and Elite, and that has built-in failsafes if bad things happen (like tanks rolling a 1 on Disintegrate). I've tested it on a couple of mostly-guild Elite+Suulo runs (including the first 0 mana potion Elite+Suulo I heard of on Khyber) as well as many a PUG Norm/Hard + Suulo run.

    This covers only the final fight. On Normal and Hard, part 1 is pretty easy, and part 2 has a very simply explained strategy that is easily learned (although it can be tricky to execute). Part 1 Elite is brutal, but if you are up to running this raid on Elite, you should be able to figure out how to beat it yourself. Part 2 Elite is the same as Normal, but longer and more unforgiving. The same strategy works, but it is harder to execute than Normal.

    Note: This was written before update 9. Minor changes might be needed.


    The Horoth-Suulomades Raid Primer



    The Basics:

    If you've run the raid more than two or three times, you probably know most of this part and can skim it or skip to the strategy heading below (60% of the way down the post).

    The foes, in a nutshell:

    Horoth - Horoth is a hybrid melee/caster that deals the highest melee DPS of any raid boss except Epic and Elite Lailat. He has 200k HP on Normal (scaling to 350k on Elite), hits in melee for ~100 damage per swing (attacking around 60 times per minute), his melee attacks sometimes proc a very long lasting damage over time effect, and he casts two deadly spells that significantly affect the encounter - Disintegrate (~500 damage, Fort DC 30/32/34, cast on the person with the highest threat) and Blasphemy (huge area of effect stun, no save, and chance to teleport you to the Marketplace, which removes you from the raid entirely with no way to return). Will Save DC on the banishment effect is 30/32/34.
    Horoth has negligable AC (IIRC it's 48 on Elite), but significant DR/Good AND Silver (15/25/35) and 50% Fortification. Bring appropriate weaponry.
    An AC of 80/85/90 is an extremely potent defense against the Fiend's melee attacks, and an AC 5 points lower is very useful. Blur and Displacement have no effect against Horoth's attacks; however they are recommended as being attacked by Horoth and Orthons at once is even worse when the Orthons aren't missing much.
    Horoth heals ~20% of his health whenever a player dies in the encounter. This is a bad thing. Stay alive. He cannot heal any other way.
    In addition, Horoth moves very quickly. This makes him difficult to kite.

    Suulomades - Same monster as in A Vision of Destruction, except he has +4 to nearly everything from the Shavarath Environmental Effects. Suulomades will spawn in the same place Horoth spawned when Horoth falls to 75% health. Hits for ~50/65/70 on average. On a critical hit (including one that deals only standard damage due to fortification), Suulomades places a curse that prevents the victim from recieving any divine healing. As such, it is recommended (but not required) to use a Warforged threat tank on Suulomades. An AC of 77/81/85 is an extremely potent defense against him, and as his spells are pathetic, a tank with these levels of AC will take next to no damage.
    Players may elect not to kill Suulomades. If they do this, they miss out on a chest that has a significant chance to drop large Shroud ingredients and a very slim chance to drop +4 tomes. This chest can also drop minimum level 20 weapons, most of which are utter garbage, but they theoretically could include a +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Evil Outsider Bane, race required: your character's race. I recommend that most ToD runs be run at the hardest difficulty that you are confident you can defeat Suulomades on.
    He has similar HP to Horoth (and less HP than Horoth on Normal difficulty).
    It should be pretty obvious that having Suulomades putting Healing Curses on a person that's taking the savage beating only Horoth knows how to give is a Bad Thing. If both bosses are attacking one person, you probably have less than 20 seconds until everyone is dead.

    Orthon trash - These spawn on a fixed timer (2 appear every 30 seconds, although they are a tad slower to spawn in the first 2 minutes). They are immune to instant-kill effects (except on Normal and maybe Hard difficulty they are not immune to 30 HD Trap the Soul, on all difficulties they are susceptable to Greensteel/Epic Souleater procs of that same spell but will usually save) and have very high saves and (on Normal) around 4000hp. Individually they do not do much damage (they hit hard but very slowly), but in numbers they become a threat. They are at their most dangerous when they are attacking the same player Horoth is attacking.


