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  1. #41
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    communication is important, but often its the people who can speak english who cause a lot of problems, like they cant even follow basic instructions in their own first language. Dont kill the dogs, if you get dog aggro get it to the middle where it can be charmed. Dont stand right in front of the big dog, you might get bees. I remember we had one guy after we told group 1 million times dont kill the dogs what does he do? as soon as we go in starts killing dogs and keeps on killing them even though we are screaming at him to stop, most of us recall out hes still in there, he dies, then on voice chat asks in american accented english "hey guys where is the shrine"? Maybe he had voice disable till he died? but we where typing those instructions in as well.

  2. #42
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    "Yall come back now ye hear"!!!

  3. #43
    Community Member sweez's Avatar
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    I'm European (not British) and I want to steer well clear of people who can't properly express themselves in English, or follow simple instructions given out in plain English.
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  4. #44
    Community Member BattleCircle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    communication is important, but often its the people who can speak english who cause a lot of problems, like they cant even follow basic instructions in their own first language. Dont kill the dogs, if you get dog aggro get it to the middle where it can be charmed. Dont stand right in front of the big dog, you might get bees. I remember we had one guy after we told group 1 million times dont kill the dogs what does he do? as soon as we go in starts killing dogs and keeps on killing them even though we are screaming at him to stop, most of us recall out hes still in there, he dies, then on voice chat asks in american accented english "hey guys where is the shrine"? Maybe he had voice disable till he died? but we where typing those instructions in as well.
    There is a difference between not speaking or understanding a language, and simply not listening.

    I have been in groups where I couldn't understand a word that was said in chat. From French, to Italian, to Korean, to Portugese. I was able to contribute to the party and get completion simply because I payed attention to what the others were doing.

    So while I didn't speak the language of most of the party members, I was listening through their actions.

    But then I'm probably not the average player. Not elite by any means. I just pay attention to the parties actions and adjust my play to suit.

  5. #45
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BattleCircle View Post
    There is a difference between not speaking or understanding a language, and simply not listening.

    I have been in groups where I couldn't understand a word that was said in chat. From French, to Italian, to Korean, to Portugese. I was able to contribute to the party and get completion simply because I payed attention to what the others were doing.

    So while I didn't speak the language of most of the party members, I was listening through their actions.

    But then I'm probably not the average player. Not elite by any means. I just pay attention to the parties actions and adjust my play to suit.
    I could most likely join a group doing a quest i quest i knew well if they all spoke a different language and i didnt understand it. But maybe not so well if i joined a quest that i didnt know. Hound would of been interesting to me if i did it the first time without anyone I could understand to tell me what to do.

  6. #46
    Community Member Stormanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunfalach View Post
    If you really wanna universally enrage everyone, make them speak like Jar-Jar Binks.

    "Meesa hit big boss moy moy much! Messa berry berry happy if yousa heal meesa now!"
    You had to go there did ya? So tempting to hit ya with the infamous -1 just for mentioning the train wreck that was/is Jar Jar...I feel dirty now...I'm going to take a shower....*shiver*


    *Disclaimer* - No, I didn't hit him with neg rep and never had any intention to.

  7. #47
    Community Member Ranmaru2's Avatar
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    The only thing I can see to support the OP is that if he's found one particular way to explain this quest that involves idiomatic expressions from his culture that don't translate well to other languages, then he'll find it hard to communicate what he wants properly to them. While I wouldn't really join an lfm like that, I can still see what he wants that has been summed up by people in the thread, "To be able to communicate effectively with everyone in his party."

    I've been in every raid in this game with people who don't speak English or don't understand it well, and when you get that one person who suddenly gets everything after him when there was an assigned method, it tends to get hectic REALLLY REALLLLLLLY fast. At this point the rest of the party is at a disadvantage unless they know/figure out what language to use to communicate with the person. The last thing I want to do in a hound is have to load up a free translator (which will butcher the language anyway) just to go through 20 languages in order to say:

    "Whoever picked up the 3rd and 4th stone please give it to (Person's name here)"

    Especially when you don't have the time for it in that raid.

    Now the only real "uncomfortable" experience I ever had on DDO was doing a titan raid with DDO Korea wherein I only knew one person in the party who didn't speak english. The whole preraid and raid we spent sending tells to each other to communicate since we didn't want to interrupt them doing their thing and were mostly commenting on how we didn't understand a flippin thing they were saying. It makes someone nervous real fast when they find that their preferred method of communication (voice chat for instance in English) becomes inferior for attempting to get a quest done and you have to stretch your ears in order to discern words from people who don't speak english very well. I felt bad having to ask them 2-5x what they wanted me to do again, since asking them to type it out wouldn't really work when they couldn't spell well.
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  8. #48
    Community Member MsEricka's Avatar
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    What constantly amazes me is that typically, Americans can't understand people with accents from around the world, but others usually have no issue.

    I know of a few players who actually tone down their accent so they can be understood.

    As for non-english speaking users, I have played with many and even though they can't understand english, many of them know some written words in party chat and many of them what to do.

