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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Not really. Looks like Vorpal Strikes got fixed in U15, so hopefully it's now WAI; haven't tested it myself. I hope someday Turbine gets around to those Dragonmark-based racial PrEs to help her get more mileage from those two DMs. But otherwise I think she's a solid flavor option for elf-lovin' punchers.
    Would there be any way to put some rogues level in there in order to get trap disabling ability and a bit of sneak attack? I guess not, as it seems it would break the build too badly, but I thought I d asked anyway
    Last edited by Lauraliane; 09-24-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #22
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauraliane View Post
    Would there be any way to put some rogues level in there in order to get trap disabling ability and a bit of sneak attack?
    Possible? Sure. But I'm not a fan of splashing monks; the capstone is just too nice, IMHO, especially since monks kinda get the short end of the stick as far as PRR goes, so getting free DR is better than none.

    That said, you could do something that's more heavily multi-classed: e.g., monk 12 / rog 8. That gets you a lot monk goodies - ToD, NS II, Imp Evasion, third-tier stances - while adding a bunch of rogue skills, more sneak atk, W&S Mastery III, and Imp Uncanny Dodge. Not sure if I'd still go WIS-based in that case, though, as your dark-monk DCs are based on your monk lvls as well as your WIS; so you might be sapping them too much by MCing. Although Stunning Fist is based on char lvl and on a build with something like 7D6+9 SA, a high stunner like that's still pretty cool.

  3. #23
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quick test build to see how well monk 12 / rog 8 variant works:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Female
    (12 Monk \ 8 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 276
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 13
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 18
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               16                    26
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    12
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         2                    28
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device        3                    22
    Haggle               -1                     0
    Heal                  3                     8
    Hide                  3                    10
    Intimidate           -1                     0
    Jump                  5                     8
    Listen                3                    10
    Move Silently         7                    18
    Open Lock             7                    10
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search                3                    25
    Spot                  3                    10
    Swim                  2                     3
    Tumble                4                     7
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+3)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Disable Device (+3)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+3)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Move Silently (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+3)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
    Enhancement: Touch of Death
    Enhancement: Porous Soul
    Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
    Enhancement: Winter's Touch
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Master of Thunder
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Epic feats: Imp Martial Arts & Vorpal Strikes

    I skipped a rogue PrE because APs are tight enough it basically boiled down to either that or ToD and I decided ToD is cooler. Went rogue 8 which provides W&S Mastery III (+60% total); combined with monk heal amp (+30%) and Jid'z-Tetka bracers (+25% in Fire Stance) should make this build pretty self-sufficient once UMD is high enough. Also adds Imp Uncanny Dodge, which provides 50% Dodge for 20(?) secs and is now on cooldown rather limited-per-rest. 50% concealment * 50% Dodge * 25% Incorporeality = can't touch this (for brief periods).

    Think I may have spread skill pts a little too thin, though; I wanted some pts in Move Silently & Open Lock but ended up short-changing Spot.

  4. #24
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    Ah nice! Like you saw I did a dext version with a bit of assassin here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=393364

    I have a few questions for you then

    You don't take weapon finesse, is that fine with only 14 Strength? I d like to drop it and replace it by Stunning Fist as you do, but again my Wisdom might suck too much to make use of it hmm.

    Is way of the patient tortoise really better than faithful hound? +3 to hit while flanking vs +10 HP. Well I guess the + 2 to concentration is also a plus ^^

    How good is stunning Fist at high level? Aren't there like a bunch of mobs immune to it (since that's a typical game designer defense against stun effects). Is the DC high enough?

    In every case as you probably noticed, I really enjoy your build, especially the elf shadow flavor

    I tried a wis version too after seeing yours

    Mainly the enhancement change a bit, as I find the Wisdom 3 enhancement really expansive :/ I also take Rogue Skills 3 instead of Wand 3 (as I play in a group where I am supposed to be the trap guy), and manage to squeeze Assassin I but I lose Monk Recovery. That being said I am never solo and always have a dedicated healer in group.

