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  1. #1
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    Default How I would do PvP for D&D Online

    I stopped playing D&D Online awhile back because of its lack of a decent PvP experience and the game sites that I go to show that the game gets voted down against other games mostly due to the lack of PvP while it wins pretty much hands down in PvE adventures.

    D&D Online is pretty much unique and fun and has the feal of the pen and paper game as everything is dungeoned out and instanced, and that should not change for PvP as that is what makes D&D Online unique.

    But what I think D&D Online could and should do is to start creating instanced PvP dungeons. One instanced dungeon could be set up to allow a lot of players to enter at the same time and then have a last man standing conclusion. Another could be set with tons of moveable walls and traps that players could move about to trap each other in mazes and ambush. Another could have many cages of prisoners and be a two verses two team thing where players try to free the most prisoners they can of their asigned colors before time runs out. I mean there are all sorts of instanced dungeon PvP type scenarios that D&D Online could create without losing the flavor and feel that it currently has, and some PvP dungeons can favor certain classes more than others. What this would mean is that there would be no best PvP class as each PvP dungeon would likely need or favor different characters. If you are trying to free slaves you either need to take a lot of time looking for a key or get someone who can pick or open a lock to the area and finding secret doors and passages can also save ample time.

    I would like to see PvP brought more into the game, but all PvP should be in their own customized dungeons.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasnake View Post
    game sites that I go to show that the game gets voted down against other games mostly due to the lack of PvP while it wins pretty much hands down in PvE adventures.
    This is because the developers balance and enhance the game as a pve experience , it has the best pve as the game is based off a pve system and is in fact desighned to be a pve game . It does that very well because it dosent try in any way to balance or maintain pvp .

  3. #3
    Community Member katana_one's Avatar
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    I don't PvP because it just doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. To me, it seems rather pointless. If you enjoy it, more power to you.

    However, I think there are some interesting ideas here that would actually make me want to try it.
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  4. #4
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    awesome suggestions, seasnake.

    I never thought of it that way... now that you point it out, it seems so clear. That doesn't seem all too difficult to do... the possibilities are endless for what kind of PVP dungeons to have. all different sorts of scenarios.. having more than 2 teams, free for all, having other monsters involved.. with real rewards for the winners..

    theres no reason why a ddo PVP system wouldnt kickass vs competition.. is there?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkniteyogi View Post
    awesome suggestions, seasnake.

    I never thought of it that way... now that you point it out, it seems so clear. That doesn't seem all too difficult to do... the possibilities are endless for what kind of PVP dungeons to have. all different sorts of scenarios.. having more than 2 teams, free for all, having other monsters involved.. with real rewards for the winners..

    theres no reason why a ddo PVP system wouldnt kickass vs competition.. is there?
    The game is not balanced for pvp, certainly they can create instanced dungeons to add flavour to pvp... but alot of the complaints I hear when it comes to pvp are not its lack of arenas and more about how overpowering some spells and abilities are. That will not change anytime soon as DDO spells and abilities are built and balanced for PvE.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkniteyogi View Post
    awesome suggestions, seasnake.

    I never thought of it that way... now that you point it out, it seems so clear. That doesn't seem all too difficult to do... the possibilities are endless for what kind of PVP dungeons to have. all different sorts of scenarios.. having more than 2 teams, free for all, having other monsters involved.. with real rewards for the winners..

    theres no reason why a ddo PVP system wouldnt kickass vs competition.. is there?
    Most of the people that do not want PvP are against it because any time given to PvP is time taken away from the primary focus of the game, which is PvE. Also, more PvP brings in more people whining about balancing of classes for PvP, which will break them in PvE. Plain and simple, a game has to be designed around PvP, which DDO was not. Just let PvP be what it is, and if someone wants more, they are free to get their PvP fix elsewhere.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynnjsw View Post
    Most of the people that do not want PvP are against it because any time given to PvP is time taken away from the primary focus of the game, which is PvE. Also, more PvP brings in more people whining about balancing of classes for PvP, which will break them in PvE. Plain and simple, a game has to be designed around PvP, which DDO was not. Just let PvP be what it is, and if someone wants more, they are free to get their PvP fix elsewhere.
    This... the classes cannot be PvP balanced and produce usable PvE balanced classes in the same light.



