# Thread: The Definitive Guide to Barbarians

1. Originally Posted by sephiroth1084
You're wrong. And being a **** about it.

I could b e wrong on his actual percentage. Based on how the warforged healers friend stacks up with their normal 50% amp. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong about how healing amplification multiplies and does not add. Consider the poster claimed he was easily at 10% because his numbers added up together I'm not inaccurate.

I'm assuming his logic was 50% + 15% (healers friend) + 10 (finger necklace) + 10 (docent) + 20 (ring) = 105%

The above is not currect. If healers friend is added then it could look potentially like this:
.65 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 94%

There isn't a definitive answer on if it does and according to the wiki it's muliplied in a certain manner.

2. Originally Posted by kanbeki
what is it you're looking to know? items were listed, heals were tossed by soul binder. I might have still had airship buff.

The 10% would explain the difference.

110 x .65 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 114 point heal

Which puts you at a normal of 94% healing amp and would explain your heal.

3. Originally Posted by bendover
Then you're leaving out valuable information.

(110 x (1 + 2 x .10 (HF1)) /2) = 66 point heal

(110 x (1 + 2 x .10) /2) x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 = 95.83 point heal

(110 x (1 x 2 x .10) /2) x 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.2 x 1.3 = 124.58 point heal

Whoops should be .15 instead of .10. Could be a point off.
some sources are multiplicative some additive. for example finger necklace/docent of blood is additive if after multiplicative if before.
healers friend is additive to base.

so
(.5 (base) +.25(hf 1) +.1 (finger necklace) +.1 (docent of blood) ) * 1.2 from heal amp = 1.14 *1.3 = 1.482

4. Originally Posted by weewoo0
some sources are multiplicative some additive. for example finger necklace/docent of blood is additive if after multiplicative if before.
healers friend is additive to base.

so
(.5 (base) +.25(hf 1) +.1 (finger necklace) +.1 (docent of blood) ) * 1.2 from heal amp = 1.14 *1.3 = 1.482

It could all be. Problem is there is no definitive answer but it seems like only the healers friend adds to your base amp and then everything else is multiplied which would explain his heals. Which also shows not only were we all wrong to a degree on how it was determined but the wiki is also inaccurate in regards to healers friend.

5. Originally Posted by bendover
It could all be. Problem is there is no definitive answer but it seems like only the healers friend adds to your base amp and then everything else is multiplied which would explain his heals. Which also shows not only were we all wrong to a degree on how it was determined but the wiki is also inaccurate in regards to healers friend.
The thing to note here is that neither the Finger Necklace nor the Docent of Blood give Healing Amplification, they give the Fleshmaker and Blood-effects. As such, they don't follow the normal rules for stacking.

6. Originally Posted by Jiipster
The thing to note here is that neither the Finger Necklace nor the Docent of Blood give Healing Amplification, they give the Fleshmaker and Blood-effects. As such, they don't follow the normal rules for stacking.
I understand that it's worded different but using the forumla I used with what he had on and using the healers friend as the only additive explained his heals on the dot.

7. Originally Posted by bendover
Uhh no it doesn't. Healing amp multiplies NOT adds. You don't just add up precentages and get your new amp.

.50 x 1.1 (HF 1) x 1.2 (ring) 1.1 (finger necklace) x 1.1 (docent) = 79% amp. Not even close to 100 sorry.
You don't know how healing amp/finger necklace works. Some healing items add to your BASE healing, while others use the base healing to determine what they give. Finger necklace, Docent of blood, and HF add to your base.

50 Starting
15 HF
10 Finger necklace
10 Docent of Blood
-------
85 Base healing

That .85 is then multiplied by the 20% from the ring. So the ring gives 17% healing for a total of 102%. If you did not put the necklace and docent on before the ring, then the healing gained from the ring would be 20% less, making it a gain of 13%, for a total of 98% healing.

8. On that note, is the effect of the passive Past Life: Paladin feat additive or multiplicative to total healing amplification?

I haven't been able to find a concrete answer, but one post sort of implied that it was additive to the base score. Has anyone tested this out?

9. Originally Posted by Sweyn
You don't know how healing amp/finger necklace works. Some healing items add to your BASE healing, while others use the base healing to determine what they give. Finger necklace, Docent of blood, and HF add to your base.

50 Starting
15 HF
10 Finger necklace
10 Docent of Blood
-------
85 Base healing

That .85 is then multiplied by the 20% from the ring. So the ring gives 17% healing for a total of 102%. If you did not put the necklace and docent on before the ring, then the healing gained from the ring would be 20% less, making it a gain of 13%, for a total of 98% healing.
My understanding had been that the Finger Necklace added to base healing and applied some multiplicative bonus as well, where only one of these is applied if equipped first. May be wrong on that, but that was my impression.

