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  1. #1
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Wink That strange Ritual called "Thanksgiving"

    As the server was all up over this meet-and-eat Thanksgiving thing, i (as an unaffected outside observer) decided to do some research what the fuzz was all about.

    I found the point of Divergence, why the US has Thanksgiving, and in Germany we dont. At first it started out remarkably similar in the history of both countries.

    A great advanced Civilization made contact with the natives, to do some colonizing, but then "First Contact" developed ... somewhat differently ......:





    American Version:






    And thus was born a National Holiday.










    German Version:












    And thus was born another paragraph for german history books.







    And that is why Zhe Germans have no Thanksgiving!
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

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  2. #2
    Community Member iAreTehDoc's Avatar
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    I would not describe the ancient romans as a great advanced civilisation.

  3. #3
    Community Member Khanyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    And that is why Zhe Germans have no Thanksgiving!
    When I lived in Germany for a year, we did celebrate Erntedankfest. Others did too. That's zee German thanksgiving, no?


    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post
    I would not describe the ancient romans as a great advanced civilisation.
    And you'd be wrong.
    Last edited by Khanyth; 11-26-2010 at 08:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Hero Yazston_the_Invoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post
    I would not describe the ancient romans as a great advanced civilisation.
    At the time, they were...they had roads!
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  5. #5
    Community Member iAreTehDoc's Avatar
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    In Northern England and Wales archeologists found roads, built by celtic tribes, much older than any roman roads. In France coins were found, made by Gallic tribes, much older than any roman coin found...

    Lots of things considered "roman" have actually been invented by other peoples. The main thing the romans were good at was assimilating those things and using them to their benefit.

    And besides all that civilised accomplishements there are many roman habits i'd rather consider barbaric, like slavery, public manslaughter encouraged as a sport, killing unwanted or disfigured children right after birth... and many more.

    But back to the topic:

    The Erntedankfest in Germany has a rather religous background because - as the name says - it is about thanking God for a good Harvest. Most of the celebration is organized by the church. Though I have no idea how big the religous background on thanksgiving is, i 'd consider this as the main difference.

  6. #6
    Community Member Khanyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post
    In Northern England and Wales archeologists found roads, built by celtic tribes, much older than any roman roads. In France coins were found, made by Gallic tribes, much older than any roman coin found...

    Lots of things considered "roman" have actually been invented by other peoples. The main thing the romans were good at was assimilating those things and using them to their benefit.
    Which is why the roman civilization was advanced for its time.


    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post
    And besides all that civilised accomplishements there are many roman habits i'd rather consider barbaric, like slavery, public manslaughter encouraged as a sport, killing unwanted or disfigured children right after birth... and many more
    I think you need to check your 20th century ethos/ethics/values at the door when studying ancient civilizations.

    These habits that you consider barbaric are not roman; just about every ancient civilization did these things.

  7. #7
    Community Member toughguyjoe's Avatar
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    For us, it is Delicious.

    For the Turkey, it is the HOLOCAUST!
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  8. #8
    Community Member Milamber69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazston_the_Invoker View Post
    At the time, they were...they had roads!
    And the aquaduct!

  9. #9
    Community Member iAreTehDoc's Avatar
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    I do not agree, but can live with the fact that you have a differen opinion.
    Let's not make this a personal thing about historical/ethic/whatever kind of correctness, 'kay?

    Anyways, why is it a Turkey and not a chicken?

  10. #10
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanyth View Post
    When I lived in Germany for a year, we did celebrate Erntedankfest. Others did too. That's zee German thanksgiving, no?

    While the thematic is close, Erntedankfest a minor, purely religious festivity held in church. - So minor in fact that most people wouldn´t even be able to tell you the date it´s held at, just "somewhere in autumn", with many not being able to tell you if it is still coming, or has already passed this year.


