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  1. #61
    Community Member Nuralanya's Avatar
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    I seem to be lagging behind by a week... Deisyr just got out of Korthos today, and is only one rank into level 3. I doubt I'll have time to run WW during the week, but I may give it a go if I get the chance. Probably won't be ready for Tangleroot and so on by next Sunday though!

    I can really only commit to the Sunday afternoon sessions. I may have a couple of hours during the week to run stuff, but not always. (Some of us have a full time job, a family, obligations on other servers, and a life outside the game... *gasp* )

    If this is going to be an issue and I'm always going to be behind the rest of you, maybe I ought to rethink whether I should be a 'static' member or a Free Agent? At the moment I seem to be just zerging stuff to try and catch up, and not actually roleplaying at all because it slows me down! I can see myself getting further and further behind the main group as time goes on.

  2. #62
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuralanya View Post
    I seem to be lagging behind by a week... Deisyr just got out of Korthos today, and is only one rank into level 3. I doubt I'll have time to run WW during the week, but I may give it a go if I get the chance. Probably won't be ready for Tangleroot and so on by next Sunday though!

    I can really only commit to the Sunday afternoon sessions. I may have a couple of hours during the week to run stuff, but not always. (Some of us have a full time job, a family, obligations on other servers, and a life outside the game... *gasp* )


    If this is going to be an issue and I'm always going to be behind the rest of you, maybe I ought to rethink whether I should be a 'static' member or a Free Agent? At the moment I seem to be just zerging stuff to try and catch up, and not actually role playing at all because it slows me down! I can see myself getting further and further behind the main group as time goes on.

    You're not the only one who feels like they are zerging... and I'm in the groups! Seriously though, I know some of us have run these quests a million times, but I feel like I'm getting dragged along through half of these. If I stop to type, WHOOSH, left in the dust.


    I think there is more focus on the 'static' aspect of this group, and not enough on the 'role play,' and I don't think people are putting as much effort as they could be into acting as though these quests are the 'first time' for their character.


    One advantage I have role playing my character over some other players, is that this is my first rogue; and I haven't run the quests enough times to know where the traps are located (some of Dallog's comrades have probably noticed his tendency to find the traps with his face). This is because Dallog (and I) honestly have no idea where the traps are supposed to be, yet Dallog is the only one who ever gets killed by them. I see some players who sprint down the dungeon corridors but never seem to spring a trap or miss a secret door.


    I also think people are sacrificing role play for expediency (which is probably why they are sprinting down corridors like they've been there a hundred times). As we were waiting to form up for WW there were eight of us, so there was talk of splitting into two 4 person groups. For expediency's sake, the groups were divided based on class, not character personality. As a result, characters who are supposed to be biased toward other races (at least at first) were lumped into the group with the race they didn't like. No questions raised (except by me), and I felt we missed an opportunity for some good role play.


    Sure we blew through WW today, but frankly I didn't enjoy it much. It felt like any other PUG run. When I actually tried to role play, I felt I was slowing the group down. I know people want to get the most out of their playing time, but if I wanted to sprint through quests I already know, I can do that with any PUG.


    I propose a few things that I think will help:


    1- slow down. If the rogue is scouting ahead, people shouldn't be sprinting past him unless they are playing a reckless character who will be springing traps and ambushes all over the place.


    2- appoint a party/group leader for each quest and follow his/her lead. I'm seeing people playing on auto-pilot. Yes some people actually do say "hey should we take this ladder?" But more often than not, they just run up it. And I find myself being pulled along with them b/c I don't want to feel like I'm holding the party back.


    3- let the player with the LEAST experience (with that quest) be party leader for that quest and make the decisions about where to go, which doors to try, which option to go after, etc. The best part of running STK for me was when our wizard got lost because he had never been there before. Our party was in disarray, we were trying to regroup, and yeah we almost wiped, but so what? That's what makes it thrilling at times. Other than that moment, or my monumental brain fart at the end, I thought we zerged our way through most of that quest on autopilot.



    That's not to say I think everything is bad, it isn't. Some of the role play has been clever, funny, and creative. But I feel that aspect of our guild can get turned off once we get inside the quest, and, frankly, I feel there are a couple of players who we allow dictate the pace rather than say "hold on a sec, remember we've never been here before, and here you are running off at top speed. Let's slow down, re-group, and act like its our first time."


