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  1. #21
    Community Member Lissyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    The changes to Ice Storm sounds amazing. Can't wait. Now, if they could only find some way to make Acid/Lighting more useful, as this just widens the disparity between the elemental lines - imho.
    I confess to owning many, many more 2E books than I ever did/will 3.5, but among them...I think perhaps in the Seven Sisters?...was a particularly lovely lightning spell called Web of Lightning, level 8. Yes, it was much as it sounds. A short-term field of lightning bolts. Could make an interesting non-elemental-line addendum to high-level dps-type spells. I can think of a few such nice acid/lightning spells (Vitriolic Sphere from 2E Spells&Magic comes to mind, an acidic DoT with substantially higher initial damage output than, say, Melf's).

    Would also like to mention in passing...Energy Substitution (I know, people have mentioned it before) and Energy Admixture (with Substitution as its prereq, of course) from 3.5. Particularly with the seperation of different elements into their own AP lines, Admixture could show some interesting combinations to increase caster DPS effectiveness without becoming all-overpowering (and the nature of sp in general prevents it from becoming OP in relation to sustained melee).

    Just some thoughts.

    “Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present.”

  2. #22
    Developer Eladrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Will this work on enemy Walls of Fire? Can our Ice Storm put theirs out?
    Yes, or you can use Gust of Wind. </tease>

    When and where to you want them? This is going to be an avalanche of a topic - and don't want to post my thoughts on the matter in the wrong spot.
    Right now we're still in a bugfixing phase, so I'll probably post something on MyDDO. Probably sooner rather than later since I've mentioned it.

    The big spell pass isn't on an update seven timeline, by the way. This is a longer term project.

    Also only arcane spells or divine spells also?
    We can't really do one without the other, which is why it's a major task. (Okay, we could, but I think that would be unwise.) We're likely to do parts of it incrementally, however. (Reduce cost of single target instantaneous spells in one pass, then make further adjustments in the next, etc.)

  3. #23
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    One important note is that Ice Storm and Wall of Fire won't stack - the Wall of Fire will be extinguished by the storm.

    We're going to be going through a bunch of the spells and take the ones that are "less than optimal" and see what we can do with them, as well as adding more "specialty" spells that will by their nature be mostly Wizard oriented. (Deconstruct, maybe?)

    We're also considering doing a pass on spell point costs, and a possible redo of the Sorcerer and Wizard damage amplification and spell crit lines - breaking the four elements back apart, adding more tiers (that may go beyond 40%) and adjusting the costs appropriately (Possibly 1/1/1/1/1/1... rather than 1/2/3/4, for instance).

    We'll want feedback on what the "worst of the worst" spells are. I know the Power Words are way up there on that list, and there are a bunch of other terrible ones - maybe I'll go make that my next blog post...
    Beyond awesomesauce

    E you are making people (at least me) very happy

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  4. #24
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    adding more "specialty" spells that will by their nature be mostly Wizard oriented. (Deconstruct, maybe?)


    No sorc love

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    (Deconstruct, maybe?)
    Sounds like Disable Construct from the Artificer infusion list. Artificers have a full line of Inflict Damage spells to invert Repair magic. Makes sense that other arcane casters could have it too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    We're also considering doing a pass on spell point costs
    You've seen the recent threads on that, right? Fixing spellpoint costs would probably be more than a "tuning pass", because it's not just a matter of tweaking a bunch of scalars up or down: it'll probably call for adding whole new rule mechanics.

    One useful way of looking at the current situation is to ask this question:
    How much more damage can a Maximized Empowered Wall of Fire produce than a Maximized Empowered Force Missiles? Do those two options really deserve to have identical spellpoint costs?

