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  1. #1
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Default Are you a min/maxer?

    I know I certainly didn't start out this way but over time I have become more and more obsessed with every single point of damage I can do. Don't get me wrong, I still play for fun and enjoy the questing and I'm by no means one of the folks who goes nuts when a quest goes wrong but I do obsess over having my build perfect and squeezing out every last little bit of survivability/dps I can get through gear, tomes and enhancements.

    I suffer from minmaxism. Do you?
    Captain's Crew: (TR) Dingalbarian - Horc Barb20 - THF, Dingaladin - Human 18/2 Paladin/Monk - TWF, Lamepolicy - Squishy Drow - Wiz20 Archmage

  2. #2
    Community Member Consumer's Avatar
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    It's an addiction that I cannot and do not want to cure.

  3. #3
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Consumer View Post
    It's an addiction that I cannot and do not want to cure.
    It's a powerful addiction too.
    Captain's Crew: (TR) Dingalbarian - Horc Barb20 - THF, Dingaladin - Human 18/2 Paladin/Monk - TWF, Lamepolicy - Squishy Drow - Wiz20 Archmage

  4. #4
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoolcannon View Post
    squeezing out every last little bit of survivability/dps I can get through gear, tomes and enhancements.
    Which is it? You can't have max survivability AND max DPS...

    I try to make my characters as good they can be.... but I'm more addicted to the trade-offs of splashing classes... I rarely MAX any aspect of my characters...

    And I don't bother too much with exact measures of DPS...

    But I DO agonize over character builds.... I spend a lot of time playing with ideas on paper.... I'm almost always 1-2 feats or 2-4 build points short of what I really want...

    And so I have to balance this against that, and that against this... and make the tough choices...

    I love that part of the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  5. #5
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    In DDO, yes.

    In PnP, no.

    I find that it works better in an environment where I can use metagaming to cover up any weakness created by the "min" of min maxing.

    I am more of a build enthusiast than a true min maxer however....
    Historically: If every melee nerf after each melee class revamp was reverted back to its pre-nerf version, which melee build(s) are OP in the current meta?

  6. #6
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Which is it? You can't have max survivability AND max DPS...

    I try to make my characters as good they can be.... but I'm more addicted to the trade-offs of splashing classes... I rarely MAX any aspect of my characters...

    And I don't bother too much with exact measures of DPS...

    But I DO agonize over character builds.... I spend a lot of time playing with ideas on paper.... I'm almost always 1-2 feats or 2-4 build points short of what I really want...

    And so I have to balance this against that, and that against this... and make the tough choices...

    I love that part of the game.
    It depends on the toon whether it's survivability or DPS. On my paladin evasion build it's both. The max DPS I can get while still having fantastic survivability.

    Also, it's not about the DPS numbers, it's about the theoretical max I can get from my build through feat choices, gear and enhancements. So I think we're on the same page there.
    Captain's Crew: (TR) Dingalbarian - Horc Barb20 - THF, Dingaladin - Human 18/2 Paladin/Monk - TWF, Lamepolicy - Squishy Drow - Wiz20 Archmage

  7. #7
    Community Member AltheaSteelrain's Avatar
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    I don't really care really as long as my character is doing well, gets the job done, doesn't do anything stupid but more importantly represents "what I am in a fantasy setting".
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoJ View Post
    I've never spent more than 5 minutes in a character generator. But I've spent countless hours talking about myself, and how great I am.


    The Most Gimpiest Bard Build Ever!
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  8. #8
    Community Member TitoJ's Avatar
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    I've never spent more than 5 minutes in a character generator. But I've spent countless hours talking about myself, and how great I am.

  9. #9
    Community Member AltheaSteelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitoJ View Post
    I've never spent more than 5 minutes in a character generator. But I've spent countless hours talking about myself, and how great I am.
    Can I use this as a sig?

    Its so cool ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoJ View Post
    I've never spent more than 5 minutes in a character generator. But I've spent countless hours talking about myself, and how great I am.


    The Most Gimpiest Bard Build Ever!
    Before you start a bard, please read:
    Diva's Bard Love Guide / Genghis Khan by LeslieWestGuitarGod / Rabidly Halfling by Madmatt70

  10. #10
    Community Member stoolcannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titoj View Post
    i've Never Spent More Than 5 Minutes In A Character Generator. But I've Spent Countless Hours Talking About Myself, And How Great I Am.
    Lol
    Captain's Crew: (TR) Dingalbarian - Horc Barb20 - THF, Dingaladin - Human 18/2 Paladin/Monk - TWF, Lamepolicy - Squishy Drow - Wiz20 Archmage

  11. #11
    Community Member TitoJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltheaSteelrain View Post
    Can I use this as a sig?

    Its so cool ^^
    Go ahead lol...looks like from comparing our current sigs...we're both on the same page anyway :P.

  12. #12
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    In DDO, yes.

    In PnP, no.

    I find that it works better in an environment where I can use metagaming to cover up any weakness created by the "min" of min maxing.