10. FYI WF do get enhancement to will based enchantments.

WF construct thinking

I lmao reading the buffing bit, it´s like a fairytale

11. You spammers with the healing amp discussion should take that to new thread...
Im still waiting on them epic gearing for wf ^^

12. I really only got into it about the healing amp because WF is still a very good choice as a tank. When our "mighty" half orc barb died twice trying to tank horoth, I went with old faithful and put a WF barb on horoth instead, arcanes chipped in on heals and the healers ended up not having to use any resources despite horoths health going back to nearly full.

And once again my barb is at or over 100% healing amp because in DDO reduced heals show in a different color, you can check this in the UI settings yourself.

13. Originally Posted by sephiroth1084
My understanding had been that the Finger Necklace added to base healing and applied some multiplicative bonus as well, where only one of these is applied if equipped first. May be wrong on that, but that was my impression.
Yea, that's about how it works.

Lets say you have human healing amp 3, leviks bracers and finger necklace.

If you equip finger necklace last you will get (1.3 * 1.2 + 0.1) * 100 = 166%.
If you equip finger necklace before leviks bracers you will get (1.3 * 1.2 + 0.1*1.2) * 100 = 168%.

As items are unequiped and reequiped when logging in you can't reliably get the multiplicative bonus from finger necklace to work with enhancements, unless you never log out.

I am 99% sure that it works this way.

15. Originally Posted by Aaxeyu
Teach me to read math stuffs at a bit past 8 AM on zero sleep.

16. Originally Posted by sephiroth1084
Uh...multiplying by 0.1 represents a reduction, not an increase, in amp, and my numbers aren't matching yours. 1.3*1.2*0.1 = 0.156*100=15.6 Regardless of how you are applying numbers, I fail to see how you are getting 166.

Your second calc comes out to 0.1872. I am puzzled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_and_minus_signs

17. Edited previous post for brainfart.

SO, the finger necklace applies a small bonus to each individual source of amp? Is that what you're showing with the second calculation?

From what I gather then, if we take Levik's, WF HF I and Eldritch amp before and after Finger we should see something like...
Before: [1.2 * 1.1 + 0.1(?)] * 0.65 = 0.923 this looks right to me
After: (1.2 +0.1*1.2) * (1.1 + 0.1 * 1.1) * 0.65 = 1.3ish? this doesn't (looks too high)

18. Originally Posted by sephiroth1084
Edited previous post for brainfart.

SO, the finger necklace applies a small bonus to each individual source of amp? Is that what you're showing with the second calculation?

From what I gather then, if we take Levik's, WF HF I and Eldritch amp before and after Finger we should see something like...
Before: [1.2 * 1.1 + 0.1(?)] * 0.65 = 0.923 this looks right to me
After: (1.2 +0.1*1.2) * (1.1 + 0.1 * 1.1) * 0.65 = 1.3ish? this doesn't (looks too high)
If you replace the 1.3 in Aaxeyu's formula by the 0.65 for warforged you should get the correct result.

(0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1) * 100% = 88%
(0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1*1.2) * 100% = 90%

Whatever character you have though, the difference will always be 2% for this example with leviks bracers and finger.

19. Originally Posted by Forzah
If you replace the 1.3 in Aaxeyu's formula by the 0.65 for warforged you should get the correct result.

(0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1) * 100% = 88%
(0.65 * 1.2 + 0.1*1.2) * 100% = 90%

Whatever character you have though, the difference will always be 2% for this example with leviks bracers and finger.
Well, does that mean that if we have Levik's (20%), Claw Gloves (30%), Eldritch Amp on DT armor (10%) and ship (10%) we'll see an increase of what with Finger applied first vs. last?

20. Originally Posted by sephiroth1084
Edited previous post for brainfart.

SO, the finger necklace applies a small bonus to each individual source of amp? Is that what you're showing with the second calculation?
Finger necklace adds 10% healing amp that is multiplied with every bonus amp you get after you equiped the necklace.

I suppose it could be descriped as if you got 2 healing amp bases when you equip it that are later added together.

So for a WF with HF I, finger necklace, eldritch 10% and levik it should be like (with finger necklade equiped first):
(0.65*1.2*1.1)+(0.1*1.2*1.1) = 0,858 + 0,132 = 0,99

Where the red numbers are "base 1" that are not affected by the necklace, and the green numbers are "base 2" which is based on the necklace.

It is possible that the 10% from finger necklace is based on your base healing amp, so it can be 5% for WFs. I just don't know. I tested it on a human. My testing was not very exstensive at all, so I can be wrong about this. But all numbers matched up for every combination of human amp 3, Hotd2, leviks bracers and finger necklace.

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