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Thread: Best DPS class?

  1. #101
    Community Member Vynnt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    You play epics? It's about 50% and vorps don't work.

    I love my ranger but you need to keep it real.
    Sure there are a lot of epic, but what are the most common ones?

    Von 1-2, Dragon
    Wiz King, DQ2

    Stuff dies so fast in the new content Epics that those don't really matter.

    Epic Dragon is the only raid in the entire game that the standard 5 FEs don't cover.
    .
    F O E C L E A V E R

  2. #102
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    Ranger DPS is horrible (end-game), here are 2 different proofs:

    1. (subjective) Almost everyone I know has parked their rangers
    2. (objective) Rangers to-hit = no power attack + misses

    Do your numbers again (ps: this applies to rogues, monks, etc, as well)

    Fighters = #1, Barbarians = #2, Everything Else = Crowd Control or Useless
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  3. #103
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stockwizard5 View Post
    Ranger DPS is horrible (end-game), here are 2 different proofs:

    1. (subjective) Almost everyone I know has parked their rangers
    2. (objective) Rangers to-hit = no power attack + misses

    Do your numbers again (ps: this applies to rogues, monks, etc, as well)

    Fighters = #1, Barbarians = #2, Everything Else = Crowd Control or Useless
    I have always seen alot of power in the ranger class when using a bow when you manyshot. That actually seems to be the way the class is designed in DDO since you get both the twf and many of the essential bow feats just for taking 11 ranger levels it really is a ranged/melee combo class. It is strange to me why so many people, in the forums and in game are so resistant to this style of playing a ranger. Manyshot coupled with improved precise shot is terrifying so why more people do not use it and why it is not factored into dps equations by the 'experts' I have never understood.
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  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Barbs are idiot-proof,
    Never underestimate idiots. Barbs and rogues are both bad player intolerant classes.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • One loot system to rule them all. (Including Cannith Crafting, and Named Loot.)
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Adjusting Challenge XP so that they're worth running more than once.

  5. #105
    Community Member zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I have always seen alot of power in the ranger class when using a bow when you manyshot. That actually seems to be the way the class is designed in DDO since you get both the twf and many of the essential bow feats just for taking 11 ranger levels it really is a ranged/melee combo class. It is strange to me why so many people, in the forums and in game are so resistant to this style of playing a ranger. Manyshot coupled with improved precise shot is terrifying so why more people do not use it and why it is not factored into dps equations by the 'experts' I have never understood.
    Dogma?

    If one bases ones conclusions of ones own gameplay experience one might come to conclusions such as:
    *Ranged characters have bad damage output
    *Ranged characters pull aggro and die
    *Ranged is generally bad

    That might blind people to the situations where ranged shines, namely short bursts and or sufficient mobs and imp.prec.

    Given a moderately skilled player a caster or ranged char can kite without much danger of getting hurt. Kiting characters stacks well with kiting characters.

    This combined makes ranged quite potent when you have multiple casters/ranged chars, all being sufficiently twinked and skilled, and zerg past a sufficient amount of mobs before starting to kill.

  6. #106
    Community Member kyebosh's Avatar
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    How funny, I just finished working out this build
    Not typical I know, very much an end-game I-have-too-much-spare-time build.

    Assumptions:
    Rogue 20
    Assassin 3
    Halfling
    2WF Chain
    Min2 Heavy Picks
    Evil, non acid immune, 0 fort target
    End-game gear


    *Ignore the dice calcs for the totals. The "X to Y" should be correct.
    Last edited by kyebosh; 09-03-2010 at 08:56 PM.

