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  1. #101
    Community Member bendover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    You're wrong. And being a **** about it.

    I could b e wrong on his actual percentage. Based on how the warforged healers friend stacks up with their normal 50% amp. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong about how healing amplification multiplies and does not add. Consider the poster claimed he was easily at 10% because his numbers added up together I'm not inaccurate.

    I'm assuming his logic was 50% + 15% (healers friend) + 10 (finger necklace) + 10 (docent) + 20 (ring) = 105%

    The above is not currect. If healers friend is added then it could look potentially like this:
    .65 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 94%

    There isn't a definitive answer on if it does and according to the wiki it's muliplied in a certain manner.


  2. #102
    Community Member bendover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanbeki View Post
    what is it you're looking to know? items were listed, heals were tossed by soul binder. I might have still had airship buff.

    The 10% would explain the difference.

    110 x .65 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 114 point heal

    Which puts you at a normal of 94% healing amp and would explain your heal.

  3. #103
    Community Member weewoo0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendover View Post
    Then you're leaving out valuable information.

    (110 x (1 + 2 x .10 (HF1)) /2) = 66 point heal

    (110 x (1 + 2 x .10) /2) x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 95.83 point heal

    (110 x (1 x 2 x .10) /2) x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 x 1.3 = 124.58 point heal

    Whoops should be .15 instead of .10. Could be a point off.
    some sources are multiplicative some additive. for example finger necklace/docent of blood is additive if after multiplicative if before.
    healers friend is additive to base.

    so
    (.5 (base) +.25(hf 1) +.1 (finger necklace) +.1 (docent of blood) ) * 1.2 from heal amp = 1.14 *1.3 = 1.482
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  4. #104
    Community Member bendover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weewoo0 View Post
    some sources are multiplicative some additive. for example finger necklace/docent of blood is additive if after multiplicative if before.
    healers friend is additive to base.

    so
    (.5 (base) +.25(hf 1) +.1 (finger necklace) +.1 (docent of blood) ) * 1.2 from heal amp = 1.14 *1.3 = 1.482

    It could all be. Problem is there is no definitive answer but it seems like only the healers friend adds to your base amp and then everything else is multiplied which would explain his heals. Which also shows not only were we all wrong to a degree on how it was determined but the wiki is also inaccurate in regards to healers friend.

  5. #105
    Community Member Jiipster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendover View Post
    It could all be. Problem is there is no definitive answer but it seems like only the healers friend adds to your base amp and then everything else is multiplied which would explain his heals. Which also shows not only were we all wrong to a degree on how it was determined but the wiki is also inaccurate in regards to healers friend.
    The thing to note here is that neither the Finger Necklace nor the Docent of Blood give Healing Amplification, they give the Fleshmaker and Blood-effects. As such, they don't follow the normal rules for stacking.

  6. #106
    Community Member bendover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiipster View Post
    The thing to note here is that neither the Finger Necklace nor the Docent of Blood give Healing Amplification, they give the Fleshmaker and Blood-effects. As such, they don't follow the normal rules for stacking.
    I understand that it's worded different but using the forumla I used with what he had on and using the healers friend as the only additive explained his heals on the dot.

  7. #107
    Community Member Sweyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bendover View Post
    Uhh no it doesn't. Healing amp multiplies NOT adds. You don't just add up precentages and get your new amp.

    .50 x 1.1 (HF 1) x 1.2 (ring) 1.1 (finger necklace) x 1.1 (docent) = 79% amp. Not even close to 100 sorry.
    You don't know how healing amp/finger necklace works. Some healing items add to your BASE healing, while others use the base healing to determine what they give. Finger necklace, Docent of blood, and HF add to your base.

    50 Starting
    15 HF
    10 Finger necklace
    10 Docent of Blood
    -------
    85 Base healing

    That .85 is then multiplied by the 20% from the ring. So the ring gives 17% healing for a total of 102%. If you did not put the necklace and docent on before the ring, then the healing gained from the ring would be 20% less, making it a gain of 13%, for a total of 98% healing.
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  8. #108
    Community Member Wraith_Sarevok's Avatar
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    On that note, is the effect of the passive Past Life: Paladin feat additive or multiplicative to total healing amplification?

    I haven't been able to find a concrete answer, but one post sort of implied that it was additive to the base score. Has anyone tested this out?

  9. #109
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    You don't know how healing amp/finger necklace works. Some healing items add to your BASE healing, while others use the base healing to determine what they give. Finger necklace, Docent of blood, and HF add to your base.

    50 Starting
    15 HF
    10 Finger necklace
    10 Docent of Blood
    -------
    85 Base healing

    That .85 is then multiplied by the 20% from the ring. So the ring gives 17% healing for a total of 102%. If you did not put the necklace and docent on before the ring, then the healing gained from the ring would be 20% less, making it a gain of 13%, for a total of 98% healing.
    My understanding had been that the Finger Necklace added to base healing and applied some multiplicative bonus as well, where only one of these is applied if equipped first. May be wrong on that, but that was my impression.
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  10. #110
    Community Member Swedishchef's Avatar
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    FYI WF do get enhancement to will based enchantments.