    I am more of a build enthusiast than a true min maxer however....
    This.

    In PnP, I might relish certain role-playing limitations, but in DDO, there's really no role-playing to speak of. So, there's no point. If you gimp yourself, no one becomes amused by your funny limitations.
    Cannith:
    Brigette; Completionist! || Aoeryn; Wiz20(3rd life).

  13. #13
    Community Member testing1234's Avatar
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    do minimax my builds, do tend to put a couple of hours making a build and plan it in detail then compare it to similar builds i find on the forums while i consider trade offs.
    then check out of the loot the build needs is quests i like, whats the point of making a fun build if his gona keep spamming the same quests for end loot over and over that are not fun.

    when it comes to trade offs very hard to judge value of a 40% dps loss for a 80+AC but i always go for selfheal and dps but do consider DR worth sacrificing for if small sacrifice.
    when it comes to these big trade off considerations its down to taste in my opinion and here i do chose from what i enjoy but since i do the numbers on them id consider myself a mini-maxer.

  14. #14
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    Hi Stoolcannon,

    To answer your question then no.

    I completely grok the attraction/addiction to min maxing. It is an extremely valid part of this (and all the games of life) game.

    Not to get too philosophical on you, but any activity that we embrace challenges us on many levels. Each person derives their own enjoyment from a game in their own way.

    Some want as you seem to suggest, to squeeze every last iota of benefit from a build. To make the best of the best, the ubermensch of toons. Calculating every angle, every bonus, every gear combo, etc. If this is your or anyone elses goal, then there is nothing in any way wrong with this, it is how you derive enjoyment from the game.

    Some, like me, prefer flavour, which is no different from a min/max build other than its goals are to be the "best" at one particular aspect of the mechanics. So maxing a particular ability over others , knowing full well that this requires sacrifices in other areas.

    Some , don't care at all and just enjoy playing the game without caring about whether their toons are min/maxed, just enjoying the envrironment and game.

    Each player derives their own enjoyment from the game as they see fit. Some of these players will over time decide to follow down the path of min/maxing so they can enhance their enjoyment, some will not, becuase they don't require it for their own pleasure in this game.

    There is nothing wrong with min/maxing. It only becomes an issue when people suggest that this is the ONLY path.

    Regards
    Wolf

  15. #15
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
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    I used to not really care that much when I first started, but I found myself wondering if my characters were living up to their full potential, or if I'd chosen to do something in the build that had a more optimal alternative. I downloaded the character planner and started talking to people and reading about builds. While I don't generally follow other people's builds to the letter (the character just doesn't seem like "mine" the few times I've tried), it gives me ideas for improvement.

    One of my ways of having fun is wanting my characters to be the best they can be, if they have what I perceive as a flaw, they are less enjoyable to play for me. So if it's a melee, it means having max or close to max STR and decent CON, boosting/dumping other stats if I need to. If it's a caster, it means a max casting stat, as much CON as I can get, and most other stats dumped.

    So yes, I suppose I am a min-maxer.
    \

  16. #16
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    I mini-max for utility if that means anything. I never go full-******.

  17. #17
    Community Member Schmoe's Avatar
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    No.

    I fully understand the underlying concepts and the ramifications of choices I make, but I'm comfortable making sub-optimal choices for the sake of having fun. That being said, I at least make sure my characters are effective and not a total drain on the party.
    "And you ate an apple, and I ate a pear,
    From a dozen of each we had bought somewhere;
    And the sky went wan, and the wind came cold,
    And the sun rose dripping, a bucketful of gold. " - Millay

  18. #18
    Community Member diamabel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoolcannon View Post
    I know I certainly didn't start out this way but over time I have become more and more obsessed with every single point of damage I can do. Don't get me wrong, I still play for fun and enjoy the questing and I'm by no means one of the folks who goes nuts when a quest goes wrong but I do obsess over having my build perfect and squeezing out every last little bit of survivability/dps I can get through gear, tomes and enhancements.

    I suffer from minmaxism. Do you?

    I dare to claim that there exists no people that are "anti-min/maxers" (the opposite of min/maxers). They might not be min/maxing in DDO, but at something else.

    That said. Once I "beat" a game or know how to take advantage of NPCs/AI the original game get's boring. That's the point where I go for alternative goals. Try to beat a CRPG with the worst party/party composition/hopeless party (meta-gaming helps a lot). Or just try other silly things. Simply try experimenting.
    In an MMO environment you can't be that "selfish" because you play with others and have to cooperate with them.

  19. #19

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    I enjoy the thought thast goes into fine-tuning a build, almost in the same way that some people like to repair old cars. I have not played a single build to cap, though I think I have finally found a build I will want to play to cap without getting bored of it.
    Member of The Sublime Permadeath Guild on Thelanis.
    www.thesublimeguild.com

    Go Hard or Go Home!

  20. #20
    Community Member transtemporal's Avatar
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    There's an alternative to min/max?

    Surely you jest?!
    Some toons with Cow in the name, and some without.

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