    Dealing with Disintegrate:
    Disintegrate doesn't often hit for full damage, but when it does, it is extremely dangerous. Anyone that has Horoth's aggro needs to be able to survive the ~500 damage even after taking a couple of melee hits. As such, it is almost mandatory to ensure that players with under 600hp never have Horoth's aggro.
    For this reason, this strategy recommends the use of a 'threat tank' - someone specced for survival that holds Horoth's aggro and is primarily kept alive by single-target heals. (Players familiar with A Vision of Destruction will have seen this strategy used there; it's also very common in other MMOs).
    Only the most geared and experienced players should even consider a tank-less strategy, and even then, only when attempting to set a speed record - such strategies will not be detailed in this guide.
    At nearly any time, the tank can just randomly die due to a Disintegrate landing at an unlucky time - as such, this strategy uses a backup tank as well.

    Dealing with Blasphemy:
    Blasphemy's Banishment effect has a huge area of effect. As such, wearing Boots of Anchoring is (almost) mandatory for this raid, and absolutely mandatory for the Horoth tank and any backup tank. These make you immune to Banishment, Haste and Displacement (however, this effect does not remove Haste or Displacement if you are already affected by one). Players that are not meleeing either boss may elect to use a Mantle of the Worldshaper or upgraded spell absorption Ioun Stone in place of the Boots of Anchoring - doing so is risky and not recommended.
    Spell Resistance can stop Blasphemy, but players cannot attain SR high enough to rely upon (even on Normal, Horoth almost never fails to bypass a Cleric-cast Mass Spell Resistance buff).
    Blasphemy has a 60 second cooldown. If you are hit with Blasphemy, it is completely safe to remove your Boots of Anchoring to recieve a fresh Haste and Displacement, and/or to trigger Madstone Rage. Remember to re-equip your Boots once you are rebuffed. Being banished is a bad thing.
    Do not rely upon a high Will save to get through Banishment. You can, and will, roll a 1 eventually. (Yes, I've had this happen to me in the first three seconds of the Horoth encounter).
    Blasphemy is deadly due to the massive area of effect stun, and the likely scenario of healers being stunned. This can be mitigated by having a light monk in your party, but one of those is not always available. The strategy presented does not assume a light monk is available. If one is, they should keep Grasp the Earth Dragon active on the main healer at all times, and you can be a bit more reckless at times.


    What to expect: Tanking Horoth
    Expect to suffer 70/85/100 (n/h/e) damage per second from Horoth's melee attacks, and enormous spikes of damage from Meteor Swarms, Disintegrate and Delayed Blast Fireball. Expect to suffer 30 damage per second from Horoth's damage-over-time effects (players usually call these 'badges'). Expect your healer(s) to go through brief phases where they cannot heal (due to Blasphemy stuns) and be ready to call out in voice chat for help if this happens.
    Whenever you are under about 530hp, you are at risk of being one-shot by a Disintegrate if you fail a save. Whenever you are under about 300hp, you are at serious risk of being two-shot by a combination of one melee attack and one of Horoth's nastier spells (Meteor Swarm and Delayed Blast Fireball). If you have any emergency healing options (such as Lay on Hands), use them if you fall below the 300hp threshold.
    If Horoth 'switches aggro' and starts attacking someone else, do everything you can to get aggro back, fast. Only attempt to use Intimidate if your skill is in the 60s or higher. Using Intimidate for long-term aggro control of Horoth is not recommended.

