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  1. #1
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    Default Making a DPS multiclass build: Have questions

    Hey everyone. Im currently using the DDO Character Planner to attempt to make a powerful DPS build with good Survivability and some Utility such as UMD,trap disabling ect. based off of searching various forum posts and threads for tips. Im looking for some good multiclass combos to help me in this. So far Fighter/Barb/Rogue seems solid to me but it seems like much can be done with Monk and Paladins as well. So if anyone could do some number crunching to help me make a great build with the above mentioned criteria, and giving me suggestions for splashes and class splits to get the maximum potential out of this build that would be greatly appreciated. Oh and if Rogue is being used in a combo, should i use it as my first level for the utility criteria above my build, or would that take away from the survivability and most importantly DPS of the build, as i value DPS and survivability, the utility is just a bonus.

    P.S: I do not have access to Half Orcs and Half Elves.

    Edit: I DO have access to Warforged, Monk, and 32 Point Builds
    Last edited by MassRogue; 12-26-2010 at 12:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    OK, I'm going to use points to sort out my thoughts:

    1. Rogue should always be taken first; failing that, the class with the highest number of skill points. This is because you get 4 times the skill points at level 1. This does sometimes make leveling harder, but should not have an effect on end-game performance.

    2. Rogue and fighter/barbarian is OK as long as you don't expect to keep your rogue skills up, intim and UMD would be about it. Ranger gets lots of skill points, although their dps is slightly lower; the tempest PrE gives offhand attack and AC, as opposed to the pure damage bonuses from kensei and berserker.

    3. Rogues and DPS; on paper, sneak attack looks great, but it is highly situational. Undead and constructs are common enemies. A level or 2 for evasion and skills can be handy, though.

    4. Monks and Paladins: Paladins have always underwhelmed me. I suppose that they make good tanks now that intimidate is a class skill, but their DPS is still situational, if not as restrictive as rogues. Monks, on the other hand, are the opposite end of the spectrum; unarmed DPS is largely irrespective of the type of enemies being fought, although the two prestige classes let you pick a set of enemies to deal extra damage to, i.e. dark path is good against living enemies, light path against undead and outsiders.

    Right now, I'm getting a kick out of the synergy between 6 levels of monk on an elf; the dragonmark displacement stacks with ninja incorporeal, and with the feat to make longswords centered weapons, you can take the elf enhancements and get near-khopesh DPS with monk survivability. Say, 12 fighter/6 monk/2 rogue, kensei 2 and ninja with UMD and maybe some trap skills, depending on the build. Drow might work, also, with shortswords; higher INT and save a feat, although you don't get the dragonmark.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Right now, I'm getting a kick out of the synergy between 6 levels of monk on an elf; the dragonmark displacement stacks with ninja incorporeal, and with the feat to make longswords centered weapons, you can take the elf enhancements and get near-khopesh DPS with monk survivability. Say, 12 fighter/6 monk/2 rogue, kensei 2 and ninja with UMD and maybe some trap skills, depending on the build. Drow might work, also, with shortswords; higher INT and save a feat, although you don't get the dragonmark.
    Youre stretching that character pretty far.

    The longswords have decent but significantly less than Kopesh DPS. If you want to end up with worth while DPS you probably ought to focus everything towards either warrior style damage or rogue, trying to get it all probably isnt the good.
    Wherever you went - here you are.

  4. #4
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartwick View Post
    Youre stretching that character pretty far.

    The longswords have decent but significantly less than Kopesh DPS. If you want to end up with worth while DPS you probably ought to focus everything towards either warrior style damage or rogue, trying to get it all probably isnt the good.
    Longsword with +3 to-hit and damage plus monk ki strikes is very close to khopesh DPS (and a good bit higher against fort/ac enemies), the couple of sneak attack dice are helpful both when DPS'ing and in regaining aggro without sacrificing too much for rogue levels, while the kensei line really gets weaker as you go; kensei 3 gives the least.

    The 12/6/2 has nice multiclass synergy with good dps, survivability and a little utility (UMD), which is roughly what the OP asked for. By all means, recommend an 18/2 or 12/6/2 khopesh build and let's hash it out; I'm sure you can top the DPS, but can you do it without sacrificing survivability?

    Now, my longsword elf monk went 8 fighter/6 ranger/6 monk, but that's less utility and not really what the OP asked for, so what about:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
    (12 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 242
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    21
    Dexterity            16                    17
    Constitution         12                    12
    Intelligence         12                    13
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                     8
    Bluff                 3                     3
    Concentration         3                    14
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        5                     5
    Haggle               -1                    -1
    Heal                  2                     2
    Hide                  3                     5
    Intimidate            2                    22
    Jump                  7                    12
    Listen                2                     4
    Move Silently         3                     3
    Open Lock             7                     7
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     1
    Search                5                     7
    Spot                  2                     4
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                4                     4
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    +2 tome at 7 would help a lot; feel free to swap intimidate skill for something else, same for combat expertise if you don't plan on building up AC. For that matter, you could replace the dragonmarks with toughness' and it would still look pretty good.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  5. #5
    Community Member krud's Avatar
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    There are very few do-it-all builds. They tend to get nerfed in one way or another. The exploiter 18rgr/1rog/1mnk used to be that build, but the twf nerf cut the dps. It's still good, just not as "powerful". Other "powerful" melee multiclasses with 2rog splash just can't keep up all the trap skills. Usually they settle for umd and open locks. You are going to have to choose to focus on one aspect or another. Less dps or survivabilty for more utility, or more dps and less utility.