    What do you think of it?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Female
    (12 Monk \ 8 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 246
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 17
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         12                    14
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom               16                    25
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    14
    Concentration         1                    17
    Disable Device        5                    26
    Heal                  3                     7
    Hide                  5                    19
    Jump                  6                     9
    Listen                3                    11
    Move Silently         5                    18
    Open Lock             7                    21
    Search                5                    28
    Spot                  7                    32
    Tumble                7                    10
    Use Magic Device      3                    24
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
    Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
    Enhancement: Touch of Death
    Enhancement: Porous Soul
    Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
    Enhancement: Winter's Touch
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Master of Thunder
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
    Last edited by Lauraliane; 09-24-2012 at 07:38 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauraliane View Post
    Would there be any way to put some rogues level in there in order to get trap disabling ability and a bit of sneak attack? I guess not, as it seems it would break the build too badly, but I thought I d asked anyway
    FWIW my build was a 1 lvl Rogue splash. The whole build was was pure flavor, but ended up being quite badass in reality (at least before the highest levels). Ridiculously survivable and flexible build Never got her to cap before I stopped playing regularly; Where no doubt the elitist DPS types would have killed the fun of playing her. The reality is that being neigh on invulnerable for stretches allows for player skill to shine through. So I could do things like recover an entire raid from a near wipe with her survivability, and get it back on track with flexibility (if the Rogue rage quit for example during the near wipe)

    Character was the most fun I had playing DDO, could reach anywhere, had Rogue skills and the ability to physically avoid traps with movement skill, I often lead Vault of Night raids with her, because she could do almost any role in there.

    The agility and movement skills really made the game more fun, I also really enjoyed my Capped FvS for the same reason, high mobility of the wings just makes the game play better. and allows actual player skill to improve your play over just brute RPG numbers.

    So did they ever add Ninja Spy III? PrE?
    Last edited by IronClan; 09-25-2012 at 08:37 AM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  6. #26
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauraliane View Post
    You don't take weapon finesse, is that fine with only 14 Strength?
    I'm counting on Precision and the fact unarmed monks count as having full BAB and take no offhand penalty like TWF builds to make up for the low-ish STR. Plus as you can see I went WIS- rather DEX-based, so Finesse wouldn't help me much anyway. But to be honest, I haven't had a chance to test a build like this post-U14 under the new AC system, so the real answer is I don't know.
    Is way of the patient tortoise really better than faithful hound? +3 to hit while flanking vs +10 HP. Well I guess the + 2 to concentration is also a plus ^^
    Force of habit: I always take Tortoise unless I have some reason for taking something else. Hound could help if you find your to-hit marginal; and some people prefer Monkey for the energy resist.
    How good is stunning Fist at high level? Aren't there like a bunch of mobs immune to it (since that's a typical game designer defense against stun effects). Is the DC high enough?
    I don't run many Epic Elites (to be blunt I don't have the gear for it on most of my toons), but on Epic Hard I've seen plenty of monks still pwning mobs with Stunning Fist. Not sure what the DC thresholds are these days, though.
    manage to squeeze Assassin I but I lose Monk Recovery.
    IMHO the +1D6 SA from Assassin I isn't worth the AP cost; I'd rather enhance my build's survivability thru heal amp or W&S Mastery. But that's just an enh respec.

    The only other major difference is you started INT 12 CON 12 rather than INT 8 CON 14. Again, personally I'd rather up my survivability (extra HPs & +1 Fort) than my skills, especially on such a squishy race / class combo; it also puts Earth Stance III in reach should I happen to be crazy enough to hate-tank w/an elf. But again, that's your call.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    So did they ever add Ninja Spy III? PrE?
    Not yet - supposed to be part of the Enhancement overhaul, whenever the heck Turbine finishes that. I've already stopped counting how many updates it's slipped...

  7. #27
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    You can self buff displacement without wasting a feat on it.
    Dragonmark elf is a great build for any new melee character that doesn't have Shroud displacement clickables yet.

    After you get those clickables, yeah not much point to it.

    My archer monk was an elf first life and the displacement dragonmarks along with Shadow Fade was huge. Decent dex and wis too. That character almost never got hurt.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
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    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Possible? Sure. But I'm not a fan of splashing monks; the capstone is just too nice, IMHO, especially since monks kinda get the short end of the stick as far as PRR goes, so getting free DR is better than none.
    I've gone the opposite way. I used to value the capstone but now, don't. 10DR is not much in eH/eE when each swing is hitting you for 30-200. The passive Ki regen can be had elsewhere. The +2 WIS is less useful if you already have a high enough DC on your Stuns/whatevers. I get my PRR from Earth, and can boost it with GMoF.

    At the moment I can't see much reason to push past 12 Monk levels, if you're Dark, except for the run speed boost. Shintao is different but I don't run Shintao at the mo.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Dragonmark elf is a great build for any new melee character that doesn't have Shroud displacement clickables yet.

    After you get those clickables, yeah not much point to it.
    Depends how fast you get from shrine to shrine, I guess. I still kept mine even after 2x Displace clickies as I could then last a long, long time displaced.