    What to expect: Healing a Horoth tank
    Unlike any other boss (except Epic and Elite Lailat), you will not be able to heal a Horoth tank with only scrolls; Horoth deals far too much damage. I recommend throwing a Heal scroll every cooldown (this means coming equipped with 100+ Heal scrolls), and use a Heal spell on the tank whenever they fall under 60% HP. If the tank falls under 50% and Heal is on cooldown, you are in serious trouble. You should use all available spells (Max-Empped Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Cure Critical Wounds, etc) to get them over 60% ASAP, then wait for Heal to become available. This will involve spending a lot of mana.
    Use any SP regen clickies (such as Mysterious Bauble) early, but only when the tank is at 100%.
    If your SP falls under 20%, drink a mana potion immediately. Decide in advance how many potions you are willing to spend to keep the group up if things go wrong. While most runs use few if any potions, my personal limit is 5 on a Normal run, and 20 on an Elite run. Be open with the group about your limits.
    As a general rule of thumb, don't raise anyone unless the raid leader tells you to, as multiple deaths are a bad thing. Try to use only True Resurrection and/or Resurrection. Very experienced healers can ignore this recommendation.
    Horoth's Blasphemy - Stun has the same range as your Heal spell. If you can heal the tank, you can be stunned. The cleric or favored soul with the Enlarge Spell feat is a very rare breed, but if you happen to have this feat, you have access to a genuine 'easy button' for this raid.
    High tiers of Scroll Mastery are valuable in this fight (however, they are not required).
    Finally, Radiant Servant auras. These can be very useful if you can survive the splash damage from Horoth's spells. I recommend that you only stand close enough to use this on the main tank if you have 450+ hp.

    What to expect: Meleeing Horoth when not the tank
    Horoth attacks about a 270 degree arc with his bite and claws. As such, if you stand behind him (experienced melees will happily show you where), he won't hit you in melee but you can attack him.
    You will still be hurt by Horoth's AoE spells. Meteor Swarm deals ~100 bludgeoning damage (no save) and four packets of ~75 fire damage (each one gets a Reflex save, DC 30/32/34, for half damage). Delayed Blast Fireball deals ~250 fire damage (Reflex 30/32/34 for half). As such, fire resistance is mandatory; items pushing fire resistance over 30 are even better.
    If you (or another melee) deals too much damage, Horoth will turn around and start attacking a new target. This is a bad thing. If this happens (regardless of whether he is attacking you or attacking another player), IMMEDIATELY stop attacking and 'turtle up' by holding Shift to actively block, and if you have a shield, equip it. Let the tank recover aggro. If this happens frequently, you might want to consider changing tanks, or alternately having those melees that are taking aggro reduce their damage output. (Most groups will have the person that is consistently taking aggro take over as tank, but it's your group leader's call. Under no circumstances do you want a 400hp rogue, ranger or monk filling in as tank, even if they do enormous damage)

    What to expect: Playing as an arcane caster
    You won't be able to do appreciable damage to the two bosses in this encounter (unless you are willing to guzzle mana potions). Your primary roles in this fight are to control Orthons, to stay alive, to provide concealment bonuses, and to use Reconstruct to heal Warforged party members (in most groups, the Suulomades tank will be a Warforged). Web and Flesh to Stone are the most common ways of neutralising the Orthons, possibly with Energy Drain added to soften them up first. Many other approaches work too. If you do successfully Flesh to Stone an Orthon, I advise you to hit it 5-10 times with a Life Stealing weapon such as Dreamspitter, if you have one.
    If you are a Sorceror, please swap out a spell to take Reconstruct before joining a Tower group. Scrolls alone have too long a cooldown. Yes, this includes YOU, fleshy sorcs. Your job might be to play a healbot role - or alternately, you might need to throw a Reconstruct on someone while chasing down Orthons.
    At all times, ensure that there is a Cloudkill or Acid Fog active and covering Horoth and the Horoth tank. This isn't for damage (although it might do a little) - it's to cause Horoth to suffer a 20% miss chance with his melee attacks. It's recommended, but less important, that you do the same on Suulomades. Scrolls are acceptable here, however they can be difficult to come by at times.




    The strategy:

    The fight is divided into three phases:
    Phase 1: Horoth only
    Phase 2: Horoth and Suulomades
    Phase 3: Post-Suulo - Horoth (and possibly a lot of Orthons)

    A lot of damage needs to be done to Horoth and Suulomades to win, however, the keys to the fight are surviving, and keeping Horoth under control.