    One type of change that's an interesting possibility is to just give all immediate damage spells (non-lingering) a 50-75% discount on final spellpoint costs (after all metamagics are added). But there's a lot of complexity that could be gone into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    We'll want feedback on what the "worst of the worst" spells are. I know the Power Words are way up there on that list, and there are a bunch of other terrible ones - maybe I'll go make that my next blog post...
    I'll reply more to that momentarily regarding direct damage spells, but categories of spells that are even worse off are those that are limited by HD or hp:
    Power Word Kill/Stun, Symbol of Death, Circle of Death, Undeath to Death, Deep Slumber, Sleep, and Daze Person/Monster.

    Suggestions to improve those spells are included towards the end of this suggestion list, and generally come down to allowing it to apply to targets above the threshold but with an added saving throw:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=270835

    Quote Originally Posted by Draccus View Post
    ROFL@Icestorm.
    Making that sorcerer easymode button even bigger.
    Ice Storm will be more of a buff to Wizards, who won't need to make any longterm spell reshuffles to get Ice Storm into their list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    It won't be better than wall of fire where wof works because you can't get the crossing-over ticks which are a key part of wall damage, especially when you put multiple walls together.
    That's a low-level implementation detail of a spell version that hasn't been released yet. How do you know the new Ice Storm isn't pasting in the code from Wall of Fire?

  6. #26
    Community Member MrWizard's Avatar
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    one thing is for sure....

    about 30 minutes after the update goes live a forum post will go something like this..


    "Ban ice storm casters from my groups"

    "The ceaseless and endless sound of avalanches throughout the whole quest and raid
    is killing me. I hate ice strom"


    Old timers, remember how ice storm used to make your own party slip and scurry on the ice?
    That is one thing the nay sayers are missing...it will slow mobs down as they run through it too..


    I just bought a few thousand scrolls of it...lol
    Cannon fodder build The Stalwart Defender, Raid Tank
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  7. #27
    Developer Eladrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    No sorc love
    Sorcerers will still benefit from things like "Ice Storm is now a persistent lingering AOE", and improvements made to bad spells, but their inherent need for specialization makes them less likely to pick up spells that are excel against certain opponent types. The ability to switch spells out isn't as valuable in DDO as in P&P because of there's such a limited number of "worthy" spells.

    You can also freely replace "Sorcerer" with "Favored Soul", and "Wizard" with "Cleric" in the above comments.

  8. #28
    Community Member khaldan's Avatar
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    Are scrolls and wands of ice storm going away in u7?

  9. #29
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    As for the Spell point costs...

    Perhaps for the AoE DoT spells like WoF and such an extra SP cost

    say something like

    WoF
    lvl 4 spell
    SP cost 25 + 4sp per tick


    Acid Fog
    lvl 6 spell
    SP cost 35 +6sp per tick (though I think this spell itself could use a friendly pass as well perhaps a slight Damage increase, maybe in the form of an initial immersion damage similar to lava followed by the regular damage)


    that way if the spell is cancelled by some counterspelling spell (Gust of Wind?... that's more for fogs than WoF I'd say)

    Then the point cost doesn't become burdensome while the spell is no longer being effective .

    This may cause some problems for people trying to overflow an area with AoE DoTs... but then again that may be a good thing then... more tactical instead of spray and pray.

    Aesop
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  10. #30
    Community Member JeffreyGator's Avatar
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    Would it make some sense to allow acid rain/acid fog to become more comparable to Firewall in the same way as what you are doing with icestorm.

    One thing nice about the ice storm is that unlike firewall it will be a equally effective (apart from from access to higher levels of enhancement) for a level 7 wizard as a level 20 wizard.


    And a variety of other multiclassed toons without vowels thnk/r/s/rbll/sgmp

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissyl View Post
    I confess to owning many, many more 2E books than I ever did/will 3.5, but among them...I think perhaps in the Seven Sisters?...was a particularly lovely lightning spell called Web of Lightning, level 8. Yes, it was much as it sounds. A short-term field of lightning bolts. Could make an interesting non-elemental-line addendum to high-level dps-type spells. I can think of a few such nice acid/lightning spells (Vitriolic Sphere from 2E Spells&Magic comes to mind, an acidic DoT with substantially higher initial damage output than, say, Melf's).

