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  1. #21
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    Thanks for the +rep but I don't see how do my statements support your point.
    Hence the (almost), sports fan. Keep playing. And maybe the :

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Your character is what you make it, amongst the trifecta of (Build - Gear - Player Skill).
    portion of my statement will stick with you.

  2. #22
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Perhaps in regards to the topic with the nerfs to TWF a question can be asked whether the extra effort in making a TWF build vs a THF is worth it.

    If THF is similar DPS to TWF then why go to the extra effort of crafting twice as many weapons or all those extra inventory slots taken up?

  3. #23
    Community Member Drona's Avatar
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    Default To Dearleader

    Hi dearleader

    just ignore krag.

    thnx
    Drona

  4. #24
    Community Member Snormal's Avatar
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    THF just lacks so much style compared to TWF. Also, I never see TWFers killing spiders in sleeping dust, etc etc. It's always the big guy with the greataxe.

  5. #25
    Community Member Lleren's Avatar
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    The primary advantage of Bastard Swords is cost. For the price of 2 decent Khopeshes you can get a lot of Bastard Swords.

    This advantage goes away once you are crafting Greensteel weapons.
    Occasionally playing on Cannith

    Llyren, Kelda and some others.

  6. #26
    Community Member Erekose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    Khopesh win DPS comparisons on <insert color here> names
    Heavy Picks win DPS comparisons on Epic Trash
    ESoS wins with a Pure 20 Fighter (maybe pure Pallys)
    Longbows are for Elves
    Rapiers for Rogues
    Falchions for pure 20 Barbs

    Anything else?
    DA for FBIII Dorfs, great on trash and <insert color name bosses>

    Best all round DPS on anything IMO. So far only seen 20 HO barb with ESOS come close to equal it in kill counts and is 50/50 when holding aggro against names. (only comparing pure or close to pure builds).

    Currently, highest 1st number I have seen is 544, using Lightning 2 x 2, regularly get 500+ FBIII crits and that is without, epic claw set, shintao set and Abishai 3 piece set.

    I figure roughly, with DA, around 590 first number max and 550 usual FBIII crit GTWF with all the vanilla gear.

    Base damage will be in the range of 75-90 1st number depending on situational rages.

    Damage calculators really stifle creativity and real game experience. Use with caution.

    A good melee player will always improve on statistical data.
    Last edited by Erekose; 12-06-2010 at 06:07 AM.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Consumer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erekose View Post
    DA for Dwarfs, great on trash and <insert color name bosses>

    Best all round DPS on anything IMO. So far only seen 20 HO barb with ESOS come close to equal it in kill counts and is 50/50 when holding aggro against names.
    Equip the Barb with Khopeshs and he beats the epic SoS DPS on all fortifications.

    Luckily DPS isn't based on what people have seen and is based on relatively easily measurable numbers.

  8. #28
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    yes, my Dwarven Tempest loves his GS DA - with the AP enhancements he does probably almost as much dmg as a human with Khopeshes (I believe there is just a tiny smidgen of difference) & as a dwarf he gets an extra 50 hp which makes up the difference in dmg, especially on a ranger.

  9. #29
    Community Member jmonty's Avatar
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    i was using some short swords on my dark monks until i got good wraps. they still make good smiters

    plus dwarven axes on my ranger and pallys

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snormal View Post
    THF just lacks so much style compared to TWF. Also, I never see TWFers killing spiders in sleeping dust, etc etc. It's always the big guy with the greataxe.
    Actually, I have. That was me with a vorp. Damn that 20 when I didn't want it

    Tindalos
    Officer of the Bloody Toe Cutters, Thelanis

    PS - It wasan accident, I swear. Vorped the Ogre Mage in front of me and the spider, in its unavoidable rage, threw itself on the edge of my sword (a Scimi btw) and......oooopppppsss.

  11. #31
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    I know good players using khopeshes and bad terrible players using whatever.
    If you are a friend or guildie you get accepted regardless. Suggesting underwhelming weapons like BS to a newer player struggling to prove his worth is a very very bad form.
    When did I ever suggest such?

    Point is however if that is what someone uses I do not shastise them nor segregate them for such. Fact is I know plenty of POWER GAMERS with characters using all types of weapons... They do not care in some instances and rely on other loot and skill. There is not one fomula for success.

    Yes, I been known to scream and carry on whenever anyone suggest some crazy nerf to my Khopehes ... yes I have three melee which use them (dual min II for bosses and dual lit II for epics), and some people are also plain eejit if they think kill count is some form of measure of DPS outside of Epic... I also have six other melee character who do not use khopeshes.