    Also, unless it's nWAI and now fixed, it's the only Displace you can still cast on others. Which is useful from time to time.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    IMHO the +1D6 SA from Assassin I isn't worth the AP cost
    I decided to go the Wis route in the end, it seems to be better overall

    That being said, aren't the poison clicky from the assassin AP interesting too? To be honest I never leveled an assassin to high level, but on paper they sound cool at least

  11. #31
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    Question question on first build post

    would the build in the first post still be workable with all the changes.

  12. #32
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The original builds still work, but I think this build I posted a couple months back is better. These days I prefer WIS-based for dark monks - both for the higher AC & DCs and for access to Vorpal Strikes; Precision got unnerfed so it's actually useful (tho haven't decided if Precision or Power Atk is better for monks); and Combat Expertise feels like overkill on a build like this - I never liked starting CON 12 just so I could grab CE. Plus the more recent build has the option of adding Void Strike IV, though it's expensive AP-wise and requires a significant enh respec.

    Should really get around to fixing the original post...

  13. #33
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    Shhhhhh don't tell anyone but just as a general observation, this flavor build is almost too good now... With AC being viable, you can cut getting hit down to something like 50% without trying hard (That's a 50% improvement over when this build was originally posted) 5 or 10 DR to scrape a little of what does make it through off. (and (edit: Physical Resistance Rating) if you have some armor or items on that improves that)

    Then you get 25% incorporeal from your Shadow Fade when you need it and then you're self casting 50% displacement for several minutes at a time. (forget clickies, having the marks rocks)

    Oh and you might very well have Dodge over 20% on top of all that. With the new AC and non-maxed 20% dodge there's a 70% decrease in hits BEFORE you hit shadow fade and displace.

    It's a good thing Monks are fast, because I'm probably going to be running your stone with my "flavor build" dragon marked Elf ninja at some point when I'm the only one left standing
    Last edited by IronClan; 10-27-2012 at 12:43 PM.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronClan View Post
    Shhhhhh don't tell anyone but just as a general observation, this flavor build is almost too good now... With AC being viable, you can cut getting hit down to something like 50% without trying hard (That's a 50% improvement over when this build was originally posted) 5 or 10 DR to scrape a little of what does make it through off. (and Damage Rating if you have some armor or items on that improves that)

    Then you get 25% incorporeal from your Shadow Fade when you need it and then you're self casting 50% displacement for several minutes at a time. (forget clickies, having the marks rocks)

    Oh and you might very well have Dodge over 20% on top of all that. With the new AC and non-maxed 20% dodge there's a 70% decrease in hits BEFORE you hit shadow fade and displace.

    It's a good thing Monks are fast, because I'm probably going to be running your stone with my "flavor build" dragon marked Elf ninja at some point when I'm the only one left standing
    My gimp banking 16 atm and rocking Gianthold. Works perfectly, I basically chug perhaps 10 serious pots per quest while playing REALLY stupid. With 10 stunning wraps and wis level ups, even red nameds go down in few seconds. So very happy with the build and good source of "I even took elven dragonmarks for more elven gimpiness" jokes after getting compliments :-D

    But I'd guess necro 4 is going to be harder.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    My gimp banking 16 atm and rocking Gianthold. Works perfectly, I basically chug perhaps 10 serious pots per quest while playing REALLY stupid. With 10 stunning wraps and wis level ups, even red nameds go down in few seconds. So very happy with the build and good source of "I even took elven dragonmarks for more elven gimpiness" jokes after getting compliments :-D

    But I'd guess necro 4 is going to be harder.
    Well, Elves aren't as horrid to look at as half-elves. I'm sure you'll make some arcane / divine friends who will let you pike through those.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    My gimp banking 16 atm and rocking Gianthold. Works perfectly, I basically chug perhaps 10 serious pots per quest while playing REALLY stupid. With 10 stunning wraps and wis level ups, even red nameds go down in few seconds. So very happy with the build and good source of "I even took elven dragonmarks for more elven gimpiness" jokes after getting compliments :-D

    But I'd guess necro 4 is going to be harder.
    Mabar wraps. don't know about Necro 4 but at 13th in early Necro and having already gotten my Minos those wraps just buzzsaw through Undead.
    You guys filibustering a new mode have already succeeded in scaring the Dev's into not doing it the right way and re-scaling the existing settings, why in the world are you still filibustering? Drunk on your success? Schadenfreude? Spitefulness?

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