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  1. #21
    Community Member Krag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nysrock View Post
    Just my 2cp worth but...

    How can anyone say an item isn't used by your class with everyone TRing to different classes? Kinda takes that whole argument away to me.
    The TR reasoning is perfectly reasonable when you pulled an item yourself. Just mention that you are grabbing Madstone boots for your barbarian next life and nobody will think ill of you. It's your loot after all.

    Rolling on someone else loot with the vague "i might be able to use it when... if i reincarnate" is a totally different story.
    Osmand d'Medani, Stonebearer Eric, Wardreamer

  2. #22
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    i tend to agree with Dendrix for the most part, this shield was never yours, you cant loose something you didnt have.

    i can however understand frustration about that kind of buddy rolling, but then again, it was never yours

    completely different story woulda been if you had won the roll and then got skunked by people who thought you dont have much use for that item.

    at least the shield went to person who would use it, its not always the case, seen folks roll on things out of pure greed, just cause they are excited 'wooah!' and roll+win+loot without much thought.

  3. #23
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    look at the brighter side, no one has any obligation to put stuff up for roll, you had chance to roll for the shield, maybe next time the person whom it dropped just bags it to avoid such drama. i mean if you get offered to roll for loot, be happy, after all its not must, its a courtesy.

    PS: no i wasnt the one who got the shield nor do i know him, dont even play on that server, just to be clear

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMDarkwolf View Post
    That sucks but if i was the one with the shield, i would state something such as : Intim/tanks get first dibs, if they pass, roll goes to anyone else.

    I know it sounds mean and not really fair, but ive seen (and experienced) the hell some ppl go though for 'that' one item which 'completes' their build, while YOU just want the shield for 'temp' use.

    Its like barbs rolling on the monks ring 'just for that + to will saves' that the ring is, which they would just npc after they find better.(ToD)

    But saying that, if everyone who wanted / needed it had one, you would of course be next up.

    Also, the 'rolling then handing it off' **** is bs, and It annoys me that this happens. I myself did that to someone i have personally seen roll against me just to hand it off to another in party who lost the roll.(Was tharnes bracers when on my rog, I did the same thing to him with madstone boots and handed them to Quis *Ebil grin*)
    As stated, the shield is the only reason i run Hound. It is "that" item for me with regards to that raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    It didn't drop in your name. it's not your loot

    You didn't win the roll. It's not your loot.

    Someone won the roll, was passed the item, it became his item to do with as he chose.

    At no point was the shield ever yours. You have no basis to feel aggrieved, only disappointed at not winning the loot.
    Not able to comment on this, as this line of logic is infallible.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Yeah, it was just a thought. I'm not saying you're silly for wanting the Levik's Shield.

    Another "Epic Combination", though, just while I'm thinking about it. Epic (or even regular) Bramble Casters and the Epic Ward of Undeath were what a friend of mine used in epics for the longest time. 0% ASF, and since the Ward of Undeath is pretty much useless for anything else, he was able to make it easily. The Bramble Casters, I think he was a little luckier to get.
    already have Bramblecasters, epic Bramblecasters, and the epic Ward of Undeath

    Quote Originally Posted by r3dl4nce View Post
    /quote.
    Read this too: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274898

    I know that good rules should be followed even in PuGs, but, really, you can't whine because that item was never yours. You got a +1 completion, so 20th is more near. You can squelch the winned and his tank friend. You cannot do anything more.
    I understand that. I do not think something magical will come of posting my story on the forum. I just wanted to share my experience with my server's board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vazok1 View Post
    i'll help ya farm a bloodrage symboint if you want, thats 5dr which might work with a shield, nice for archers (not sure if it stacks i just use one on my monk)
    Have a Symbiont as well, but prefer to not swap out my Ioun Stone, as i forget to put it back on for the sp before shrining.

    Quote Originally Posted by hecate355 View Post
    i tend to agree with Dendrix for the most part, this shield was never yours, you cant loose something you didnt have.

    i can however understand frustration about that kind of buddy rolling, but then again, it was never yours

    completely different story woulda been if you had won the roll and then got skunked by people who thought you dont have much use for that item.

    at least the shield went to person who would use it, its not always the case, seen folks roll on things out of pure greed, just cause they are excited 'wooah!' and roll+win+loot without much thought.
    Skunked is essentially what happened. The only reason the friend rolled, as stated over voice by the friend, was because he didn't want me to win the shield over the tank.

    ------

    In summation, I know Your Loot Is Your Loot.
    You. Can. Stop. Repeating. It.

    People can do whatever they want with their loot, I have no control over what someone else does.

    Maybe I was not clear in my statement. I apologize and shall attempt again.

    Person A, B, C, and D roll for item. Person B rolls the highest for said item. Person E decides that they don't want person B to win the item, and roll to try to beat them so they can pass to person A who rolled for the item and lost, and then succeed in doing so. Person X, who pulled the item, passes to person E, who had the highest roll. Person E then passes to person A, who rolled lower than person B.

