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  1. #41
    Community Member donfilibuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddahcjcc View Post
    I always find it funny that with discussions like this people always say "well at high levels...." to explain why something isnt broken.
    I'll insist and say the point do apply to all levels low or high or epic.

    At lower levels you craft a trinket of unlimited charges of magic missile, fairly cheap, but you still can cast one per standart action.
    Technically works better than shooting arrows if you are not in close combat, but otherwise a full round of attacks does more damage.

    At high levels you may craft your trinket of some better spell, say, ice storm, not so cheap but still can manage to fire it once per round.
    Problem is your foes are probably strong or smart enough to endure a couple rounds to get to you and engage.
    And that's besides the fact the DM may copy your tactics on the grounds that the NPCs are not as stupid as on machine AI.

    On epic levels however, the fights may take place in a single round, but that round will take forever to resolve.
    There's such thing as too many rolls to make, and a lot will be opposed rolls alone.
    At this point you can't really count on magic items let alone craft them.
    But this kind of game isn't the norm in d&d as you mention, the lower levels are more down to earth naturally.

    With 4e they wanted to cease worrying about charges, slots and activation and changed it to abilities that can be used per quest or per round, thus much easier to track.
    So now you have unlimited magic missiles that might still not be too different from firing arrows, which you won't track as well and just assume you won't empty your quiver in one fight.

  2. #42
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    What edition can you craft wands with uinlimited charges at 1st level?
    Im actually curious as I didnt know you could

  3. #43
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddahcjcc View Post
    What edition can you craft wands with uinlimited charges at 1st level?
    Im actually curious as I didnt know you could
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...MagicItems.htm

    You can craft an unlimited charge, level 1 magic missile item for 1800 gp. That's within the expected wealth by level for a third level 3.5 character. 4E's 1st level is pretty analogous to 3.5's third level.

    In any event, there's nothing overpowering about at-will spells in 4E. All it means is the wizard doesn't need to pick up a crossbow at low level and be useless most of the day. It's still wise to reserve their good spells for the optimal time to use.

  4. #44
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddahcjcc View Post
    4e is what happens when WOTC goes "WoW makes a lot of money, D&D makes a lot of money... so lets combine them in PnP form. We'll be rich!"

    Does anyone actually play this system? Everyone I know bought the books and then ebayed them.



    this.
    4th ed is heresy... heretics must be purged with fire lol
    I didn't ebay them... the prices on 4e books are way low for used. Looking on Amazon, I can actually buy the used 4E stuff almost as cheaply as AD&D/2ed stuff, which I'm filling out my collection off now. On the other hand, official D&D 3.5e books are often times priced higher (in some cases much, much higher) than they originally sold for.

    I pre-ordered the core 3, was disappointed in it, and only bought one other book. For a class which should have been in the PHB, not a supplement. I'm considering Pathfinder, but right now my PnP budget is focused on 2ed stuff, which is dirt cheap, and can usually be grabbed off Amazon for less than $10 a pop, and cheaper 3.5e stuff I missed. Some 3.5e stuff I won't ever get, as it's shot up to $50 and even as high a $100+.

    Makes me wonder if 4e will even be sellable on the used market once 5e comes out. And I think it will, I think at this point they've realized they goofed, between the OGL changes and the whole mistake of gutting and replacing the entire system; and they're working on 5e as we speak.
    It was the night before Hogswatch....

    Optimus Prime/Grimlock 2016 Because in diplomacy, sending in the Dinobots is the only answer.

  5. #45
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    Ive been playing Pathfinder for a while now, since I gave away (yes GAVE) my 4th ed books to a local shop and told the owner I didnt want anything for them. He almost didnt take them even then.

    Pathfinder is OK, but its still far far too easy to break the system. I do like how Cleave or rather Great Cleave doesnt require you to drop a guy, its just a attack everyone type thing (I thought that was Whirlwind attack).

    Other than that Ive had fun with it (trying NOT to break the system while still having fun)

  6. #46
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddahcjcc View Post
    Ive been playing Pathfinder for a while now, since I gave away (yes GAVE) my 4th ed books to a local shop and told the owner I didnt want anything for them. He almost didnt take them even then.