    Group composition:
    Apologies for my strange abbreviations here.
    1 Horoth Main Tank (T): A melee that can hold aggro reasonably well, and can survive a Disintegrate and two melee attacks. I personally recommend a Barbarian, Fighter or Knight of the Chalice Paladin with high healing amplification, although many other classes can do the job. If a Clr20 is available, their Divine Intervention should be used on this player near the end of Phase 1.
    1 Horoth Offtank (OT): A backup to the main tank. Ideally this is someone that could also fill the maintank role; however, any moderately sturdy (600+ HP) melee will do, and in a pinch, any melee can fill this role. This role is not used frequently in PUG Towers on Khyber, and most failed runs could have been prevented by making using of one. If two Clr20s are available, the second one should use their DI on this player near the end of Phase 1. Evasion is a big plus for this role, but is certainly not needed.
    Horoth Main Healing Team (MH): These are the people responsible for keeping the Horoth main tank alive (they should also heal other party members when possible, but the tank comes first). Inexperienced groups are advised to take two divine casters (Clr/FvS) and one bard; experienced groups will often have less people here. If the main tank is a warforged, you can replace divine casters with arcane casters here; if your bard is specced for melee rather than healing (as both of mine are), then don't count them in this group. If in doubt, take more healers. The raid will take longer, but will be more likely to succeed.
    1 Suulo Tank (ST): This person (preferably a Warforged or a high AC build) just needs to be able to hold Suulomades' aggro. Any melee can do this, but runs are smoother when they are a high HP build with Warforged Brute Fighting enhancements. If in doubt, give this job to the highest DPS melee in the raid, as they have to hold aggro on the boss that everyone is trying to kill quickly.
    Main DPS team: This will be the bulk of the raid (often five players). These are melees with no special jobs - they are there to work through the 350-700k HP of boss hitpoints as quickly as possible while taking as little damage as they can. I highly recommend that one of these people (at least) can use Heal scrolls. In many groups, your bard will be in this group. The less people you have here, the longer the fight will take, increasing the chance that the Horoth tank will roll a 1 on Disintegrate, or that an absolutely urgent Heal will be interrupted by a Blasphemy. In addition, the longer the fight goes, the more Orthons will spawn.
    'Other' team (OH): This includes arcane casters and the person/people responsible for healing the DPS team and Suulo Tank in phase 2. Often just one arcane caster, one arcane plus one bard, or one arcane plus one divine.


    Here is a rough map of Horoth's throne room, listing the positions where I recommend you fight. (This is the Phase 2 positioning; read below for where to stand in the easier parts). http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l22/sirgog/Horoth.jpg The pink circle is an approximate boundary to the Banishment effect (it's actually larger than drawn). This map is not to scale.

    Buffs:
    Everyone should have 30 (or better) Resist Fire, Electricity and Sonic; Deathward; and all the other buffs you want (Rage, Stalwart Pact, etc). Freedom of Movement is not needed on any difficulty. Anyone that might get Suulomades' aggro should have Greater Heroism.
    Inspire Recklessness is safe, as all of the foes in the encounter critically hit for only double damage. Even on Elite, Horoth's melee crits do less damage than his Meteor Swarms. However, I advise that the main Horoth tank does not have Recklessness unless they are a Warforged.

    Phase 1:
    The main tank should engage Horoth (there is a long dialogue first; ensure you cast extended Haste on the raid and Displacement on T, OT and ST near the end of it and cast Invisibility on anyone that will be only healing), and drag him to the position marked with a H in a circle on the map (between two thrones; this reduces Horoth's ability to shuffle around the tank, which makes it easier to attack him from the 'safe spot' of behind him).
    Portals will spawn. Ignore them, they aren't worth attacking.
    MH and OH should keep T healed while dealing with Orthons, aiming to use as little SP as possible (Phase 2 is very long and SP intensive; all healers should aim to have 90% SP left when it begins).
    Melees should watch Horoth's health bar. When the tank has done enough damage to make Horoth lose four pixels of health (~4000 damage on Normal, ~7000 on Elite), they should all position themselves at the position marked OT on the map and attack Horoth from behind.
    Orthons should be neutralised or killed ASAP. Flesh to Stone is a death sentence to them if you can land it.
    If a light monk is available, keep MH immune to stuns at all times. If not, position one person capable of using a Heal scroll (or spell) at the position marked OH - in the event of a stun, that person *immediately* throws a full Heal on one of the MH team (which will clear the stun), then runs in and throws any other healing they have on the tank.
    Slow but steady damage here is the key - only speed this phase up if you can do so while keeping control of Horoth. In particular, DPS'ers should conserve limited resources such as Smites and Haste Boosts for later phases (although the tank should use them here). At 75%, Horoth will summon Suulomades, and Phase 2 begins with Horoth talking in general chat.