    They are not really comparable:
    * purely religious vs. secular
    * only in church vs. whole family at home
    * one date everywhere vs differing dates depending on region and denomination
    * important national holiday vs. not noticed by majority of population

    In society Erntedank goes effectively unnoticed, which is a stark contrast to the second Christmas-like importance Thanksgiving seems to have.
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

    AOK - From Argonnessen

  11. #11
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post

    Lots of things considered "roman" have actually been invented by other peoples. The main thing the romans were good at was assimilating those things and using them to their benefit.
    Practically the very definition of an advanced civilisation then. There's also lots of things that the current developed countries have and make use of that have been invented by other people (most of those people being Scottish from the looks of things!). That's what humans do. Learn from each other and adapt. Those civilisations who are best at it thrive and become 'great'.

    In recent years there's a bit of a reversal in that everyone is adopting and adapting US culture and turning it into a global monosuperculture but the only real difference is that (unless you beleive certain out there conspiracy theories) the US isn't doing that deliberately in an attempt to spread 'empire'.

    The Roman Empire survived for over two thousand years, and was thriving and growing for at least the first 1500 or so of those years. I would be amazed - staggered even- if any of our modern societies survive that long. I rather hope I don't live long enough to see how right I am though...
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  12. #12
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Here in the UK, Thanksgiving this year was just called "Thursday" by many people.

    However, by me & some friends at work it was called "Pay Day" and we celebrated with pizza.

    And there was much rejoicing
    Last edited by FuzzyDuck81; 11-26-2010 at 10:22 AM.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  13. #13
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    The first Thanksgiving was simply a Harvest Festival. As long as your country has a harvest festival, you have a version of thanksgiving. I'm pretty sure they are not limited to the United States.
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  14. #14
    Hero Dark_Uncle72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post
    Anyways, why is it a Turkey and not a chicken?
    I had Corndogs and rolls tyvm (poor man's t-day)
    "I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied...
    Learn to swim..."

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    Embrace this moment, remember, we are eternal
    All this pain is an illusion"

  15. #15
    Hero Yazston_the_Invoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAreTehDoc View Post
    Anyways, why is it a Turkey and not a chicken?
    Because they helped us defeat the british!!!
    http://www.fi.edu/franklin/birthday/faq.html#21

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  16. #16
    Community Member Khanyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    While the thematic is close, Erntedankfest a minor, purely religious festivity held in church. - So minor in fact that most people wouldn´t even be able to tell you the date it´s held at, just "somewhere in autumn", with many not being able to tell you if it is still coming, or has already passed this year.


    They are not really comparable:
    * purely religious vs. secular
    * only in church vs. whole family at home
    * one date everywhere vs differing dates depending on region and denomination
    * important national holiday vs. not noticed by majority of population

    In society Erntedank goes effectively unnoticed, which is a stark contrast to the second Christmas-like importance Thanksgiving seems to have.
    Agreed. The more I think about it, the more remember that it wasn't that big of a deal. I was getting it and Herbstferien confused/mixed up.

    Because it was 20+ years ago that we were on our Lehreraustauch, I think we canadian-ized our Erntedank by going to church and then having a big family meal like we do in canada. Instead of the turkey, we had Puten-schnitzel... I do remember that!

  17. #17
    Community Member GBantaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazston_the_Invoker View Post
    Because they helped us defeat the british!!!
    http://www.fi.edu/franklin/birthday/faq.html#21

    Dag nabit! I wanted to bring up the Ben Franklin turkey thing! Curse you to the bottomless pits of Hell!

    But while you're still here, +1 for the link.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Dulcimerist's Avatar
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    I thought that Germany had Oktoberfest, but it appears as though that's mostly limited to the Bavarian region.
    "Swords will cut you wide open!" - Trip Fisk

  19. #19
    Community Member Khanyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimerist View Post
    I thought that Germany had Oktoberfest, but it appears as though that's mostly limited to the Bavarian region.
    ... as much as Cinco de Mayo is limited to mexicans

    EDIT: A bad example, but no... Oktoberfest is not just limited to Bayern. Hell, here in winnipeg, it's a week long tradition too
    Last edited by Khanyth; 11-26-2010 at 12:02 PM.

  20. #20
    Founder Rylex_Night-Shield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milamber69 View Post
    And the aquaduct!

    Alright, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water systems, and public health. What have the Romans ever done for us?

    Brought peace?

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