  9. #49
    Community Member WyntherKnight's Avatar
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    I agree that language shouldn't be an hindrance to having a party and the the guy who was LFM should have written it better.

    Does DDO come in other languages? (I don't know myself). If not, then the people from the other countries playing DDO is probably reading the text, tips, quests, etc. in English, and therefor have some knowledge about (at least) reading the English language. If so, then typing what you want to tell your party members might be a good option instead of using voice chat.

    Then I just had this thought.

    If the DnD world was real, would you, an human, who knows only common, party with an elf, a dwarf, a half-orc, or a halfling who doesn't know how to speak, read, or write common? :P

  10. #50
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunfalach View Post

    This is no different really than "be able to hear voice" LFMs.
    Well, its a little different- if there is LFM requiring language skills, its only your language level that matters.

    But I have noticed that most leaders of "be able to hear voice" LFMs had the cheapest, worst quality microphones, and didn't sacrificed a minute or two to configurate them, or voice chat options in DDO, resulting a lot of strange, sometimes funny, sometimes painful sounds :/

  11. #51
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormanne View Post
    You had to go there did ya? So tempting to hit ya with the infamous -1 just for mentioning the train wreck that was/is Jar Jar...I feel dirty now...I'm going to take a shower....*shiver*


    *Disclaimer* - No, I didn't hit him with neg rep and never had any intention to.
    Screenshot, or it didn't happened

  12. #52
    Community Member shdrex63's Avatar
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    Sadly at times the barrier isnt language, but the individual's own ignorance. Seen quite a few people who had the quest explained for them and they just did their own thing, which is die. Also I find certain americans harder to understand than an chinese or korean...

    Quote Originally Posted by WyntherKnight View Post
    ....Does DDO come in other languages? (I don't know myself).
    DDO is translated to the following languages: french and german. Turbine announced it will keep DDO supported for these 3 languages (english, french and german).
    "We will live and see."

  13. #53

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    First, let me just point it out to everyone here that there are other areas of the world that is not 1. United States of America, 2. North America (ie Canada), 3. Central America (by the way Central America is not a continent, ie Panama), 3. Europe (ie United Kingdom, Germany). There are also a large proportion of players from Oceania (ie Australia), Asia (ie China, I'm from Singapore which is not in China) and Africa (ie South Africa).

    Next, I feel that there is a need to clarify the term "European Union, EU". EU is a political and economic union of many European countries. While it comprises of most European countries, several notable countries such as Switzerland, Norway and Russia are not in the Union.

    This post is written and punctuated to show others that people from other parts of the world can also communicate well in other languages. Personally, I have been the target of grammar and spelling Nazi forum posters who try to discredit my posts. Can I read and write in English? Judge it for yourselves.

    Why am I writing all these? Answer: political correctness. Wearing the original poster's shoes, I can see that he started this thread trying to promote more social integration between American and European players. His/Her intentions are good but unforunately in trying to be politically correct and reducing discrimination, the original post loses sight of it. By this definition, the LFM is discriminatory towards citizens of the twenty-seven member states of the EU but it is not towards players from Asian, Oceania, etc?

    Now, in the LFM poster's shoes, I can empathise that he is trying to find a group that can communicate with him. I find it disturbing to have players feel it is okay to post a group to look for French or German speaking players. However, when someone posts a LFM for English speaking player, calls of discrimination starts?

    We should all take a step back sometimes and look at things from a more macroscopic view. Instead of interpreting the intentions of a person, let them interpret it themselves. Shouting discimination everytime a race, language or religion is thrown into the fray just shows the level of maturity some people have. Using the First Amendment (or any other constitutions with similar bills) to justify eveything just proves how much ignorance there can be in this world.

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  14. #54
    Community Member Dunfalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsEricka View Post
    What constantly amazes me is that typically, Americans can't understand people with accents from around the world, but others usually have no issue.

    I know of a few players who actually tone down their accent so they can be understood.
    We Americans don't even understand other Americans sometimes, when it comes to accents. A conversation between a Bostonian and someone from the mountain country of the Southeastern states can be a thing of high amusement for everyone but the two people trying to understand each other. With the differences in climate and distances involved in America, there are probably as many American accents as there are Western European ones. For that matter, I have trouble understanding some people that live less than 25 miles from me.

    In one way, it makes some sense, as the US is so much larger and more spread out in population than Europe that you folks encounter other accents much more in your day to day lives than we do and develop a need to differentiate them earlier in life. There are places, such as New York City, where many accents come together on a regular basis. But there are plenty of areas where people only occasionally encounter someone who talks different than they do and have less need to learn the skill of differentiating accents than other countries may.

  15. #55
    Community Member Dunfalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyntherKnight View Post
    Then I just had this thought.

    If the DnD world was real, would you, an human, who knows only common, party with an elf, a dwarf, a half-orc, or a halfling who doesn't know how to speak, read, or write common? :P
    Well, there is an unwritten law in most RPGs (except where a character or game element is built around an exception) that all PCs speak common. :> However, you do make an amusing point.

