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  1. #21
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    +5 Greensteel Greataxe (3d6, 20/x3) With Holy, +2d6 vs. Evil, Acid Burst, +1d6 acid, +1d10/2d10/3d10 on crit - Stoneskin (2/day), Acid Blast (1d10 * (critical multiplier -1) on Critical, + 4d6 on 20) - Transmuting, Keen/Impact, Slicing (+1d4 Bleed damage), +8 hardness, +80 durability

    # Epic Antique Greataxe - (Weapon) - +6 Great Axe (Base dmg 2d12, 20/x3), Force Burst (1d6 Force +2d10 Force on a Crit), Metalline, Empty Red Augment Slot, Empty Colorless Augment Slot

    Lets make two quick assumptions. The wielder of this already has IC:Slashing, and Augments the Red Slot of the Antique GA with Good. Enemy : Any demon, devil, tiefling, to include the devil raid bosses.

    Base Damage: 3d6+5 is less than 2d12+6. Okay, AG seems better than GS here.

    Additional Damage: Holy and Slicing on the GS, as Acid will be a wall of 0s. So 2d6+1d4. AG Offers 1d6, with a 10% chance of2d10 additional damage. While there's plenty of acid/immune resistant mobs in the game, almost everything outside the realm of certain constructs takes full force damage.

    Crits : Same Crit Range and Multiplier. The larger base damage of the AG would make its crits hit harder.

    DR Busting : Both would be equal in this aspect, as well. All metal types, good descriptor. GS also has Evil for the purposes of bypassing DR, but I highly doubt anyone's really *that* eager to go do Running with the Devils 100 times to make this worthwhile of mention.


    So... those are my thoughts specifically on "Min II GS or AG is better." By the time you're using either, I'd rather be doing phenomenal first number damage than worrying about numbers to the right of that.

    I still maintain the opinion I voiced earlier in this thread - get your Lit II made first, go for the Antique Greataxe AND the SoS. Min II should probably still happen eventually, since trolls in Epic will give you tasty purple numbers.

  2. #22
    Community Member P3tunion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    +5 Greensteel Greataxe (3d6, 20/x3) With Holy, +2d6 vs. Evil, Acid Burst, +1d6 acid, +1d10/2d10/3d10 on crit - Stoneskin (2/day), Acid Blast (1d10 * (critical multiplier -1) on Critical, + 4d6 on 20) - Transmuting, Keen/Impact, Slicing (+1d4 Bleed damage), +8 hardness, +80 durability

    # Epic Antique Greataxe - (Weapon) - +6 Great Axe (Base dmg 2d12, 20/x3), Force Burst (1d6 Force +2d10 Force on a Crit), Metalline, Empty Red Augment Slot, Empty Colorless Augment Slot

    Lets make two quick assumptions. The wielder of this already has IC:Slashing, and Augments the Red Slot of the Antique GA with Good. Enemy : Any demon, devil, tiefling, to include the devil raid bosses.
    Granted. Very granted even.

    But the discussion was "better?" not "better against evil outsiders?". But yeah I don't wanna press the point. It's up to playstyle imo. Saving larges or saving a little carnival grinding. It's more or less the same in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    I still maintain the opinion I voiced earlier in this thread - get your Lit II made first, go for the Antique Greataxe AND the SoS. Min II should probably still happen eventually, since trolls in Epic will give you tasty purple numbers.
    Agree with this too. I made a minII first, but when I compare to my lightningII on my pally I regret that.

    And yeah you can get both in the end. No reason not to plan ahead since you're eventually gonna get there, right?


    Aliann (Fighter12/Barbarian6/Rogue2) - Alavann (Rogue20) - Alaminum (Sorcerer18) - Alidrone (Barbarian/Fighter18/2)

  3. #23
    Community Member Logicman69's Avatar
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    I would still make the MinII Axe as well, just on the fact that when I TR, I can use it at level 12. The Epic Antique Greataxe cannot be used till level 20... that's 8 levels of awsomeness for the GS. Once you hit 20, the Antique comes out and things die that much quicker.
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  4. #24
    Community Member P3tunion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman69 View Post
    I would still make the MinII Axe as well, just on the fact that when I TR, I can use it at level 12. The Epic Antique Greataxe cannot be used till level 20... that's 8 levels of awsomeness for the GS. Once you hit 20, the Antique comes out and things die that much quicker.
    That's where I think you should make a lightningII instead since it's gonna be much higher DPS against the stuff you face at that level. You don't need a DR breaker at level 12.