    The Khopesh is a good weapon ... is a good all around in many situations - but you're far from off-base thinking it's the best for all situations.

    Last edited by Emili; 12-06-2010 at 06:29 AM.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krag View Post
    Monks have to use wraps. It can't be helped, but they have all kinds of stuns and ToD to make themselves useful.
    As for the acrobat rogues I have seen a few in epic quests and they were far behind khopesh-based rogues. Could be a coincidence.
    Um, you know, most of the thief-acrobats I've seen are a tad more useful for the party than kopesh rogues. Because they have stun and other useful abilites to make up for it.

    Sure, if you evaluate builds by kill count, your life is simple. But you can kopesh all you want, most damage from a group will come from the one who stuns/helds (and second most the one with the picks), and kopesh is not really effective with that.

    Also, what about barbs? I mean, they would be better off with kopeshes, so why are those 'gimps' running around with THF?

    And if anything, the best suggestion to a new player is to use bs instead of kopeshes. Bs are cheaper, and that +3 hb of pg you buy for the fraction of a price for a +1 frost of unimportance kopesh does far more damage (and don't get me started on breaking dr). If you have the capital to invest in a toon and you want max dps, go kopesh. If you miss either of those (bah, what am I saying, who doesn't want max dps toons), you really don't need to burn a feat for them.
    Last edited by Lord_WC; 12-06-2010 at 06:29 AM.

  13. #33
    Community Member painindaguild's Avatar
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    Well after all it doesnt matter that much at all. I quote sirgog (sorry search didnt work once more)
    with his statement about healing shrouds in terrible groups:

    the main point causing wipes is not the low dps of melee, but the low hp and healing amp of them. if it takes the melee 5 rounds to beat harry down, i will heal 5 rounds. it works, job gets done.

    however if people with 300 hp and just 100% healing amp with DR beaters khopesh comes in, a wipe is near.


    i personally favor dwarven axes, cus they look cool, do decent damage, and most importantly, bring extra hp in.

    khopesh is absolutely better but ur hp decides if u can melee, not ur dps.

  14. #34
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    And now to the serious topic at hand. Khops are beautiful weapons. Great for dps. BUT, there is always a but. I prefer playing toons that have a history, or CHARACTER so to speak. If everyone uses Khopeshes, then aren't they just copies of each other.

    Both my Ranger builds are elves and use scimis as their primary weapons. In some instances, I will swap to light picks or kukris for off hand use (based upon what I have available) on Tindalos while Bal dual weilds oversized weapons with ease.

    Granted, my full dps is not the same as the Khopesh builds (and I have thought of changing to Khops for that reason), but my overall dps based upon rate of attack (+10% alacrity cause of Jor's Collar, as well as speed boosts) keeps me close to other melee twf (using Khopeshes or any other weapon for that matter) builds in overall damage done.

    Maybe its just me, but really, do we want all these build clones running around with no real idea about actually running these quests, expecting that wholly and solely DPS (and decent healers) will get them thru the run. Experimentation is the spice of life and I do believe that players need to experiment with their weapon selections to discover how the different damage types work, and on what.

    I still find it strange how many players don't know that Mets of PG bypass Raid Boss DRs....or that Anarchic Bursters are probably better than GCBs on portals (actually Anarchic Bursting Khopeshes would work wonders on Portals........)

    Tindalos
    Officer of the Bloody Toecutters, Thelanis Branch
    Last edited by Daltric; 12-06-2010 at 07:50 AM.

  15. #35
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by painindaguild View Post
    Well after all it doesnt matter that much at all. I quote sirgog (sorry search didnt work once more)
    with his statement about healing shrouds in terrible groups:

    the main point causing wipes is not the low dps of melee, but the low hp and healing amp of them. if it takes the melee 5 rounds to beat harry down, i will heal 5 rounds. it works, job gets done.

    however if people with 300 hp and just 100% healing amp with DR beaters khopesh comes in, a wipe is near.


    i personally favor dwarven axes, cus they look cool, do decent damage, and most importantly, bring extra hp in.

    khopesh is absolutely better but ur hp decides if u can melee, not ur dps.
    Oh as far as I'm concerned goes beyond that... is a marrage of the two. Some people can play a 450 hp melee and do just fine. When it comes to boss fights it's DPS::Mana bar ratio... I've been in elite runs where the DPS is so strong the cleric is still left with 3/4 or more mana when the boss is dead... go figure.

