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  1. #1
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Default Extreme Permadeath Static

    A team from Mortal Voyage started a static permadeath group with extreme rules. Our goal is to form a well balanced group of characters and see how far we can go. We picked players who believe they can stay in the group long-term.

    In addition to our Mortal Voyage rules:
    -- No rest shrines
    -- No sharing anything outside of chest loot
    -- Favor reward restrictions, No house P&J buffs, No Free Agent vendor, No D ammo (not completely settled on what we will allow, but probably allow D quivers, Silver Flame discount cures and P trinket)
    -- Elite only until we can no longer progress

    It's a great group of players. We'll see how far we can get.
    Last edited by parvo; 11-02-2010 at 02:01 AM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Although we did not plan our builds extensively, we coordinated to ensure a well-rounded group. As a group, we are not as perfect, as say, one person designing six characters. However, it's more important for each individual to "own" their character and enjoy watching it grow. I believe we will ultimately get farther when everyone is having fun. In any case, our group is very well rounded. It's rare to have such a group in open PD guild play. We'll enjoy not only that advantage, but having the same quest completions, six characters opening most chests (for more sharing opportunities), well practiced tactics, etc...


    The Team
    Tipto http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/tipto/
    Artylosh http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/artylosh/
    Pomelo http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/pomelo/
    Clourthio http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/clourthio/
    Kazmodius http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/kazmodius/
    Niablarg http://my.ddo.com/character/orien/niablarg/

    We're playing on Orien with guild name Mortal Voyage Extreme Permadeath.
    Last edited by parvo; 03-13-2012 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Because we restarted and because I linked the wrong character
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  3. #3
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quests Completed by Larger Group
    Prior to March 12, 2012
    Every base level 5 quest and below on elite

    March 12, 2012
    A Small Problem, elite

    March 19, 2012
    Partycrashers, elite
    The Snitch, elite

    March 26, 2012
    Under The Big Top, elite

    April 2, 2012
    Delera's part I, II, III, elite

    April 9, 2012
    Thrall of the Necromancer, elite
    Valek's Mausoleum, elite
    Dead Predators, elite

    April 16, 2012
    Mirra's Sleepless Nights, elite
    Redwillow, elite
    Forgotten Caverns, elite
    Ruined Halls, elite
    Purge the Heretics, elite
    Caged Trolls, elite

    May 7, 2012
    Gladewatch Outpost Defense, elite
    Troglodytes Get, elite
    Old Grey Garl, elite
    Bounty Hunter, elite

    May 14, 2012
    Greymoon series, elite
    Last edited by parvo; 05-14-2012 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Edited because of restart
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  4. #4
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Community Member ddobard1's Avatar
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    Very very interesting initiative! What's the name of your Party? Is it Larger Group?
    May the Community know the composition and some details about the Heroes?
    Do you intend to narrate your adventures in the Forum? (Unfortunatelly without spoilers.)
    When did you start?

  8. #8
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    I updated some of the posts above.
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  9. #9
    Community Member ddobard1's Avatar
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    Have you set the quests sequence, so it will possible to forecast the tough times?
    The Bard is a second line melee?
    The Fighter is one handed weapon, or two handed, or two weapon?
    Which level are you now?

  10. #10
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    What will be the determining factor of when "it becomes suicide" to run on elite only?
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #11
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What will be the determining factor of when "it becomes suicide" to run on elite only?
    The determining factor will be when it becomes suicide to progress on elite. Obviously, it's subjective with quite a few dynamic variables. I've not calculated XP at level so I don't know what level we'll be after completing quests of a certain level. Let's just take some examples. Let's say we complete all quests below base level eight (8+2 for elite = 10) and our characters are level ten. On elite, we'd be looking at level eleven quests (9+2 for elite = 11). For a balanced group with diverse array of tactics available and familiar styles, we might consider that "not suicide". However, if we complete the same quests and our characters are still level seven, we probably consider that "suicide".

    At first, our characters are starting off below the level of quests. At some point, probably when we start hitting low level series, we may catch up and be even, perhaps even blue-lining so we can complete all the quests at level before moving on. Later, at mid range, when choices get thin, we might fall behind again.

    We have not talked about whether or not we will skip any quests along the way. To stay alive, it might be prudent to do so. On the other side of the coin, it might be more fun and perhaps valuable to do every quest. In any case, it will be several weeks before we reach anything challenging enough to worry about it. The first few weeks will be gaining a foothold, getting used to no shrines, no sharing etc.

    So, to be honest, we don't know. While the group is enthusiastic about elite only, we'll just have to see how it goes. This group is going to have a lot of fun. If we survive, the group could be together a long time, so we don't want to blindly charge into suicide missions. It's a balance of extreme conditions vs an extrodinary group of players and characters.

    I should also mention, that none of us plays extensive non-PD. I don't think any have level twenty characters, (maybe Losh and Lourth? I'll ask), and some may not have broken ten yet. I'm certain we'll learn along the way.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    The determining factor will be when it becomes suicide to progress on elite. Obviously, it's subjective with quite a few dynamic variables. I've not calculated XP at level so I don't know what level we'll be after completing quests of a certain level. Let's just take some examples. Let's say we complete all quests below base level eight (8+2 for elite = 10) and our characters are level ten. On elite, we'd be looking at level eleven quests (9+2 for elite = 11). For a balanced group with diverse array of tactics available and familiar styles, we might consider that "not suicide". However, if we complete the same quests and our characters are still level seven, we probably consider that "suicide". .
    The reason I ask this type of question is because it becomes a real hard question to answer when using a ruleset that requires following numeric quest guidelines as an absolute.