    Aliann (Fighter12/Barbarian6/Rogue2) - Alavann (Rogue20) - Alaminum (Sorcerer18) - Alidrone (Barbarian/Fighter18/2)

  5. #25
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman69 View Post
    I would still make the MinII Axe as well, just on the fact that when I TR, I can use it at level 12. The Epic Antique Greataxe cannot be used till level 20... that's 8 levels of awsomeness for the GS. Once you hit 20, the Antique comes out and things die that much quicker.
    I really liked the suggestion that I saw on another thread.

    Make a MinII Maul.

    You're going to have Improved Crit - Slashing, so the Keen part isn't going to matter on a MinII Greataxe.

    A MinII Maul does the same damage vs. all the bosses as a MinII Greataxe and it has the added benefit of giving you a Skeleton beater as well. The MinII Maul effectively is a MinII Greataxe*, with a little extra versatility.

    *Dwarves not included.

  6. #26
    Community Member P3tunion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    A MinII Maul does the same damage vs. all the bosses as a MinII Greataxe...

    MinII maul = 2d8
    MinII GA = 3d6

    So no it doesn't

    EDIT: Granted the difference isn't big, but the only real reason making a Maul is to save larges for two GS items...imo anyway
    Last edited by P3tunion; 10-14-2010 at 09:18 AM.


    Aliann (Fighter12/Barbarian6/Rogue2) - Alavann (Rogue20) - Alaminum (Sorcerer18) - Alidrone (Barbarian/Fighter18/2)

  7. #27
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P3tunion View Post
    MinII maul = 2d8
    MinII GA = 3d6

    So no it doesn't

    EDIT: Granted the difference isn't big, but the only real reason making a Maul is to save larges for two GS items...imo anyway
    You are correct that a Greataxe does an average of 1.5 extra damage per hit. 24 large incredients and a second backpack slot is a pretty big price for that extra damage, though, so the ingredient savings is pretty significant for me, at least.

  8. #28
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    +5 Greensteel Greataxe (3d6, 20/x3) With Holy, +2d6 vs. Evil, Acid Burst, +1d6 acid, +1d10/2d10/3d10 on crit - Stoneskin (2/day), Acid Blast (1d10 * (critical multiplier -1) on Critical, + 4d6 on 20) - Transmuting, Keen/Impact, Slicing (+1d4 Bleed damage), +8 hardness, +80 durability

    # Epic Antique Greataxe - (Weapon) - +6 Great Axe (Base dmg 2d12, 20/x3), Force Burst (1d6 Force +2d10 Force on a Crit), Metalline, Empty Red Augment Slot, Empty Colorless Augment Slot

    Lets make two quick assumptions. The wielder of this already has IC:Slashing, and Augments the Red Slot of the Antique GA with Good. Enemy : Any demon, devil, tiefling, to include the devil raid bosses.

    Base Damage: 3d6+5 is less than 2d12+6. Okay, AG seems better than GS here.

    Additional Damage: Holy and Slicing on the GS, as Acid will be a wall of 0s. So 2d6+1d4. AG Offers 1d6, with a 10% chance of2d10 additional damage. While there's plenty of acid/immune resistant mobs in the game, almost everything outside the realm of certain constructs takes full force damage.

    Crits : Same Crit Range and Multiplier. The larger base damage of the AG would make its crits hit harder.

    DR Busting : Both would be equal in this aspect, as well. All metal types, good descriptor. GS also has Evil for the purposes of bypassing DR, but I highly doubt anyone's really *that* eager to go do Running with the Devils 100 times to make this worthwhile of mention.


    So... those are my thoughts specifically on "Min II GS or AG is better." By the time you're using either, I'd rather be doing phenomenal first number damage than worrying about numbers to the right of that.

    I still maintain the opinion I voiced earlier in this thread - get your Lit II made first, go for the Antique Greataxe AND the SoS. Min II should probably still happen eventually, since trolls in Epic will give you tasty purple numbers.
    Once again no posted calculations so this is all just preferences. As I stated before no reason to run the carnival series with the current gear listed so why waste time there just like the sentenial series was only for monks previously. Now the red fens have some real loot so run the heck out of those.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    I really liked the suggestion that I saw on another thread.