    Pathfinder is OK, but its still far far too easy to break the system. I do like how Cleave or rather Great Cleave doesnt require you to drop a guy, its just a attack everyone type thing (I thought that was Whirlwind attack).

    Other than that Ive had fun with it (trying NOT to break the system while still having fun)
    I finally broke down and bought the Pathfinder core set, but haven't taken the time to really look through it. I do like, however, that it is effectively the PHB and DMG combined.
    It was the night before Hogswatch....

    Optimus Prime/Grimlock 2016 Because in diplomacy, sending in the Dinobots is the only answer.

  7. #47
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cam_Neely View Post
    I agree, never said it was overpowered. Bit unbalancing, yes. Nasty Dmg, ya for a minor at will on low level character, but on lv 2x, 14 dmg is not much at all. On the balancing part, its just that this is on a controller, not a striker in the 4e world. Def not 'uber', and never claimed it was.

    Chai, as much as you love to turn these into a '3.5 is better, or I could have done this in 3.5' please don't. Have a look at the Original Post. Do you think this is good for WotWC? Is this a step towards something better?

    "Does this mean with that WotWC have realized a potential err in their progression from 3.5 to 4?"
    Nothing will be better from them until they dump 4e and its devs.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Nothing will be better from them until they dump 4e and its devs.
    this.
    it was a waste of time and energy imo.
    Its done more to hurt the D&D image FOR ME (please note those two words) than any of those "D&D is teh devil" tracts I ever saw or any ad campaign ever lol

  9. #49
    Community Member sainy_matthew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Nothing will be better from them until they dump 4e and its devs.
    Technically they've alread dumped the Dev of 4E... He quit & thats why we got 4E Essentials. Because WotC figured out they had taken completely the wrong direction with the new edition but there was nothing they could do about it.

    -M

  10. #50
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Coming out with version five or re release of a version 3.x would create an uproar too
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  11. #51
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrael4h View Post
    I didn't ebay them... the prices on 4e books are way low for used. Looking on Amazon, I can actually buy the used 4E stuff almost as cheaply as AD&D/2ed stuff, which I'm filling out my collection off now. On the other hand, official D&D 3.5e books are often times priced higher (in some cases much, much higher) than they originally sold for.

    I pre-ordered the core 3, was disappointed in it, and only bought one other book. For a class which should have been in the PHB, not a supplement. I'm considering Pathfinder, but right now my PnP budget is focused on 2ed stuff, which is dirt cheap, and can usually be grabbed off Amazon for less than $10 a pop, and cheaper 3.5e stuff I missed. Some 3.5e stuff I won't ever get, as it's shot up to $50 and even as high a $100+.

    Makes me wonder if 4e will even be sellable on the used market once 5e comes out. And I think it will, I think at this point they've realized they goofed, between the OGL changes and the whole mistake of gutting and replacing the entire system; and they're working on 5e as we speak.

    Take a look at hackmaster basic and soon hackmaster advanced compatible with each other they redid keep on the border lands really nice its sweet system hackmaster no longer a joke system

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  12. #52
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sainy_matthew View Post
    Technically they've alread dumped the Dev of 4E... He quit & thats why we got 4E Essentials. Because WotC figured out they had taken completely the wrong direction with the new edition but there was nothing they could do about it.

    -M
    Well WOTC lost me forever with 4E I tried it for a year and even ran two dnd game days for them not to mention countless magic tournies I wont do that again soon as I finish school(again) I will join the hackmaster demo team and run kenzer games at least they have two different types now old west and fantasy.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  13. #53
    Community Member sainy_matthew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Well WOTC lost me forever with 4E I tried it for a year and even ran two dnd game days for them not to mention countless magic tournies I wont do that again soon as I finish school(again) I will join the hackmaster demo team and run kenzer games at least they have two different types now old west and fantasy.
    Hackmaster Basic & Ace an Eights. I am well aware of both games. Played them both to different degrees, both are pretty good.

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