    In PnP DnD, the rule is to add the levels of the characters and divide by the number of players to determine average party level. In DDO, they bust you out the minute you have 1 higher level person in the group, which goes against PnP. A party of 5 level 7s and 1 level 9 will get an xp penalty for the level 9 in DDO, but in PnP, 7x5 = 35 + 9 = 44 / 6 = 7.333~ party level (they arent even 8 let alone 9). In PnP, if I started tossing CR9 encounters at the 7.3 group, I would likely wipe them out before 4 encounters were run. If I hit them with a few CR7s and a CR8 they will likely be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by parvo View Post
    At first, our characters are starting off below the level of quests. At some point, probably when we start hitting low level series, we may catch up and be even, perhaps even blue-lining so we can complete all the quests at level before moving on. Later, at mid range, when choices get thin, we might fall behind again.

    We have not talked about whether or not we will skip any quests along the way. To stay alive, it might be prudent to do so. On the other side of the coin, it might be more fun and perhaps valuable to do every quest. In any case, it will be several weeks before we reach anything challenging enough to worry about it. The first few weeks will be gaining a foothold, getting used to no shrines, no sharing etc.

    So, to be honest, we don't know. While the group is enthusiastic about elite only, we'll just have to see how it goes. This group is going to have a lot of fun. If we survive, the group could be together a long time, so we don't want to blindly charge into suicide missions. It's a balance of extreme conditions vs an extrodinary group of players and characters.

    I should also mention, that none of us plays extensive non-PD. I don't think any have level twenty characters, (maybe Losh and Lourth? I'll ask), and some may not have broken ten yet. I'm certain we'll learn along the way.
    Using what you stated as the indicator, you would likely never run into an issue with not having enough xp to gain until well into the teens. The real bottle neck in xp occurs in the upper / mid teens. This of course implies running all content possible at level before progressing, not ignoring the less popular content, and not metaselecting past certain content due to higher difficulty - which is also another issue I see when using numerical guidelines as an absolute, but thats another subject entirely. This is something PDers are already used to. I have eaten my 1750 favor tomes on PD toons many levels lower than I would have gotten them on a non PD toon.
    Last edited by Chai; 11-02-2010 at 11:52 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #13
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    I think the turning point is when quest runs start taking more consumable resources than they provide. "Too hard" probably follows not long after.
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  14. #14
    Community Member Gnorbert's Avatar
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    Well, when it comes down to it, "Fun" is not defined in terms of advancement or longevity. This sounds like it will be a fun group (well, starting at level when you start seeing a challenge that is)

    Enjoy!
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  15. #15
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowbie View Post
    I think the turning point is when quest runs start taking more consumable resources than they provide. "Too hard" probably follows not long after.
    We'll probably take on a couple shorter quests between marathons.

    Another note here...Turbine continues to make the game easier without shrines. It seems that every character update comes with new regenerating abilities. If it continues, shrines may become obsolete anyway. Turbine has commented several times that they weren't entirely happy with the rest mechanic and I think they are moving away from it.
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  16. #16
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorbert View Post
    Well, when it comes down to it, "Fun" is not defined in terms of advancement or longevity. This sounds like it will be a fun group (well, starting at level when you start seeing a challenge that is)

    Enjoy!
    Indeed. To be honest, I'm spoiling myself. I've long wanted to join or put together a static group, but I've had a lot of fun in open PD, growing, teaching and learning in Sublime and MV. For me, this is essentially a gamers dream within a gamers dream...another level.
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  17. #17
    Community Member ddobard1's Avatar
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    The Party is balanced, and the Heroes look self-sufficient. In the end I think the Bard can make the difference to the success of the Party. It's the begining yet, but when the Party hits quests like The Swiped Signet and Proof is in the Poison the Community can evaluate better based on the reports of the Party.
    Waiting for the next chapters.

  18. #18
    Community Member Gnorbert's Avatar
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    How are you planning to handle the event of a death of one character when the party passes level 5? Will it be a full party reroll to help catch the dead back up? Will you continue on as a group of 5? Will this basically turn into a new form of "Survivor"?

    Just curious because I see this as the pitfall for all static PD groups.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorbert View Post
    How are you planning to handle the event of a death of one character when the party passes level 5? Will it be a full party reroll to help catch the dead back up? Will you continue on as a group of 5? Will this basically turn into a new form of "Survivor"?

    Just curious because I see this as the pitfall for all static PD groups.

    I'm curious about that as well. In all the statics I have been in the were still "in" my guild, so if a toon died, that player could bring in one of their other toons. But for this static they created a new guild, on a different server so clearly that will not be an option.
    Member of The Sublime Permadeath Guild on Thelanis.
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  20. #20
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorbert View Post
    How are you planning to handle the event of a death of one character when the party passes level 5? Will it be a full party reroll to help catch the dead back up? Will you continue on as a group of 5? Will this basically turn into a new form of "Survivor"?

    Just curious because I see this as the pitfall for all static PD groups.
    While it's certainly possible, I don't expect we'll see any losses that early. Haven't given it any thought.
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