    Phase 2:
    Horoth summons a bunch of Orthons and Suulomades pretty much all at once - a Blasphemy at this time is quite nasty.
    The ST should disengage from Horoth and run to get Suulo's aggro and position him where the S is on the map (this position is comfortably out of Blasphemy stun range). The main DPS team should immediately kill all active orthons, then once that is done, they should run over to Suulomades and attack him from behind. They should take almost no damage from Suulomades unless an aggro switch occurs, in which case they should actively block and (if needed) drink Remove Curse potions while ST gets aggro back and the raid leader decides whether or not to change the Suulo tank.
    T and OT continue to attack Horoth. If at any time T dies (or survives only due to a Divine Intervention), OT takes over the job of tanking Horoth until T is raised, rebuffed and back to 100% health. Healers beware - OT may be far harder to heal than T was.
    If a tank death occurs early in this phase, one of the DPS team, or ST might have more threat than OT - if this happens, Horoth will run across the room to them. Losing control of Horoth is a bad thing, and the leading cause of ToD party wipes. To avoid this, ST and the DPS team can take it easy on their damage output in phase 1, especially if they know they outgear the rest of the group.
    As in Phase 1, the MH team is at risk of being stunned by Blasphemy. If it happens, call it out over voice - and someone in OH or the DPS team should be ready to throw a Heal scroll on a member of the MH team when a stun occurs, allowing them to get back to healing.
    This phase is a race - can you kill Suulomades before the healing team runs out of mana? As such, more damage output here is a great asset. However, it is more important to stay alive and prevent player deaths than it is to deal damage in this phase. If you have the choice between hitting Suulo for three seconds and dealing ~1000 damage, or pulling out a Heal scroll and using it on a player that's at 40% hp, do the latter. Any player death will massively heal Horoth, significantly elongating Phase 3.
    If Orthons get too numerous for OH to deal with them, or if they start to attack T, they should ask for help. When this happens, one or more of the DPS team should focus on Orthons for as long as is needed. Ignoring Orthons until seven of them gank your main tank is another major cause of wipes.
    When Suulo falls to ~30%, this is the ideal time to chain-smite, use Haste boosts, and so on.
    Once Suulo is slain, clean up the surviving Orthons and it's Phase 3.

    Alternate Phase 2 approach for the main tank:
    In most groups, the main tank will continue attacking Horoth (as will the OT). In some groups, players will elect to have the main tank 'turtle up' rather than keep attacking (turtling up means equipping a shield with very high DR and blocking) while the OT focuses on killing Orthons from a position far from Suulomades (if the tank dies, they run to Horoth ASAP). This approach results in longer runs, but will make healing Horoth's melee damage easier. I only recommend this approach if your run is going poorly, and your healers have an abundance of Heal scrolls but are not carrying many mana pots. Horoth still hits like a truck even when turtling, but the required healing per second is significantly lower.

    Phase 3:
    This is just like Phase 1, except victory is closer to hand.
    All melees except T should kill any remaining Orthons (there's probably a few of them). Then, return to the Phase 1 strategy.
    Every 1-2 minutes (if the fight goes that long), melees should break off to kill Orthons again.
    Don't get complacent, don't ignore Orthons, and victory is yours. In the event of a tank death here, OT should still have aggro. Everyone should block while OT moves to where T was, and OT becomes the tank for the rest of the fight. T should be raised, rebuffed and should play a DPS role until the end of the fight.