    As for those trying to estimate what others are putting out as far as DPS you have a hard time doing so unless you're standing there timing that single person swinging at some training dummy or a held/stunned epic mob - alone. It is near impossible to determine such by kill count as all that shows is who got the killing blow... and the character with the quickest roa is usually the one takes it...

    If you note... this is a ToD run - just normal. My Myara - a pure rogue is actually more dex than str... She is Str 26 while her dex is 34, far behind my other characters in gear and such she gets a lot less attention from me...

    Shall you note however she has almost double the kill count of the closest character - a monk (13 kills), and there are two kotc pallys in group - both Kotc - one wielding dual khopeshes (6 kills) the other also an eSoS (11 kills) and a Gtwf WF barb wielding - two khopeshes (7 kills)... The heavier tanking toons got fewer kills respectively... afterall they were busy "tanking." Want to know something? Myara was using a GS Radiance rapier and a +5 metalline SS of PG. I also see these same circumstances in epic and other raids - matters not the difficulty and often times does not matter what character I play. I will be honest however I have a few toons push good DPS yet still even with the lower dps toon I am in the running to be high in the thick of things.





    Last edited by Emili; 12-06-2010 at 10:44 AM.
    A Baker's dozen in the Prophets of the New Republic and Fallen Heroes.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Bolo_Grubb's Avatar
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    play what you like

    like what you play


    really isn't the differences between different weapon type pretty small? Percentage points? single digits percentage points?

    And I assume that the difference will change depending on the situation. Over the course of a single fight, boss fight, the entire quest.

    In any case have fun. Enjoy, it is a game after all
    Kill'em all and let their favorite deity sort'em out
    Quote from a shroud run "I am an idiot, not a newb"

  17. #37
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post
    If you note... this is a ToD run - just normal. My Myara - a pure rogue is actually more dex than str... She is Str 26 while her dex is 34, far behind my other characters in gear and such she gets a lot less attention from me...
    Chances are, you do out-DPS melee that weren't tanking, on trash. Even a DEX rogue does a lot of damage when she's getting sneak attack. You probably fall pretty far behind on the bosses, though. A top-DPS STR-Rogue can still out-DPS a Barb vs 50% Fort, but I'm guess yours don't.

    And kill counts aren't a great measure of DPS where it really counts. My Bard regularly gets top kills in ToD as long as I'm not assigned to scroll healing. Probably because I use LitIIs that tear through trash quite nicely, but are at best only slightly above even with MinIIs vs. the Bosses. I also often kill the eles, and Vorpal the dogs, in part 1.

    Basically, I'm often the first to peel off the bosses to take care of trash, because my Bard is better geared for fighting trash over Bosses. I suspect you play similarly on your Rogue.

  18. #38
    Community Member PCNONSENSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo_Grubb View Post
    play what you like

    like what you play


    really isn't the differences between different weapon type pretty small? Percentage points? single digits percentage points?

    And I assume that the difference will change depending on the situation. Over the course of a single fight, boss fight, the entire quest.

    In any case have fun. Enjoy, it is a game after all
    This!! I couldnt say it better - As Uber as most people are that post on this forum, you would think the small percentage point difference would be made up by their pure awesomeness!!! But - NO!!! You do .55% less dps than this build so you SUCK!!! LOL funny really, I wonder when this became less of a game and more of a job for these people?

    Oh and +1 for keeping it real

  19. #39
    Community Member DDOTalk71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aalric View Post
    yes, my Dwarven Tempest loves his GS DA - with the AP enhancements he does probably almost as much dmg as a human with Khopeshes (I believe there is just a tiny smidgen of difference) & as a dwarf he gets an extra 50 hp which makes up the difference in dmg, especially on a ranger.
    But the Human has healing amp. And the AP vs. the feat is also something to consider. On a Ranger, the feat might be more precious. On a fighter, the AP's are precious. Especially if you want that 4th tier of class and racial HP.
    Asheras - Velania - Ventarya - Renvar - Vallorynn - Officer - Loreseekers and Sentinels Guilds - Khyber

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOTalk71 View Post
    On a Ranger, the feat might be more precious. On a fighter, the AP's are precious. Especially if you want that 4th tier of class and racial HP.
    I was talking about ranger tempests who tend to be somewhat squishy. 50hp there makes a big difference and is th main reason why I don't TR into a HO Ranger - sure, he'd do about 3 more dmg per hit (which is a lot) but he'd be much squishier & have a lower Bab.

    But on a fighter or a barb, you have hp galore. So throw away that armour, grab a loincloth for your HO & start swinging your ESOS

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