    I don't know, maybe we need different groups so people can play at the pace they enjoy. Fast group for the people who play more frequently, and a slower group for people who only play once a week. Some people are already almost to level six, but I'm barely level four, and some of our other regulars are still at level 3. I know I'm considering starting another hero (but if I have to run Korthos again I'll pull my own eyes out), or at least a free agent so I can group with characters like Deisyr & Scoti & Fallane who haven't been playing as frequently.
    Last edited by Postumus; 11-14-2010 at 08:35 PM.

  3. #63
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Well said Postumus

    I can commit once a week to the Tuesday night session, and the occasional make up time during the week. That's really about it. If I can't keep up the leveling pace then what is going to happen?

    I've been heavily involved in static groups for over a year. One thing I've learned is that pace you set has to be the pace of the slowest person. Maximizing your xp gain is important, but not at the cost of diminishing others players enjoyment or confusing inexperienced players. Add a RP aspect to the mix, and things just get more complicated.

    I joined DBF to get the full "it's the journey, not the destination" experience. I'm hoping that will be the case for our Tuesday night group. I have no desire to rush to cap. I'd rather take my time, get to know my groups personalities and playstyles and have some fun.

    I'm not saying things are bad, as my play time so far has be great. I just want to see that everyone is one the same page.

  4. #64
    Community Member Kinryu's Avatar
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    I have to agree totally with Postumus on this (thanks for the insight). I only have to look to myself to see that I should be putting more of the roleplay and the idea of "first time in quest" into effect. I remember standing near the fire trap in part 1 of WW, knowing full well that the trap was there when I should have rushed on through (based on the playstyle of before). This is something that I need to keep in focus.

    I also agree that this run seemed a bit too zerg-like. This does significantly diminish the roleplaying aspect which in turns takes me out of my character's "warforged hate" mind. If I do stop and type, I'm left in the dust just like Postumus mentioned. I will challenge myself to put roleplay first and foremost (apologies in advance to all Warforged players as well as Dwarves - it's not you, it's me lol), and I think we should all make a similar challenge.

    Perhaps there's a bit too much pressure to get up in levels as quickly as possible. Maybe we should take our time a bit more and put level advancing on the back burner.

    -Kylaeria

  5. #65

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    Hey Guys!

    Thanks for posting your feedback! I know exactly where you're coming from, and I think by addressing this now it will save us a big headache in the future, and I think I know what the problem is. First off I'd like to say "THANK YOU" to all our wonderful players! We have the potential for a really fabulous team here, and I'm excited to "grow" as a character with you all !

    Now, this was our first week, so everything was a bit touch and go - seeing what works, what doesn't, and what needs improvement.

    I think the source of "zerg" atmosphere comes from our Meeting Schedule. The original intention behind having 4 meetings a week was that everyone who was interested - regardless of real life time constraints - would be able to participate in a role-playing static group. The meetings were intended to be a "simultaneous" advancement of our story, where the same quests were being run each meeting. That way players could maybe go on Tuesday one week, Saturday the next week, and still be in the same chronology as everyone else...

    ...but, what ended up happening this week was that instead of having 4 "simultaneous" meetings throughout the week, we had four consecutive meetings in the same week, and the chronology advanced very quickly. The majority of our active members attended every meeting, so it was in the best interest of everyone present to advance the story.

    Unfortunately, this method isn't sustainable, as we're going to wind up all over the place, and we are all clearly not on the same page. I think there's a lot of excitement among our members, and the players who have the time and resources to devote to the group are ending up online more than others.

    This isn't a bad thing!

    As I said, this was our first week, so we're still learning what will work and what won't (or at least I am, this is definitely a learning experience for me, I've never done something like this before ).

    Here is what I propose:

    - We cut down our Static Group meeting times to only once or twice a week, and turn one of the meeting times (like Saturday) into a Free Agent day. That way, we can have our Static Hero characters reserved for certain times, and put the leftover energy & zeal into our Free Agent alts.

    OR

    - We turn 2 of our meeting times into "Free Agent" meetings. So we'd have 2 meetings a week for the Static Group, and 2 meetings a week for the Free Agents. Static Group meetings would FULL role-play, at a leisurely place & Free Agent meetings would be role-play "light," at a faster pace.



    What do you guys think?
    I prefer not to split the group up but we need to find a solution that works for everyone.

    For now the weekly leveling guide is put on HOLD.
    Last edited by HalfOrcBeautyQueen; 11-14-2010 at 11:52 PM.