    Make a MinII Maul.

    You're going to have Improved Crit - Slashing, so the Keen part isn't going to matter on a MinII Greataxe.

    A MinII Maul does the same damage vs. all the bosses as a MinII Greataxe and it has the added benefit of giving you a Skeleton beater as well. The MinII Maul effectively is a MinII Greataxe*, with a little extra versatility.

    *Dwarves not included.




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  10. #30
    Community Member Hokonoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffhanna View Post
    That is a pretty good reason tho.

    Plus, Kehgeld swears the AGA is better and I generally believe him.
    AGA does 1 higher base dmg per hit than min 2, but i hardly see how that can equate to more dps when it only has force burst on it and min 2 has holy + slicing which both effect devil bosses.

    i mean AGA is 2d12 +6 with force burst (1d6 + 2d10 on crit)
    whereas min2 is 3d6 +5 with holy (2d6) and slicing (1d6), and if you put good burst on it instead the difference really shows on crits for say a falchion.

    edit: ps i use a min 2 maul as it is sexy and i perfer blunts

    and yes i have enough larges to make axe or whatever as i have trip pos falchion, trip neg falchion, and lit 2 falchion as well as 2 min 2 khopeshes on the same character

  11. #31
    Community Member Taimasan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokonoso View Post
    and i perfer blunts
    Blunts are awesome.
    /popcorn
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  12. #32
    Community Member Wraith_Sarevok's Avatar
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    Allow me to clarify for all of you exactly which two-handed weapons are the best, good, terrible, or a waste of your time.

    1.) First off, in any generic fight in the entire game, Epic Sword of Shadows is totally superior to Epic Antique Greataxe. It is currently the most powerful weapon in the entire game. This is a fact. Don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you otherwise, ever. They are wrong. The amount of damage it is capable of dishing out through its sick critical range and highest base damage + enhancement in the game will always outstrip other two-handers, even the best of Greensteel.


    2.) Secondly, Min II Greensteel Greataxe is superior to Epic Antique Greataxe. This is also a fact. Some people still don't understand why and they foolishly think Epic Antique is actually better. A 4th grade elementary math student can figure this out. But I will make it simple by listing the advantages in order of priority:


    - Min II deals out way more damage against generic targets than Epic Antique Greataxe due to Holy + Slicing + Acid + Acid Burst + Acid Blast. Epic Antique Greataxe loses by somewhat.

    - Min II, against pit fiends, still deals either more or equivalent damage to Epic Antique Greataxe (by about +1 DPS). Holy + Slicing actually makes up for the 7 points of increased base damage, Force, AND Force Burst. Run the numbers if you don't believe it. Epic Antique Greataxe equates and fails to pull ahead.

    - Min II stops troll regeneration and deals 50% more acid damage (4 components) to trolls. Against epic trolls, this advantage can be critical. Epic Antique Greataxe offers nothing and loses badly in terms of raw damage.

    - Min II breaks Evil and Evil + Cold Iron for the Running With the Devils quest. Epic Antique Greataxe does not. Player suffers a damage loss due to DR, especially on Elite.

    - Min II, being a Greensteel, can be used as early as level 12, giving the player an EXTREME damage boost over non-TRs during mid-level quests. Epic Antique Greataxe is locked away at min lvl 20.

    - Min II is more resistant to wear due to Mineral, increasing both Hardness and durability by a substantial amount. Epic Antique Greataxe will break long before Min II does and cost more in terms of repair bills.

    - Min II is easier to make than Epic Antique Greataxe. Now this is debatable. Considering, one has a 50% chance to appear as an end chain reward and requires scroll, shard, and seal to make plus red augment crystal. The other requires base green steel blueprint, small imbue, medium imbue, and a double shard to forge. However, consider this: Farming the vale quests + Phase 1-4 of the Shroud and phase 5 when ransacked gives out ALOT more ingredients than running 1-4 epic quests per day. In addition, multiple characters can be used for these runs and the greensteel ingredients can all be traded as opposed to just the scroll. When you look at it in the long run, you will end up with Min II Greataxe between level 12-20 plus dozens of extra ingredients in about 2 straight weeks worth of playing, whereas you have to hit level 20 and guess at how long it will take you to get lucky and craft the Epic Antique Greataxe. Thus, Min II ends up being much easier, less time consuming, and more rewarding to make.