    Your Loot Is Your Loot being repeated ad nauseum aside, and being the ultimate and final arbiter to anything having to do with loot from now until the point of eternity, I was merely posting my opinion that I found this particular tactic distasteful.

    Disapointed me
    But I will get over it
    Your loot is your loot
    Vasska - A Tribe Called Zerg - Cannith

  5. #25
    Community Member r3dl4nce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIvanovFamily View Post
    Your Loot Is Your Loot being repeated ad nauseum aside, and being the ultimate and final arbiter to anything having to do with loot from now until the point of eternity, I was merely posting my opinion that I found this particular tactic distasteful.
    Well, your opinion is right, but the only thing the game permits to do is to /squelch Person A and E. There is simply no more you can do. Nor Turbine, I think. Should be better go back to the old "2 tokens" way of raid loot?

  6. #26
    Community Member Ystradmynach's Avatar
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    Can anyone explain why it is a bad idea to auction off loot? With people rolling who don't really need the item, it seems like an auction would be a fairer method. Sure, on the surface, it may discriminate against poorer players, but if you are a poor player, than you get a chance to gain some money by auctioning off items that you don't need that drop for you.

    And with an auction, you would only have to compete against the players who really want the item, otherwise they are unlikely to throw money at loot they aren't going to use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    One day you'll want to punch a smarmy Planetar in the face. It'll be nice to have then. "Look at me! I'm so shiny!"

  7. #27
    Community Member Scoundrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    It didn't drop in your name. it's not your loot

    You didn't win the roll. It's not your loot.

    Someone won the roll, was passed the item, it became his item to do with as he chose.

    At no point was the shield ever yours. You have no basis to feel aggrieved, only disappointed at not winning the loot.
    By your logic the person with the most friends in any raid would win most of the time.
    They would probably scratch each other’s back in return. I’m glad most people don’t go about it that way though
    Last edited by Scoundrel; 09-27-2010 at 06:12 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3dl4nce View Post
    Well, your opinion is right, but the only thing the game permits to do is to /squelch Person A and E. There is simply no more you can do. Nor Turbine, I think. Should be better go back to the old "2 tokens" way of raid loot?
    Absolutely not. The old token system was a horrible system in my opinion. I did not post that i thought the current system was bad, or that I felt that it required some other sort of method of recompense. I merely noted the names down on my list, posted the story on my server board to share and get some thoughts/opinions on the matter, and moved on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ystradmynach View Post
    Can anyone explain why it is a bad idea to auction off loot? With people rolling who don't really need the item, it seems like an auction would be a fairer method. Sure, on the surface, it may discriminate against poorer players, but if you are a poor player, than you get a chance to gain some money by auctioning off items that you don't need that drop for you.

    And with an auction, you would only have to compete against the players who really want the item, otherwise they are unlikely to throw money at loot they aren't going to use.
    It would indeed discourage people from going after loot they didn't plan to make much use of. However, I would think that it create an overly antagonistic raiding environment and just drive people into insular cliques (making pug raiding more tedious than it already is) when many players discovered that they had no chance to compete with more established players that were able to throw millions of plat, large ingredients, and rare epic raid scrolls around like they were some sort of cheerful festival piñata, exploding in fabulous spray of Delicious Candy at the merest whim or desire when struck by the enchanting melodies of Ph4t L3wt and Shiny Itemz.

    I am pretty sure that i just created a horrible run-on sentence, but I am too sleep deprived to remedy it at this moment :v
    Vasska - A Tribe Called Zerg - Cannith

  9. #29
    Community Member PopeJual's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    It didn't drop in your name. it's not your loot

    You didn't win the roll. It's not your loot.

    Someone won the roll, was passed the item, it became his item to do with as he chose.

    At no point was the shield ever yours. You have no basis to feel aggrieved, only disappointed at not winning the loot.
    The only problem with this is that the Tank didn't win the roll. The thing that makes /rolling for BtC items actually work is that only the people who actually want the item roll for it.

    Your loot is your loot = good player attitude.
    Rolling for stuff that you don't actually want just to give a buddy a second roll that he doesn't deserve = scum.

  10. #30
    Community Member Bunker's Avatar
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    An item is put up for roll. The act of /roll is a way to give equal chance for everyone in the party to win.

    All I see here, is 1 player getting an advantage of 2 dice rolls to everyone elses 1 roll. Doesn't really sound fair and equal now, does it?

    For those that cannot understand that logic, you need not reply, you cannot be helped.
    Mothergoose - Kardinal - Bunks

  11. #31
    Community Member r3dl4nce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    Your loot is your loot = good player attitude.
    IMHO this is not a good attitude.