    Known Bugs:
    Two important bugs to mention about this encounter.
    Firstly, summoned monsters cause Horoth to do Bad Things (such as casting Blasphemy on the entire raid before the fight even begins). Never, EVER summon anything after Nytharios is slain. If for whatever reason you summoned something in part 2 and Nytharios did not kill it, please wait out the five minute duration of the summon spell.
    Secondly, IF you are an Angel of Vengeance Favored Soul, DO NOT, ever, EVER cross the line on the floor (it's pretty clear, the one connecting the two pillars) during the pre-fight event.. Doing so will also cause Horoth to aggro early.
    Last edited by sirgog; 07-09-2011 at 08:55 AM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Solid guide. 5 stars.

    May wanna add a section about radiant aura.
    Seems to be quite effective - but only IF the cleric using it tough enough to survive Horoths AOE attacks, which a lot of clerics aren't. (Last night i asked my cleric to try it and he got killed by a meteor swarm... So was a bad idea)

    Orthons: Yea 2 every 30 seconds. 2 per portal, for a maximum of 6.

    They are actually a little bit tiered at first tho. They come out of the portals - and the portals spawn in a bit slower then 30 seconds. So the first few minutes its fairly easy, then it starts to get harder as all the portals are fully active.

    You can also kill the portals and slow the spawn.. But there's no point, the portals have tons of HP and constantly respawn, just at a slower rate.

    Flesh to stone works nice as even tho they suicide and respawn, they seem to take a bit of a random amount of time before they decide it's time to bite on there cyanide tablet. Usually 1-2 minutes. Might wanna mention to other players to not kill the stoned ones (tho if your casters DC is low enough that chances are they will break fast, killing them might be better, depends on the caster)

  3. #3
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    On GH, I typically give it to Sully tank/kiter and to healers because of the immunity to fear aspect of it. Sully will fear people even though Horoth doesn't; and the environmental aura doesn't protect against that.
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    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Really nice guide Just a quick question: is suulomades' chest dropping larges and +4 tome on normal too or there's only garbage on normal?
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  5. #5
    Community Member moops's Avatar
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    Good guide--As for the Off tank, often times it is not whom one chooses. . .we tend to figure out who will have the aggro, say--if your main tank forgets to put his boots back on and Horoth comes running over to sulu. . .that person immediately steps away from the whole group as soon as tank says "Oh #$^*#$*^". And then the person we want to be off tank goes as well.

    But this is for sure where Ive seen most pug TODs fail, and most of the time it's because the leader does not lead, and no one knows what to do when the littlest thing goes wrong.

    Also, I just have 2 people kill orthons, and then one person kite them after sulu dies. Usually the 2 people I have killing Orhtons take zero damage or can heal themselves--Ive been in pugs where people somehow die fighting the orthons--it saves healers SP, and keeps melee focused on the bosses for faster kill.

    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    Really nice guide Just a quick question: is suulomades' chest dropping larges and +4 tome on normal too or there's only garbage on normal?
    Yes, just saw a +4 drop on normal.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    Really nice guide Just a quick question: is suulomades' chest dropping larges and +4 tome on normal too or there's only garbage on normal?
    Yea it does. +4 tomes on all difficulties in both chests.

    Exact Droprate from Rodrak:
    a) +4 Tome (any), Tower of Despair, Horoth chest (n/h/e)
    18%(raid loot)*50%(2nd of the 2 ring tables)*3%(+4 tome)=0.27% for a random +4 tome on normal
    22%*50%*3%=0.33% on hard
    26%*50%*3%=0.39% on elite
    Quote:
    b) +4 Tome (any), ToD, Suulo chest (n/h/e)
    6%(loot table with tomes)*2%(+4 tome)=0.12% for a random +4 tome on normal
    12%*2%=0.24% on hard
    18%*2%=0.36% on elite

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    Community Member Undone1's Avatar
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    It should be noted for groups attempting it with difficulties that a light monk can be used to keep the healing team unstunned, but even better is for the healing team to have an unsupressed pale lavender or a mantle of the worldshaper. This significantly reduces the impact of a stun ( Who cares if the tank is stunned if the healers arent horoth stays contained.