    3.) Finally, someone mentioned blunts? All blunts currently deal less base damage than their slashing counterparts. In fact you lose out on the ESoS by going blunts, which is a huge hit to your DPS. One of the only two blunts worth using is Triple Positive Greensteel Maul. Rez clickie and doubles as a skeleton smasher. It outdamages the crappy Epic Hammer of Life anyday due to Holy + Good Burst + Good Blast. I would never take a second look at that weapon, especially considering how useless Heal and Repair skills are.

    The other is Shining Devastation, the ideal Ooze and Clay Golem smasher. It's immune to rust and has a blunt head to avoid splitting oozes. It actually outdamages a Min II Maul in the case of clay golems because the Acid components of Min II Maul HEAL clay golems. It heals them so much that the weapon's DPS actually falls behind Shining Devastation. Not to mention it is much more costly and time-consuming to make. Run Abbot instead, you'll thank yourself later for saving all those large ingredients.


    PS.

    I also honestly find Lit II to be a waste. Nothing is vulnerable to lightning, it costs a double shard, and the proc rate of Lightning Strike is abysmally low at about 2%. It gets outdamaged by Epic SoS in every case. While it does deal more damage than Min II, it eventually becomes obsolete whereas Min II does not.
    Last edited by Wraith_Sarevok; 10-19-2010 at 05:43 AM.

  13. #33

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    Min2 vs Antique

    1) Min2 is better for trolls because of the acid
    2) Some things are immune to holy for these the antique is better
    3) Alot more is immune or resistant to acid than force... for all of these antique is better
    4) Min2 takes 24 larges if you only have 1 toon thats a long time where antique you can get in 2 weeks no problem.

    Assuming none of the above I believe the answer was antique was about .2 damage per swing better. Don't have the link in front of me.

    So it depends on your mob. Also your class kensai or frenzy makes a difference. Twitcher or not twitcher makes a difference.

    The colorless slot is a nice bounes on the antique
    Last edited by FluffyCalico; 10-19-2010 at 06:02 AM.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by P3tunion View Post
    MinII maul = 2d8
    MinII GA = 3d6

    So no it doesn't

    EDIT: Granted the difference isn't big, but the only real reason making a Maul is to save larges for two GS items...imo anyway
    how is a minII maul cheaper on larges than a minII greataxe?
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  15. #35
    Community Member quityourjobs's Avatar
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    I also honestly find Lit II to be a waste. Nothing is vulnerable to lightning, it costs a double shard, and the proc rate of Lightning Strike is abysmally low at about 2%. It gets outdamaged by Epic SoS in every case. While it does deal more damage than Min II, it eventually becomes obsolete whereas Min II does not.
    I was with you until this. Lightning works not because of vulnerability, but not that much is resistant to it. Even at 2% it adds a (wildly unpredictable) average of 12 points of damage per swing. It outdoes the other options, except for ESOS which is clearly at the top of the pile.

    Making a Lit II is also far easier, though possibly slower, than crafting ESOS or Antique Greataxe, especially when you consider the 30 epic tokens needed to make the Antique into a DR breaker.

    And while, yes, you will probably retire it if you ever manage to make an ESOS, it's an excellent all-around weapon until you can spend the months grinding VON it takes to make the sword, assuming you ever luck into all the ingredients. The DR breaking from Min II is necessary in only a small number of situations, and can be easily covered for with a silver / good or good / metalline weapon.

  16. #36
    Community Member Thud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzschlag View Post
    how is a minII maul cheaper on larges than a minII greataxe?
    Large horn maybe?
    Groz, Almostthere, Medicant and Harvezzt. Argo RULES!

  17. #37
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thud View Post
    Large horn maybe?
    You just necro'd a 3 year old thread.

  18. #38
    Community Member Thud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    You just necro'd a 3 year old thread.
    Haha... I guess I should pay more attention. I could have answered the question 3 years ago too, after my buddy made a gs greatcrossbow. I wonder why no one else did...
    Groz, Almostthere, Medicant and Harvezzt. Argo RULES!

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