    Would also like to mention in passing...Energy Substitution (I know, people have mentioned it before) and Energy Admixture (with Substitution as its prereq, of course) from 3.5. Particularly with the seperation of different elements into their own AP lines, Admixture could show some interesting combinations to increase caster DPS effectiveness without becoming all-overpowering (and the nature of sp in general prevents it from becoming OP in relation to sustained melee).

    Just some thoughts.
    There was a version of Vitriolic Sphere in 3.5. It was a 5th level (initially, WotC monkeyed with it in errata) spell sort of like a cross between a fire ball and a melf's. It did its initial damage, and then did 2 more rounds of damage if subsequent saves weren't made...also it had no SR check, so was useful agains things with high SR like certian types of Outsiders, and Golems. One of my sorc's go to spells for higher level damage output (Twin Vitriolic Spheres for the win! )
    Griey Tovallian: Human Sorc 20/Epic 5 (Shiradi currently) - Askalia Turannian: Elf Rog2/Pal2/FvS11 - Curinator Mk III(4th life): WF Monk2/Artificer 15 - Luscien Redwign: Human Rog1/Ftr3/Clr3 (number-crunching in progress, will probably be LRed ) - Vyleraea Maguskin: Drow Wiz17/Rog2/Art1 - Other alts to be added as I start more actively playing them

  12. #32
    Community Member sirdanile's Avatar
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    I just had a braingasm.

    I am looking forward to this.
    The bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to keep me tame.
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  13. #33
    Community Member Rumbaar's Avatar
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    Still no Prestige Enhancement lines for Sorcerers

    Was saddened to read that Exhausted bosses wont be slowed, even less reason to take an arcane now.
    Leader - Ωmega Syndicate [L41] guild of Khyber|Orien - www.os.rumbaar.net
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  14. #34
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    While you're fixing spells, can you PLEASE finally fix Greater Teleport so that you don't have to run into an instance to use it?
    Argonnessen: Mayling (Hum Ftr6), Miala (Elf Rog5), Zaira (Hum Clr4), Nimetta (Hfl Wiz9), Presli (Hel Brd2)
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  15. #35
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    /blah
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  16. #36
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Yes, or you can use Gust of Wind. </tease>

    As Mr. Burns might say, "Eeeeeeeeeeeexcellent."


    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    The big spell pass isn't on an update seven timeline, by the way. This is a longer term project.
    I understand that 100%, and I am not taking any of this as any kind of promise to deliver this anytime in the near future. Or ever, maybe, if the reworking does not turn out to the Dev team's liking. However, I am really glad that it is something that the Dev team is looking at, and considering a fresh approach with. I thank you very, very much for it - and want to help as best I can.
    53461

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samy View Post
    While you're fixing spells, can you PLEASE finally fix Greater Teleport so that you don't have to run into an instance to use it?
    Yes please!

  18. #38
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Spell point cost wise, maybe there needs to be different costs depending on the class of a spell, for both base cost and metamagic addon cost.

    Persistent spells same cost as now, oneshot spells slightly cheaper.

    And I agree with the suggestion of giving us more AP and scaling enhancement costs as required, sometimes enhancements are just not worth a full point, but people might be tempted to take it if for example, we had double the points we have now (and useful one point enhancements cost two) and some enhancements still only cost one point (in effect making them cost half of a current AP)

  19. #39
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Waves of exhaustion no longer does the slow effect? Wow.. So much for melee on the demon queen that becomes a thing of the past unless of course there is some sort of cruddy intimidate bozo in group. We fight from the tail and range from everywhere on epic dq2 now, but in the future it will be lousy to melee.

    Icestorm I am unsure if it is a good idea to buff that spell there is a reason why the devils are immune to fire wall in a sense that gave melee more of a place in the end game if there is a comparable ice and other elemental spells who knows...
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  20. #40
    Community Member zed1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Yes, or you can use Gust of Wind. </tease>
    One Mark of Storm down, two to go.

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