    Also instead of OT you can just have the next highest DPS toon tank 90% of the time its a fighter or barb with 600 hps anyway so it doesn't matter. This allows for another 200-400 dps on sulu which reduces the time hes up by a good amount. It depends on the group though I have been in 4 situations where the main tank died to disint and we all knew exactly who was next in aggro order from parts 1/2 and acted accordingly. In any event two thumbs up great guide.
    Last edited by Undone1; 01-25-2011 at 12:31 PM.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Trillea's Avatar
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    Great guide, +1.

    edit: I found what I suggested in there, just not where I thought it would be
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  9. #9
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moops View Post
    Yes, just saw a +4 drop on normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Yea it does. +4 tomes on all difficulties in both chests.

    Exact Droprate from Rodrak:
    Ty guys
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  10. #10
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    Nice guide
    I'd also suggest to add that a Mantle or some other form of spell absorption is very useful for healers, to avoid the nasty stun. My cleric actually hasn't boots and completed 20 runs without ever dropping her Mantle to 0 (most runs were without killing Suulo though), and never being stunned (I also equip a scarab of absorption as backup, but it's still full).

  11. #11
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Like it, didn't see anything I disagreed with in that guide. Well put together, for anyone who bothers to actually read it. Sadly, it looks like those of us reading already knew what was going to be in it. >.>

    I will add that another way of taking care of the Orthons as an Arcane spellcaster is Trap the Soul, 30 HD Version. I know it works on Normal, does not work on Elite (HD Cap), and cannot recall if it works on Hard or not. But in parties where there are no WF for me to heal on my Sorcerer, and keeping Haste/Rage/Cloudkill up is child's play, my choices are toss heal scrolls occasionally, or go Orthon hunting. It normally saves the party some time if Orthons are dead within the first 4 seconds of spawning.

    Another note - Invisibility rocks in here. Horoth may have some form of true seeing, but the Orthons do not. If your healers are invisible, they will almost always aggro to someone else.

  12. #12
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    When playing my cleric I was given invisibility and then trigered my aura (might have been burst) and lost invisibility. Is that usual?

  13. #13
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Book_O_Dragons View Post
    When playing my cleric I was given invisibility and then trigered my aura (might have been burst) and lost invisibility. Is that usual?
    Yes. Triggering either seems to remove invis. I'm assuming its because the positive energy could *theoretically* damage undead.

    If you're a cleric, and the aura isn't actually benefiting anyone but yourself, don't use it. You need an aura because you take damage. You take damage because Orthons hit you. Orthons hit you because you're visible.

    Stay invisible = stay unhurt.

    Now if you're actively using the aura to keep up some peeps? Then yeah, no biggie.

  14. #14
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Book_O_Dragons View Post
    When playing my cleric I was given invisibility and then trigered my aura (might have been burst) and lost invisibility. Is that usual?
    Yes certain spells take you out of invis. I dont have a rad servant high enough atm to test this paticular one, but its not the only thing that does. Amrath drops a necklace with 3 charges at 15 min ea. Nice to have on most alts.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Yes. Triggering either seems to remove invis. I'm assuming its because the positive energy could *theoretically* damage undead.

    If you're a cleric, and the aura isn't actually benefiting anyone but yourself, don't use it. You need an aura because you take damage. You take damage because Orthons hit you. Orthons hit you because you're visible.

    Stay invisible = stay unhurt.

    Now if you're actively using the aura to keep up some peeps? Then yeah, no biggie.
    thanks ill remember that for into the deep epic too

    +1

  16. #16

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    Good guide. While I don't necessarily agree with your emphasis of wf tanks on suulu, I tank this lots on fleshies it's not hard to just pop a guild pot when you get cursed. WF work fine but I don''t necessarily rank them above a fleshie here.