    My human 13rog/4ftr/3pal twf khopesh mutt fits the bill for me. All the utility of a rog, with a bit more tankability than a standard rogue. He's gonna be reincarnated into a 13rog/6pal/1ftr sometime soon, and then eventually swap the 1ftr for 1mnk (that's the same class mix as the hurtlocker build).

    stats for 32 pt human are

    16str
    15dex <-need +2 tome for twf
    14con
    10int
    8wis
    14cha

    feats: khopesh, twf, itwf, gtwf, toughness, ic:slash, PA, otwf, (1 extra feat).

    Enough skill points to cover all the trap skills and umd. Potential for high 500s dps, but not as reliant on sneak attack damage. Paladin provides some immunities as well as great saves, extra hp and dps via smites/sacrifice. Potential for good AC, though I gave up trying around level 14 or so.
    Ghallanda: Neatoelf15wiz/1rgr, Neetoelf17wiz, NeatoManhuman13rog/6pal/1mnk, NeatoHombrehuman12ftr/6pal/2rog, Kneetoedwarf17clr, Kneedoughdrow18clr/2mnk

    Minimize expectations and you'll never be disappointed

  6. #6
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    A 12Fi/7Ro/1X build does well. I've got a THF build /1Rgr that is survivable, gets good (not best) dps and lots of utility. Elite at level (or slightly higher) trap ability, and some balance/jump thrown in. I went human for the extra skill points/feat/healing and its been a fun build. You're essentially a fighter that can step in if no rogue is available, somewhat squishy, and can unfortunatley grab aggro from most. With a cleric hireling you can "solo" pretty much everything except some huge boss fights.

    My next build is going to be a 12Fi/7Ro/1monk unarmed build. I have some doubts on the high end DPS and AC, but general DPS and utility should still be there. I'm throwing around a 12Fi/5ro/3Mo to get light fists...but since I really don't like the button mashing of monk not sure its worth it.

    Can do a search for the prodigy build and there are also a bunch of other variants.

    Most of the builds I've been futzing around with have been focusing on HP, 4 or so toughness feats, 16 starting CON, 12 starting INT, and try to use rest for STR. Trying to decide on a race.
    Human makes keeping the skills up a lot easier (~24 extra skill pts help), extra feat gets me quick draw.
    Dwarf has good hp, tactics, but the rest of the skills don't really work that great. Halfling has great synergy..but the -2 str hurt.
    Half elf needs some sacrifices for cleric dilettente but can do some nice things with scrolls, its just a matter of whether its worth it with also maxing UMD.
    I thought half orc would suck with the -2 int...but I'm surprised with how well it looks. HP slightly less, skills are a bit tougher...but the str is NICE! lose some synergy by not using 2h but the +str alone and PA boosts may help.
    Elf seemed nice initially with displacement dragonmark...but not really feeling it.
    Right now I'm leaning toward human, dwarf or half orc. With all that, its still only a difference of 20-40 hp naked, and all are getting 420-460ish hp naked (with enhancements) while still getting all the weapon feats, stunning blow, quick draw (with human), and skill focus UMD and 2-4x toughness.

    If you take rogue every 3-5 levels it helps to keep your skills balanced. and then use the 4 pts (5 w/human) to keep umd/dd/search up between. Seems like you can keep 4 skills maxed with this build, UMD, search, dd, spot - with a few extra points in balance. This is keeping open lock at 4 and hoping for 20's on unlock. Thinking about dropping DD/Search, tossing a few points into lock and keeping balance/jump/spot/umd maxed with some extra in intim.

  7. #7
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    I'd go with 18 ranger/2 rogue, or the mentioned exploiter build (since evasion's not so useful if you dump dex), as it's really going to be your easiest build that's also hardest to screw up (as long as you take rogue first and then after level 9 or so). Focus on strength, start with an int of 10/12 (easily affordable), have a decent con. Ranger gets all the TWF feats for free so there's no need to have a 17 dex (although low dex (and no other reflex saves option) makes evasion fairly useless.

    Other options: a bard/rogue or bard/rogue/fighter combo: take a look at the 14 bard builds on here, or the axesinger one (if you don't mind being a dwarf). Quite a bit easier to play, especially undergeared and at low levels (self heals, buffs) but would generally have lower dps then the above. Also, bards are a lot of fun and popular in groups (even for passive buffing, as a 14 bard won't have much useful CC).

  8. #8
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    Im in the process of leveling a 6 monk 14 fighter long sword user.

    The damage is less than a lvl 20 kopesh(or even an 18f/2 r) fighter no matter how hard you try to rationalize it.

    Diluting the build for rogue skills gives even less usable DPS.
    Youre trying to play make believe, thinking you can having everything with out losing something in the compromise.

    Im not saying dont make a a multiclass build like this - Im saying your initial post so to over state the pros and almost completely ignores the cons.
    Last edited by Dartwick; 12-26-2010 at 08:10 PM.
    Wherever you went - here you are.

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