  6. #66
    Community Member Martdon's Avatar
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    I have been having problems with my CPU this week, so I haven't been able to really level much. (Halfway through 3 only :S) So I am going to have to say I will be sitting out until it gets resolved. I should be getting a new one later this week..... I hope. So if someone wants to be Wiz in group 1, I will try to find a new group, when I can stay logged on for more then 20 minutes.
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  7. #67
    Community Member jennick52's Avatar
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    You guys still looking for more players, because I am very interested? Can't look up the guild website at work due to barracuda web filter, so not sure what all is left for static and free agent spots.

  8. #68
    Community Member Martdon's Avatar
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    Free Agents are open to anything. The static group's needs are in the first post.
    (2) Fighters
    (2) Paladins
    (1) Bard
    (1) Ranger
    (1) Sorcerer
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  9. #69
    Community Member jennick52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martdon View Post
    Free Agents are open to anything. The static group's needs are in the first post.
    (2) Fighters
    (2) Paladins
    (1) Bard
    (1) Ranger
    (1) Sorcerer
    Wow, not sure how I missed that, but thanks. Due to my work schedule, 12hr night shift with rotating days, I would be able to make 1 or 2 meetings a week, which as I saw isn't a problem. I have this monday and tuesday off, so I could roll a character when I get home. If its possible, and you have the space, I was thinking a halfling fighter with the crybaby character trait. Let me know if it is possible.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.

  10. #70
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfOrcBeautyQueen View Post
    Hey Guys!

    Here is what I propose:

    - We cut down our Static Group meeting times to only once or twice a week, and turn one of the meeting times (like Saturday) into a Free Agent day. That way, we can have our Static Hero characters reserved for certain times, and put the leftover energy & zeal into our Free Agent alts.

    OR

    - We turn 2 of our meeting times into "Free Agent" meetings. So we'd have 2 meetings a week for the Static Group, and 2 meetings a week for the Free Agents. Static Group meetings would FULL role-play, at a leisurely place & Free Agent meetings would be role-play "light," at a faster pace.



    What do you guys think?

    I like the second option.


    I think having the static group meetings once or twice a week is good - depending on schedules. That way if someone misses a meeting, the static group won't get that far ahead of them. This way we can also have a stricter quest progression where everyone stays on the same story line.

    I also think having open free agent meeting times is also a good idea so people have to opportunity at some light role-play, but the freedom to run whichever quests they want to run.
    Last edited by Postumus; 11-15-2010 at 01:36 AM.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I like the second option.


    I think having the static group meetings once or twice a week is good - depending on schedules. That way if someone misses a meeting, the static group won't get that far ahead of them. This way we can also have a stricter quest progression where everyone stays on the same story line.

    I also think having open free agent meeting times is also a good idea so people have to opportunity at some light role-play, but the freedom to run whichever quests they want to run.
    Just based off the responses here, I would say that Tuesday & Sunday should be meetings for the Static Group and Thursday & Saturday should be for the Free Agents. Not sure if that works for everyone or not, and it's fine if that changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by jennick52 View Post
    Wow, not sure how I missed that, but thanks. Due to my work schedule, 12hr night shift with rotating days, I would be able to make 1 or 2 meetings a week, which as I saw isn't a problem. I have this monday and tuesday off, so I could roll a character when I get home. If its possible, and you have the space, I was thinking a halfling fighter with the crybaby character trait. Let me know if it is possible.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    Hi Jennick! As you can see we're currently in the process of re-working our schedule, but if you'd like you can still roll up your Hero and jump right into the fray . A halfling fighter sounds good to me!

  12. #72
    Community Member Arkadios's Avatar
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    I agree with postumus much to much zerging i tyred to slow it down last week, got caught up healing everyone this week (sorry) main insentive behind it (i hope) is we're doing harbour quests and well almost everyone knows them. Still it isn't an excuse, as a group leader on sunday you are ment to follow me(also my cleric likes to take charge :P) i felt a certain warforged who was ahead of anyone else levelwise was leading the zergfest, and i'll certainly try harder to slow the group down.

    I agree with option two BQ seems to be a good option and best group split.

  13. #73
    Community Member dragons1ayer74's Avatar
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    ^^^ I thought we where a little heavy on halflings.