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    would be cool to see an ala gladiator style elimination tournament mode. there could be different divisions: per level, per # of build points, per class, max equipment level/value, or removing all your equipment, and arming yourself only with the weapons in the arena

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    oh yeah.. forgot about that.. so groups would be dominated by (?) healers, casters, melees, i presume.. the worst would be rogue? bard?

    maybe there are ways to balance them out without needing to change the classes themselves

    -when making a group, each class level has a different worth to the total number of points allowable. say 1 rogue level only uses 1 point. one cleric level uses 1.3 points. So when you add the numbers up, a good PVP group might consist of 5 members and a group with alotta rogues could have 6 members. Other things like Race/equipment cost could also affect total points

    -Have PVP matches where there are rules to the classes in your party. I.e. only one healer, only one melee, (or maximum X levels of healer)

  10. #10
    Community Member ToKu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkniteyogi View Post
    oh yeah.. forgot about that.. so groups would be dominated by (?) healers, casters, melees, i presume.. the worst would be rogue? bard?

    maybe there are ways to balance them out without needing to change the classes themselves

    -when making a group, each class level has a different worth to the total number of points allowable. say 1 rogue level only uses 1 point. one cleric level uses 1.3 points. So when you add the numbers up, a good PVP group might consist of 5 members and a group with alotta rogues could have 6 members. Other things like Race/equipment cost could also affect total points

    -Have PVP matches where there are rules to the classes in your party. I.e. only one healer, only one melee, (or maximum X levels of healer)
    Too complex, because then your talking about either a system that can determine if a person is a healer or not, or just a blanket limitation on classes regardless of thier build.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToKu View Post
    Too complex, because then your talking about either a system that can determine if a person is a healer or not, or just a blanket limitation on classes regardless of thier build.
    ^^^ This. It doesn't work at all unless you start cramming classes into the "Holy Trinity". How do you decide on points between an Enchanter or an Evoker Wizard? How about a Clonk vs a Healbot Cleric? The simplest solution is to leave well enough alone.

  12. #12
    Community Member donfilibuster's Avatar
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    The assumption on pvp discussions is that you will pvp solo, when clearly d&d is about parties.
    No special balance is need between classes if the brawl is between parties.

    One way to have this is to allow brawl in the pve quests, as a difficulty option.
    It saves dev time by not spending work on new arenas and should keep the pvp'ers entertained.

  13. #13
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    Any work on this would take away from development of regular quests so NO


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToKu View Post
    The game is not balanced for pvp, certainly they can create instanced dungeons to add flavour to pvp... but alot of the complaints I hear when it comes to pvp are not its lack of arenas and more about how overpowering some spells and abilities are. That will not change anytime soon as DDO spells and abilities are built and balanced for PvE.
    If the fun factor in a PvP arena is high and there isn't a focus on out right DPS then the whiney <synonym for female dog>'s will be drowned out by the flood of new players who will come to DDO and who will pay money to unlock new PvP maps which will generate more money for Turbine which will mean more money for devs to produce PvE experiences.

    My money is still on the P&E v P&E style 3 corridors/DOTA style map where the objective is to kill the opposing sides mobs and stationary structures and then destroy their home. DDO is perfectly designed for this. Simply make the structures immune to piercing weapons and magic and all the classes will be balanced (except for rogues with the stealth issue, fix that and make mobs 0% fort and give them alignment/elemental damage reduction and it'll be fine).

    I swear there is a conspiracy among the PVP haters to make regular posts demanding nerfs of PvP with usual shouting down to keep the devs in line about not considering pvp potential.

    After all that, I don't PvP. But, it could be fun.