  16. #56
    Community Member Dunfalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormanne View Post
    You had to go there did ya? So tempting to hit ya with the infamous -1 just for mentioning the train wreck that was/is Jar Jar...I feel dirty now...I'm going to take a shower....*shiver*


    *Disclaimer* - No, I didn't hit him with neg rep and never had any intention to.
    Someone had to. :>

  17. #57
    Founder Oreg's Avatar
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    I have no problem with all English, or any other language for that matter, LFM's.
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  18. #58
    Community Member JDCrowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranticus View Post
    First, let me just point it out to everyone here that there are other areas of the world that is not 1. United States of America, 2. North America (ie Canada), 3. Central America (by the way Central America is not a continent, ie Panama), 3. Europe (ie United Kingdom, Germany). There are also a large proportion of players from Oceania (ie Australia), Asia (ie China, I'm from Singapore which is not in China) and Africa (ie South Africa).

    Next, I feel that there is a need to clarify the term "European Union, EU". EU is a political and economic union of many European countries. While it comprises of most European countries, several notable countries such as Switzerland, Norway and Russia are not in the Union.

    This post is written and punctuated to show others that people from other parts of the world can also communicate well in other languages. Personally, I have been the target of grammar and spelling Nazi forum posters who try to discredit my posts. Can I read and write in English? Judge it for yourselves.

    Why am I writing all these? Answer: political correctness. Wearing the original poster's shoes, I can see that he started this thread trying to promote more social integration between American and European players. His/Her intentions are good but unforunately in trying to be politically correct and reducing discrimination, the original post loses sight of it. By this definition, the LFM is discriminatory towards citizens of the twenty-seven member states of the EU but it is not towards players from Asian, Oceania, etc?

    Now, in the LFM poster's shoes, I can empathise that he is trying to find a group that can communicate with him. I find it disturbing to have players feel it is okay to post a group to look for French or German speaking players. However, when someone posts a LFM for English speaking player, calls of discrimination starts?

    We should all take a step back sometimes and look at things from a more macroscopic view. Instead of interpreting the intentions of a person, let them interpret it themselves. Shouting discimination everytime a race, language or religion is thrown into the fray just shows the level of maturity some people have. Using the First Amendment (or any other constitutions with similar bills) to justify eveything just proves how much ignorance there can be in this world.

    Breathe in... breathe out....

    Aranticus the yellow-skinned, slant-eyed, steak-eating bastard
    While I do appreciate, and understand, Aranticus' point here; I will state that the point here was not to limit this to EU only or just European players.
    I use the term loosly and in slight jest as we all know the accounts from DDO EU are being merged onto Ghallanda.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDCrowell View Post
    (and other international players)
    ??
    Even as subtle as that was, it was my intention of including players from across the world with that statement.

    Now, aside from all of that, Aranticus does make a good point here and so do others. I understand how important communication is for questing especially in a quest like Let Sleeping Dust Lie, however; when I initially saw this LFM I thought it was another arrogant American with no patience for accents or other cultures. I later found out I was wrong. That is my fault for assuming, and I know that.

    I guess living in Texas makes this a bit more of a sore subject to me. Just because someone doesn't speak English very well doesn't mean they don't understand or that they are stupid. It usually just means they are shy...usually. But to automatically assume someone lacks intelligence because of a language barrier, is quite small minded in my opinion.

    I think that best summarizes my whole point in posting this.
    Last edited by JDCrowell; 09-28-2010 at 12:50 AM.
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  19. #59
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    All I can say is that back on Keeper, you'd occasionally see LFM text saying "German speaking group" or "Brazilian group" or somesuch, which is btw perfectly FINE.

    The etiquette was that it was perfectly OK to join such a group as a non-German or non-Portuguese speaker -- just that you were forewarned that you would not be able to participate in party chat.

    So yeah -- this *is* an issue of etiquette. And yes, I suppose this might be an area where Ghallanda will need to adopt Keeper/Devourer etiquette rather than the other way 'round -- just being here first doesn't make veteran Ghallandans rules right in this particular case.

    "English speaking party". <<< Please notice how this is NOT insulting or condescending or exclusive or anything else nasty ? Thanx.

  20. #60
    Founder Oreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDCrowell View Post
    *snip*

    I guess living in Texas makes this a bit more of a sore subject to me. Just because someone doesn't speak English very well doesn't mean they don't understand or that they are stupid. It usually just means they are shy...usually. But to automatically assume someone lacks intelligence because of a language barrier, is quite small minded in my opinion.

    I think that best summarizes my whole point in posting this.
    I didn't read anywhere in that LFM that the group leader felt non English speaking people were stupid. What is stupid is making a mountain out of a molehill because ones personal opinion is that many "arrogant Americans have no patience for accents or other cultures". I used the word "many" because the word "another" was used implying that.

    We don't need more people creating drama on these forums.

    BTW go live in many countries in Europe as I have and you will see arrogance there as well. Towards America especially. Americans have a long way to go before they corner the market on arrogance. There is plenty of competition out there. It's all perspective and anyone with a brain should recognize it and justifiably ignore it.
    Last edited by Oreg; 09-28-2010 at 01:21 AM.
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