    One thing is Greter heroism is good to have on your suulu tank as you can get feared by him without it. The environmental effects don't stop fear.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Good guide. While I don't necessarily agree with your emphasis of wf tanks on suulu, I tank this lots on fleshies it's not hard to just pop a guild pot when you get cursed. WF work fine but I don''t necessarily rank them above a fleshie here.

    One thing is Greter heroism is good to have on your suulu tank as you can get feared by him without it. The environmental effects don't stop fear.
    The typical group composition for the elite Towers that I run with for a Suulomades kill make reconstructing a WF tank unfeasible. Generally, we bring 3 healers and 1 caster and the caster has their hands full kiting or disabling the orthons while healing themselves so reconstructing a WF is out. Generally, melee only kill the first 2 waves of orthons to insure that the main tank has a really solid hold on Horoth and then kiting or disabling orthons becomes the caster's responsibility. Doing it this way minimizes the time that it takes to complete the raid and will cut down on the potential for resource usage. The most important thing for the maintank on Horoth to have is high hitpoints, good healing amp, and guild remove curse pots in the event that the healer is not comfortable covering the tanks curses. Overall, this is a pretty good intro guide for newbies and deserves a +1. Someone above posted about the merits of the Mantle of the Worldshaper for healers and that should definitely be included somewhere.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xithos View Post
    The typical group composition for the elite Towers that I run with for a Suulomades kill make reconstructing a WF tank unfeasible. Generally, we bring 3 healers and 1 caster and the caster has their hands full kiting or disabling the orthons while healing themselves so reconstructing a WF is out. Generally, melee only kill the first 2 waves of orthons to insure that the main tank has a really solid hold on Horoth and then kiting or disabling orthons becomes the caster's responsibility. Doing it this way minimizes the time that it takes to complete the raid and will cut down on the potential for resource usage. The most important thing for the maintank on Horoth to have is high hitpoints, good healing amp, and guild remove curse pots in the event that the healer is not comfortable covering the tanks curses. Overall, this is a pretty good intro guide for newbies and deserves a +1. Someone above posted about the merits of the Mantle of the Worldshaper for healers and that should definitely be included somewhere.
    Same here plus many of our wf melee's have swapped over to wf so theres not as many available to tank. A good ac threat tank works really well on suulu as it cuts down significantly on his damage and allows a bard to heal him while meleeing. Our caster is never given a sole healing duty on a wf even if we have one because they have to handle orthons ck both bosses, hastes, etc. They will often help with either heal or recon on either tank when needed but never full time unless we brought two casters which we do sometimes.

    I do agree it's a strong guide I just found some fault with the emphasis put on wf tanking. They still get it done that way so it's not an issue just a difference in preferences.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Good guide. While I don't necessarily agree with your emphasis of wf tanks on suulu, I tank this lots on fleshies it's not hard to just pop a guild pot when you get cursed. WF work fine but I don''t necessarily rank them above a fleshie here.

    One thing is Greter heroism is good to have on your suulu tank as you can get feared by him without it. The environmental effects don't stop fear.
    GH is a good point, forgot that. Fleshies can certainly tank Suulo (and an AC fleshie is better than a no-AC WF if they meet the thresholds in the first post), but drinking guild potions does take one second. That can be a bad thing if you have Suulomades and four Orthons on you at once; hence my preference for repairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Same here plus many of our wf melee's have swapped over to wf so theres not as many available to tank. A good ac threat tank works really well on suulu as it cuts down significantly on his damage and allows a bard to heal him while meleeing. Our caster is never given a sole healing duty on a wf even if we have one because they have to handle orthons ck both bosses, hastes, etc. They will often help with either heal or recon on either tank when needed but never full time unless we brought two casters which we do sometimes.

    I do agree it's a strong guide I just found some fault with the emphasis put on wf tanking. They still get it done that way so it's not an issue just a difference in preferences.
    I often take two casters (not so much by choice but so that casters can get completions, even on Elite this isn't so tough that you need the 'perfect' group for it).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post

    I often take two casters (not so much by choice but so that casters can get completions, even on Elite this isn't so tough that you need the 'perfect' group for it).
    Absolutely generally we take who wants to go and on what character.
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