    WF construct thinking

    I lmao reading the buffing bit, it´s like a fairytale
    You don´t get more out of life then you put in to it.

  11. #111
    Community Member maha0201's Avatar
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    You spammers with the healing amp discussion should take that to new thread...
    Im still waiting on them epic gearing for wf ^^
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  12. #112
    Community Member kanbeki's Avatar
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    I really only got into it about the healing amp because WF is still a very good choice as a tank. When our "mighty" half orc barb died twice trying to tank horoth, I went with old faithful and put a WF barb on horoth instead, arcanes chipped in on heals and the healers ended up not having to use any resources despite horoths health going back to nearly full.

    And once again my barb is at or over 100% healing amp because in DDO reduced heals show in a different color, you can check this in the UI settings yourself.
    \
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  13. #113
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    My understanding had been that the Finger Necklace added to base healing and applied some multiplicative bonus as well, where only one of these is applied if equipped first. May be wrong on that, but that was my impression.
    Yea, that's about how it works.

    Lets say you have human healing amp 3, leviks bracers and finger necklace.

    If you equip finger necklace last you will get (1.3 * 1.2 + 0.1) * 100 = 166%.
    If you equip finger necklace before leviks bracers you will get (1.3 * 1.2 + 0.1*1.2) * 100 = 168%.

    As items are unequiped and reequiped when logging in you can't reliably get the multiplicative bonus from finger necklace to work with enhancements, unless you never log out.

    I am 99% sure that it works this way.
    Last edited by Aaxeyu; 01-17-2011 at 08:50 AM.

  14. #114
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    Was this thread to remnd people why not to put a barb in a PUG?
    Wherever you went - here you are.

  15. #115
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Teach me to read math stuffs at a bit past 8 AM on zero sleep.
    Last edited by sephiroth1084; 01-17-2011 at 08:53 AM.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  16. #116
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Uh...multiplying by 0.1 represents a reduction, not an increase, in amp, and my numbers aren't matching yours. 1.3*1.2*0.1 = 0.156*100=15.6 Regardless of how you are applying numbers, I fail to see how you are getting 166.

    Your second calc comes out to 0.1872. I am puzzled.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_and_minus_signs

  17. #117
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Edited previous post for brainfart.

    SO, the finger necklace applies a small bonus to each individual source of amp? Is that what you're showing with the second calculation?

    From what I gather then, if we take Levik's, WF HF I and Eldritch amp before and after Finger we should see something like...
    Before: [1.2 * 1.1 + 0.1(?)] * 0.65 = 0.923 this looks right to me
    After: (1.2 +0.1*1.2) * (1.1 + 0.1 * 1.1) * 0.65 = 1.3ish? this doesn't (looks too high)
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  18. #118
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Edited previous post for brainfart.

    SO, the finger necklace applies a small bonus to each individual source of amp? Is that what you're showing with the second calculation?

    From what I gather then, if we take Levik's, WF HF I and Eldritch amp before and after Finger we should see something like...
    Before: [1.2 * 1.1 + 0.1(?)] * 0.65 = 0.923 this looks right to me
    After: (1.2 +0.1*1.2) * (1.1 + 0.1 * 1.1) * 0.65 = 1.3ish? this doesn't (looks too high)
    If you replace the 1.3 in Aaxeyu's formula by the 0.65 for warforged you should get the correct result.

    (0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1) * 100% = 88%
    (0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1*1.2) * 100% = 90%

    Whatever character you have though, the difference will always be 2% for this example with leviks bracers and finger.
    Last edited by Forzah; 01-17-2011 at 09:12 AM.

  19. #119
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    If you replace the 1.3 in Aaxeyu's formula by the 0.65 for warforged you should get the correct result.

    (0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1) * 100% = 88%
    (0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1*1.2) * 100% = 90%

    Whatever character you have though, the difference will always be 2% for this example with leviks bracers and finger.
    Well, does that mean that if we have Levik's (20%), Claw Gloves (30%), Eldritch Amp on DT armor (10%) and ship (10%) we'll see an increase of what with Finger applied first vs. last?
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  20. #120
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Edited previous post for brainfart.

    SO, the finger necklace applies a small bonus to each individual source of amp? Is that what you're showing with the second calculation?
    Finger necklace adds 10% healing amp that is multiplied with every bonus amp you get after you equiped the necklace.

    I suppose it could be descriped as if you got 2 healing amp bases when you equip it that are later added together.

    So for a WF with HF I, finger necklace, eldritch 10% and levik it should be like (with finger necklade equiped first):
    (0.65*1.2*1.1)+(0.1*1.2*1.1) = 0,858 + 0,132 = 0,99

    Where the red numbers are "base 1" that are not affected by the necklace, and the green numbers are "base 2" which is based on the necklace.


    It is possible that the 10% from finger necklace is based on your base healing amp, so it can be 5% for WFs. I just don't know. I tested it on a human. My testing was not very exstensive at all, so I can be wrong about this. But all numbers matched up for every combination of human amp 3, Hotd2, leviks bracers and finger necklace.
    Last edited by Aaxeyu; 01-17-2011 at 09:25 AM.

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