    I will be mostly attending Tuesday evenings other times will be playing a bit of catch-up. RP has been RP-lite from the beginning from my experience, but has been fun. I have been involved in other groups where it has been possible too RP-heavy or groups that do not adventure at all and sit around entire sessions in taverns role-playing. There needs to be some type of balance struck, IMO a lot of extra role-play can be done out of session via blogs and message boards, for those that want that extra level of detail. The group times should be focused on adventuring; not saying that we need to zerg through quests nor explore every nook and cranny and crawl through at a snail pace but follow along at the pace the leader sets and try and stay in character and role-play.

    Lastly I feel that continuing quests on elite is going to start to get annoying from a RP perspective, I have already seen un-twinked trap masters (characters that are supposed to be very good at traps) blow up boxes, others dies in traps and spell point resources being spent far before shrines.

  14. #74
    Community Member Nuralanya's Avatar
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    First off, I just want to make it clear that I don't think it's 'bad' that some people are enjoying this so much that they're out-levelling others. There's nothing wrong with having fun, and I like the amount of enthusiasm this group has generated.

    The problem, as far as I see it, is that the concept of the group was to run quests together and level together so that everyone was on the same page and could easily join any other group session if they wished. This is the part that's falling by the wayside, along with the roleplaying opportunities to stop and smell the roses.

    I've been part of both types of RP group - the kind that will just sit in the tavern for hours chatting, and the kind that goes out and runs quests (and even raids) in character. Both can be a lot of fun, but some people don't like to just sit around - they want to be doing something. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    I'm not sure that I want to see the static meetings cut down, because some people could only make one day a week and their day may be one that we lose. Perhaps when more people have had a chance to comment, we'll be able to tell if two days will work for the majority or if we need to keep all four.

    What I personally would like to see happen, is for the people who want to play a static Hero to agree to only play that character once per week. If they miss their regular day they could join another, but by only playing their 'main hero' once per week they'll keep on track with everyone else. If you have the time and enthusiasm to play more then that's awesome, but make an alt and level them as fast as you like. F2P players who have limited character slots can easily create another account if you can't/don't want to buy more slots. Then we'll have a pool of free agents we can call on if more are needed to fill a group.

    As for difficulty - yeah, Korthos is pretty easy and the quests get much more difficult as you progress. Even a twinked character can have trouble with Sharn Syndicate on elite at level. (I know this from experience... you need a good group to get through Bookbinders in particular.) Dying in traps and so on is maybe not such a big deal in regular groups, but having to RP many deaths or failures gets tiresome. Especially if your character is supposed to be good at what they do, and their in-game experience doesn't match up to their in-character skills.

    Since (to my mind) the group should be more about the RP than the XP, I'd like to see people worrying less about maximising their xp gain, and more about taking their time and having the opportunity to remain in-character without the threat of imminent death - unless the character is reckless by nature.

    I don't want to seem like a kill-joy, but I joined the group for the RP experience and I can see that there might be less of that than I was hoping for. So I'm just trying to make a few suggestions that may help, and if that means splitting into an RP-lite and an RP-heavy group then maybe it's something to consider if it'll help keep everyone happy.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuralanya View Post
    What I personally would like to see happen, is for the people who want to play a static Hero to agree to only play that character once per week. If they miss their regular day they could join another, but by only playing their 'main hero' once per week they'll keep on track with everyone else. If you have the time and enthusiasm to play more then that's awesome, but make an alt and level them as fast as you like. F2P players who have limited character slots can easily create another account if you can't/don't want to buy more slots. Then we'll have a pool of free agents we can call on if more are needed to fill a group.
    I like this. You said it better than I could

    Perhaps from here on out we should just stick to playing our Static Heroes only once per week (at only one meeting), and then use the extra time for our Free Agent alts. I think that will end up being a win-win for everyone involved. And, if needed, people could have 2 static heroes so they're always involved in the story (but that is by NO means necessary). I know that I might make a static hero for each meeting I attend.


    Quote Originally Posted by dragons1ayer74 View Post
    ^^^ I thought we where a little heavy on halflings.
    We are a little halfing-heavy, but I like the idea of having a static halfling fighter AND a static halfling barbarian. It makes me smile-in-real-life.
    Last edited by HalfOrcBeautyQueen; 11-15-2010 at 12:28 PM.

  16. #76
    Community Member Thoom's Avatar
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    I do believe I like the once a week static hero as well. Feyjhan was chasing Dydic all week, and lookie here, we are both lvl 5 already (I think Dydic could be 20 by now). @.@

    For this one Tuesday only, Catricia will show up and continue the search for Feyjhan (because she is still lvl 4).