    Your loot is your loot if you make good use of it, IMHO, is good attitude. But, we all know, in PuG the whole ddo world recognizes only "your loot is your loot". This is why I never PuG raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    Rolling for stuff that you don't actually want just to give a buddy a second roll that he doesn't deserve = scum.
    And rolling for stuff to sell and make money of it? And rolling for stuff even if you don't know if you use it? And rolling for stuff for your 20th TR when you are on your first life?
    IMHO, when someone wins a roll, he can do whatever he wants for it. If you don't like you can never ever party with that player.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIvanovFamily View Post
    Rolls go around on interested parties doing their randoming. Excitement: I manage to win what I thought was the rolls of everyone interested. Unfortunately, one of the friends of a Tank in the group that was obviously The Only Person That Can Use A Shield said he was rolling since I was. That's fine I thought, whatever. The Tank's friend wins the roll and then passes the shield to the aforementioned Tank, who had rolled and lost.
    Please pm me with the names

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post

    Someone won the roll, was passed the item, it became his item to do with as he chose.
    Absolutely Not. This is wrong on so many levels.

    I place loot up for roll if I have no use for it. As such I expect people who roll on it to have a use for it, not so they can give it to someone else. To roll and pass it on to a friend is completely inappropriate.

    Doing this stacks the deck against everyone else who has rolled for the item. That is not right by any stretch of the imagination.

  14. #34
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Rolling for something that you know another person need waaay more than you do is very lame if you ask me.
    It's a sense of solidarity I guess...

  15. #35
    Community Member shadow_419's Avatar
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    I find it bad taste to roll on something you intend to pass to someone else. If the original looter of the shield didn't want anyone but melee's rolling on it just say so and it's /endofdrama. There really isn't great loot in hound and I'd just take it as completion towards my 20th. It's friggin hound.

  16. #36
    Community Member Ilundel's Avatar
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    OP, Although I see the logic of why you want one of the hound shields and understand how you are frustrated by these shenanigans (I myself would have been furious had something like that happened to me), I do have to point something out.

    For a main Tank or Intimatank, they will use this type of shield 100% of the time. They will tank with it, usually tanking raid bosses or the like. The AC and DR of this shield is just plain best out there. You on the other hand, will need this shield at best 50% of the time. Even then, it would probably even be better for you to hop around like a bunny to avoid those arrows whenever possible but most likely you'll using it for procs on Concordant opposition or Torc along with situations where you can't hop around to avoid the archers.

    Usually, it is need before greed as far as i'm concerned. Personnally, I would have gotten into the hound, but seeing a tank needed the shield, would not even have rolled and took my completion to get closer to 20 - their needs are just much greater then mine for something that is situationnally usefull on my caster vs all the time on a tank.

    With that said, the other friend rolling over you and winning the roll is shady at best. Had I been the person pulling the shield, I would have ignored his roll, especially since it was done AFTER calling out what they would do. I would have probably also tried to convince you, the winner, that maybe you should think about who's need is really greater when you would have won the roll, provided the second in line was a tank but ultimately let you decide what you do with the shield after you won the roll. Would have been a bit dissapointed into the general behavior of our society after you would have pulled the shield but at least feeling like I followed the honorable thing to do and say the correct thing to say, letting you do your own moral decisions.

    BTW, just my 2 cents. I wasn't anywhere near that raid, but that's how I would comfort myself if I was

    Thelanis - Legion
    Ilundel - Elandra - Eliandra - Ilunbot - Mildred - Kyzac - Estelwen - Glondor - Destlor

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopeJual View Post
    Your loot is your loot = good player attitude.
    Rolling for stuff that you don't actually want just to give a buddy a second roll that he doesn't deserve = scum.


  18. #38
    Community Member Slugnutty's Avatar
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    While I agree the pass was lame and you should have gotten the shield on the roll..... it still boils down to - it was his loot to do with as he sees fit.

    You got hosed, remember who he was - spread his name around so your friends know he is a D-bag and never run with him again.

    Sorry for your loss though - that stinks.

  19. #39
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    What was done to counter your roll was absolute bs, sorry that happened. What would have been okay imo is for the person who pulled it to limit who gets to roll for it imo. Nonetheless, what I am forced to do it seems in most raid situations is wait for 20 completions to get a shot at items that I want. The glacier bracers on my main for example. I'd been in I think 5 groups before hitting another 20 completions where it dropped. I wasn't allowed to roll on them each time because I wasn't a 'caster' or a 'tank'. That's how ignorant some people can be.

    It's better overall to just let it go and grab what you need from the end reward list at 20 completions. It's frustrating, I know. I've hit 40 completions on VON and haven't seen the SOS in the list. But I've seen it drop multiple times now and been disallowed by the puller on rolling on it.

    Their loot, their decision. Even if it allows poor decisions.
    Last edited by taurean430; 09-27-2010 at 09:34 AM.

  20. #40
    Community Member AMDarkwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    I personally think the whole "Oh I'll use it for my TR" thing is lame. People change their minds entirely too much about their toons' future plans, whereas someone else in party can likely use the item right now. But again, loot is loot, if its not in your name, them's the breaks.
    agreed, same philosophy for when i pull something like this. First dibs are those who i KNOW can use it and need it, 2nd up are those who will 'use' it but not necessarily 'need' it. then if both 'groups' pass, its free to go to whoever wants it(and yes a few times its even gone to guys who npc it for want of anyone else who needed)

    But the rolling cuz your friend lost the roll, just to hand it to him, while not really against any rules, is a ******** move and would, after a few repeats, get that person on my blacklist.

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