  7. #107
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    We don't include IPS, Dogma, or non-existant targets because MAX DPS (i.e. the characters that make that much effort to achieve) is only important for End-Game Elite/Epic content named bosses + a handful of others (since that's what those characters run) and those things don't apply there.
    Last edited by stockwizard5; 09-05-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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  8. #108
    Community Member elujin's Avatar
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    Cool

    your all wrong a warchanter brings most dps to raids :P

  9. #109
    Community Member zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stockwizard5 View Post
    We don't include IPS, Dogma, or non-existant targets because MAX DPS (i.e. the characters that make that much effort to achieve) is only important for End-Game Elite/Epic content named bosses + a handful of others (since that's what those characters run) and those things don't apply there.
    I would argue that the reason why DPS calcs are done the way they are is three fold.
    A. It's easier to calc that way
    B. It's easier to understand
    C. It's the way end game used to be

    Longer explanations
    A. In order to properly model fights against trash mobs you would have to account for the placement and probable movement patterns of all mobs, extensive information needed. Also you would at the least have to take party composition into account and prefereably damage output/hp of mobs not to mention deviations from optimality and the impact of tactics/playstyle, basic addition and multiplication would not be sufficient.

    C. This character has 500DPS, this other character has 450DPS is easy for anyone to use for comparison. Splitting it up into different sources means that the person reading needs to be familiar enough with both game content, game mechanics and maths to be able to evaluate the one character scenario. Doing multi dimensional comparisons is somewhat hard and difficult to illustrate.

    B. Static raid boss beatdown was previouosly the only situation where DPS was of any great importance. Killing bosses composed a minor amount of time in running quests and trash was trash. Currently the situations where DPS is important is not limited to raidbosses as you yourself admit. In epics the bosses of regular quests can be bothersome and the trash doesn't instantly die as soon as they get within casting range. It's no longer limited to static fights, thus the relative advantage of ranged is increased. Killing insane hp trash can compose a noticeable proportion of time in quest, thus IPS can be of great importance. I would at least imagine that gathering some 10-20 mobs for IPS twinked out MS performed by multiple rangers would result in some spectacular DPS...

    Also; from m-w.com
    Definition of DOGMA
    1
    a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
    2
    : a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

    Something that is definitely used to a large extent, both in MAX DPS calcs and in your post

    That the world is flat is a perfectly adequate model for most people, most of the time.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by f0nkeL View Post
    Well, if Sorcerers/Wizzards aren't glass cannons, what are they good for then? Surely they are not used for buffing or healing.

    .
    Actually sorcs and wizards are great for buffing. Also one of the things that make WF main tanks so nice is that sorc/wiz can heal them also.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    *pokes the patch with a stick* get out there you,
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    We were pretty up front that the twf update was going to be a nerf regardless of lag or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Um, I'm almost afraid to ask, but exactly just what is 'sneak humping'?

  11. #111
    Community Member Crann's Avatar
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    The strength of this game, is shown in debates like this.


    The fact is.........there is no clear class/build that is the overall "Best DPS"


    DPS numbers are so subjective and situational, that it lets a multitude of different builds and classes each shine at different times.

    If there was one clear "Best DPS," then every raid would be 11 of them and a healer.

    It is kind of amusing though, that more talk wasn't focused on Sorc's.....no other class comes remotely close to the amount of damage a capped, geared Sorc can put out.

    Again, situationally (and relatively briefly).....but if you want to say "Highest DPS Possible," there are no higher numbers.

    The sustainable dps arguement might be made against them, but alot of non-sustainable numbers(haste boosts, power surges, smites) are figured into other classes dps numbers...so again, its all very subjective.

  12. #112
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crann View Post
    The strength of this game, is shown in debates like this.


    The fact is.........there is no clear class/build that is the overall "Best DPS"
    A better conclusion would be that "best DPS" is never needed, and is not even always desired.
    The current Best DPS also changes too easily for the whole playerbase to adjust accordingly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Crann View Post
    It is kind of amusing though, that more talk wasn't focused on Sorc's.....no other class comes remotely close to the amount of damage a capped, geared Sorc can put out.
    That statement is highly exaggerated.

  13. #113
    Founder Mobeius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crann View Post
    The strength of this game, is shown in debates like this.


    The fact is.........there is no clear class/build that is the overall "Best DPS"


    DPS numbers are so subjective and situational, that it lets a multitude of different builds and classes each shine at different times.

    If there was one clear "Best DPS," then every raid would be 11 of them and a healer.