  15. #15
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasnake View Post
    But what I think D&D Online could and should do is to start creating instanced PvP dungeons.
    Dark Age of Camelot (Darkness Falls and others)

    Quote Originally Posted by seasnake View Post
    Another could be set with tons of moveable walls and traps that players could move about to trap each other in mazes and ambush.
    Dark Age of Camelot (siegecrafting, ml effects)

    Quote Originally Posted by seasnake View Post
    Another could have many cages of prisoners and be a two verses two team thing where players try to free the most prisoners they can of their asigned colors before time runs out.
    Dark Age of Camelot (relic raiding/keep taking)

    Three factions, balanced for massive PvP with very minimal opportunities for griefing (you can't talk to the people you're fighting against through the game)

    Essentially you want things that at least 1 other game has already been specifically designed around and balanced for...this one has not and should not as others have already pointed out.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkniteyogi View Post
    would be cool to see an ala gladiator style elimination tournament mode. there could be different divisions: per level, per # of build points, per class, max equipment level/value, or removing all your equipment, and arming yourself only with the weapons in the arena
    Theres no reason you can't do this, just post in the PVP forum asking if anyone wants to sign up to a tournament and then run it, simple. No dev time needed.

  17. #17

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    Im actually not opposed to some instanced PvP dungeons. This is the approach to take IMO. As long as theres no attempt to balance the classes with each other, then Im ok with some dev resources being thrown in that direction. Some 6 or 12 last man standing dungeons complete with monsters/traps/etc would be an interesting distraction. Could even do 6v6 raid groups maybe?

    What I dont want to see is a PvP dungeons/raid with crafting and/or unique items that can only be found through PvP.

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  18. #18
    Community Member Uproar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasnake View Post
    I stopped playing D&D Online awhile back because of its lack of a decent PvP experience and the game sites that I go to show that the game gets voted down against other games mostly due to the lack of PvP while it wins pretty much hands down in PvE adventures.

    D&D Online is pretty much unique and fun and has the feal of the pen and paper game as everything is dungeoned out and instanced, and that should not change for PvP as that is what makes D&D Online unique.

    But what I think D&D Online could and should do is to start creating instanced PvP dungeons. One instanced dungeon could be set up to allow a lot of players to enter at the same time and then have a last man standing conclusion. Another could be set with tons of moveable walls and traps that players could move about to trap each other in mazes and ambush. Another could have many cages of prisoners and be a two verses two team thing where players try to free the most prisoners they can of their asigned colors before time runs out. I mean there are all sorts of instanced dungeon PvP type scenarios that D&D Online could create without losing the flavor and feel that it currently has, and some PvP dungeons can favor certain classes more than others. What this would mean is that there would be no best PvP class as each PvP dungeon would likely need or favor different characters. If you are trying to free slaves you either need to take a lot of time looking for a key or get someone who can pick or open a lock to the area and finding secret doors and passages can also save ample time.

    I would like to see PvP brought more into the game, but all PvP should be in their own customized dungeons.
    QFE -- I hate PVP, but I would love these. DAOC had some portion of the dungeon experience though not exactly. It was fun. Wow, I miss that dungeon now that I think about it. Anyways. Great ideas, that look immediately implementable to me. They also do not bring in huge issues with balance if implemented as team competitions which is how I read it.
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  19. #19
    Community Member donfilibuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettoGenius View Post
    As long as theres no attempt to balance the classes with each other, then Im ok with some dev resources being thrown in that direction.
    this. classes are meant to work as a team.

    e.g. magic is meant to be feared, yet limited.
    there's no reason that a wizard can't kill a fighter in 1v1.
    however, if u want martial power to match arcane try look in 4e

  20. #20
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    PvP is exactly as it should be in this game - an afterthought.
    When I want my PvP fix, I play another game. One that is balanced for it, and built for it. This game is neither. So, I say leave PvP in this game as-is - and if you want a "real" PvP experience, look elsewhere.
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