    I may have to make a 3rd for Sundays! Or Cat will only show on Sunday while I have a random for possible Thur and Sat since those are mornings and that is a big random for me.

  17. #77
    Community Member Martdon's Avatar
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    Something else I think could be done. Rather than just filling up the groups with whoever comes first, perhaps we should get four-five groups going, based on play time/style. Each group would still only be allowed one of each class, but at first we could have a few groups with only 4-8 players, until more people better fitted into the group join. Whether it be the nocturnal N-America members playing with people from Australia, or those who want to have a 'light' RP play, and a group for those who want heavy RP play.

    Just a thought.
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  18. #78

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    I think we are all in consensus that the new guideline here on out will be to only bring your static hero(es) to one meeting per week - but you're still free to play your Free Agent/Guild alts as often as you like and you're free to have a "static alt" so you can come to more than one meeting per week.

    From here on out Galbinus the Paladin will be taking Cabiria's place in the Static Group, and Cabiria will technically be a "free agent." I also have a few alts floating around the Guild (a Bard and a Fighter) to fill certain needs as they arise.

    I'd also like to tell everyone now that on Friday I have family coming in from waaay out of town, so most of my weekend will be devoted to spending time with them. As such, I will be unable to host Saturday's meeting. I should be able to make Sunday's meeting though.

    Would someone be able to fill in for me as Group Leader this Saturday? The time is 9am EST to 12pm EST.

    Thanks guys!

  19. #79
    Community Member Thoom's Avatar
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    Talking

    Between all of us officers, I'm sure Saturday will be handled for ya.

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  20. #80
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragons1ayer74 View Post
    There needs to be some type of balance struck, IMO a lot of extra role-play can be done out of session via blogs and message boards, for those that want that extra level of detail. The group times should be focused on adventuring; not saying that we need to zerg through quests nor explore every nook and cranny and crawl through at a snail pace but follow along at the pace the leader sets and try and stay in character and role-play.

    I think we'll find the balance. I agree with you that extra role play via blogs and boards is a good option for those of us that really want to develop our charactgers, and yet I still want to spend at least 75% of my time role playing in game. Role playing at the tavern before and after quests is fine, and I think it is just as important to continue role playing during a quest.


    I want to play at a slower pace and explore every nook and cranny I can - just like I would in PnP. For me, completing the quest is secondary, completing it in character and with the group is the primary goal. If I'm typing, that means I'm not moving, so role play will slow down the dungeon exploration. I suppose one way to speed that up is if we all used voice, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable enough doing that yet (more to do with my environment in RL than DDO).


    Perhaps splitting the static groups into a faster paced group and a slower one is a solution? Or perhaps we'll eventually settle on a happy medium


    Quote Originally Posted by dragons1ayer74 View Post
    Lastly I feel that continuing quests on elite is going to start to get annoying from a RP perspective, I have already seen un-twinked trap masters (characters that are supposed to be very good at traps) blow up boxes, others dies in traps and spell point resources being spent far before shrines.

    Here I disagree. After playing last week, I feel even more strongly than before that we should NEVER run a quest at level as a group. A full group of six should always be playing at least one-two levels higher than the average level of the party, and a short-manned group should be playing at least one level higher.


    I believe the quests on normal are too easy, even solo, for most of our players. For a well balanced group of five or six, normal may as well be casual. Only elite seems to offer a sufficient challenge. That is the reason perma-death groups like Mortal Voyage don't play anything at level; they always play at least one level higher than the average level of the party.



    But beating bosses, detecting doors, and disabling traps shouldn't be automatic anyway. Elite keeps the encounters and trap levels high, it forces people to really focus on the stats and skills they want to be good at.


    Yes that means it is harder to detect traps, and when Dallog blows it or springs yet another trap accidentally, no one is more frustrated than I am. That said, this has also had a positive impact on role play. It's almost become a running joke that the 'trap expert' is better at setting them off than finding them.


    And yes it means we may wipe, or have only a few escape the occasional encounter, but that makes finally completing the quest all the better.


    Finally, I don't want to run quests more than once per character. I won't be repeating quests to get more xps, or farm loot and favor. So completing on elite means there is no reason to go back, we've got max favor possible, and we completed it at the most challenging level which should be a sense of accomplishment.

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