    It is kind of amusing though, that more talk wasn't focused on Sorc's.....no other class comes remotely close to the amount of damage a capped, geared Sorc can put out.

    Again, situationally (and relatively briefly).....but if you want to say "Highest DPS Possible," there are no higher numbers.

    The sustainable dps arguement might be made against them, but alot of non-sustainable numbers(haste boosts, power surges, smites) are figured into other classes dps numbers...so again, its all very subjective.
    I agree with and understand some of what you are saying. However, arcanes being the best DPS, really? They have their niche as well but heavily restricted to their SP pool and over all a well built melee is going to out DPS casters in the long run. Unless they have tons of mnuemonics which gets expensive.

    As someone said before, if you want to get technical, War Chanter bards bring the most DPS to any table for a quest.

    If you want to really bring the BIGGEST DPS numbers to the table, it would be dark monks using windstance an dropping 1500 to 2500 with Touch of Death. Monks with Void 4 can drop super high HP epic mobs in one shot as well.

    So I think the over all thread is talking about sustained DPS not just single target big numbers.

  14. #114
    Community Member Crann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobeius View Post
    If you want to really bring the BIGGEST DPS numbers to the table, it would be dark monks using windstance an dropping 1500 to 2500 with Touch of Death. Monks with Void 4 can drop super high HP epic mobs in one shot as well.
    1800 point spammed Polar Rays don't count, or aren't impressive? I personally don't know what they would max out at, but a Sorc I run Shroud with on occasion hits 1800 pretty regularly, while popping off other spells on cool down. How many ToD's can be activated in say, a 5 minute window?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobeius View Post
    So I think the over all thread is talking about sustained DPS not just single target big numbers.
    I pretty much said this wasn't sustainable.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crann View Post
    1800 point spammed Polar Rays don't count, or aren't impressive? I personally don't know what they would max out at, but a Sorc I run Shroud with on occasion hits 1800 pretty regularly, while popping off other spells on cool down. How many ToD's can be activated in say, a 5 minute window?

    I pretty much said this wasn't sustainable.
    Pretty often for TOD, they only need 50 Ki and with how monks work they can get Ki by regenerating it and even build it for the big fights, etc. Not to mention the dark monk is also adding their regular melee damage. no saves, no SR, no reduction in damage. Just so you know I run a light monk as my main with Void 4, I have considered going dark, but the ability to do over 2000 points of damage (including their fist and possibly TOD rings, for 50 Ki is pretty impressive and easy.

    I think I have seen a huge influx of monk players lately, all going dark just about.

  16. #116
    Community Member Crann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobeius View Post
    . Just so you know I run a light monk as my main with Void 4, I have considered going dark, but the ability to do over 2000 points of damage (including their fist and possibly TOD rings, for 50 Ki is pretty impressive and easy.
    My highest monk is level 8, so I have no experience with Void 4 or TOD rings, but look forward to them very much if you are saying you can regularly do a 2000 point attack every few seconds. The highest DPS ratings I have seen are around 500. This would certainly top that, and put monks at the top of the DPS rankings, no?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crann View Post
    My highest monk is level 8, so I have no experience with Void 4 or TOD rings, but look forward to them very much if you are saying you can regularly do a 2000 point attack every few seconds. The highest DPS ratings I have seen are around 500. This would certainly top that, and put monks at the top of the DPS rankings, no?
    Monks are becoming seemingly more and more popular with the TOD, there is something like 20 members in guild leveling up dark monks right now. TOD refresh timer is what 10 seconds and 50 Ki at level 20 is close to where your starting Ki should be. Most daark monks go Ninja PRE and dont have VOID 4. Void 4, dark TOD, Light RoP are all expensive trees to obtain. Thats why most dark monks do not take VOID 4 and unless Shintao is super hawt in its redesign, I will stay with void 4 for my light monk. In addition, apparently the dark debuffs (at least some) work on raid bosses where as the light debuffs dont work at all.

    TOD = Tower of Despair or Touch of Death

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