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  1. #161
    Community Member bradleyforrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    No, it's based on the player with the highest level in the party.
    Wait, so if I run Shroud on level and it's with 20s I'm getting penalized because of other people? Seriously? This needs to go.

  2. #162
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    On Epic you have a 7% additional chance for drops from chests and monsters compared to Normal.
    Interesting I guess what then matters is what the average renown drop is based upon quest level. If it's not drastically higher in epic then it still makes way more sense to be running irestone inlets with vet toons.
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  3. #163
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazston_the_Invoker View Post
    If this is the case, then there is definitely an issue.

    Ran 4 GH quests yesterday on Normal/Hard with guild. Highest level player (me) was lv16 (so 3 levels over at worst) Crucible, PoP, Cry for Help and the Aurum quest, and had 0 renown end rewards, which was similar to what my guildies were stating. I think perhaps one or two dropped out of approximately 20 available end rewards.

    Afterwards, we also ran a Shroud on Hard. I was on a lv20, so again, 3 levels over. I, again, did not pull a renown end reward, though I did not wait to ask the rest of the run, since I was tired and logged immediately after.

    So, based on my results, 5 quests, no end rewards, and based upon my info from our GH runs, approx. 2 end rewards out of 20 possible. With this small sample size, it seems like the end reward drop rate for renown is closer to 0-10% than to 50%. Hopefully this info helps in whatever investigations you are doing, Madfloyd.
    Thanks, helpful and much appreciated.
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  4. #164
    Community Member Trillea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradleyforrest View Post
    Wait, so if I run Shroud on level and it's with 20s I'm getting penalized because of other people? Seriously? This needs to go.
    This is the same as the XP hit being based off the highest level in the party. Since renown is pretty much nothing more than prettified guild XP, this makes sense to me. Although I think that since you can't get XP boosts in chests, renown should be tied to quest and optional completions the same as XP is.
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  5. #165
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Interesting I guess what then matters is what the average renown drop is based upon quest level. If it's not drastically higher in epic then it still makes way more sense to be running irestone inlets with vet toons.
    No, in this case epic is treated like a difficulty level, not a CR level.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  6. #166
    Community Member zorander6's Avatar
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    BTW I do want to thank you for getting involved mad, it's nice to know that we are heard

    I look forward to improvements as I know there are a lot of people who would like an airship.

  7. #167
    Community Member shaolaolint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    No, it's based on the player with the highest level in the party.

    So, in essence, when i run my level 14 in a shroud and there are level 20s I'm screwed out of renown. Luckily, our guild can care less about renown, but these changes make me care even less. I run my level 20 Sorc in all types of quests. If i make a new toon, ill run him thru STk for the reflex goggles and whatnot, that's fine if it adds to no renown. But if I take him thru ADQ, for the 100th time because I need a Torc still and I dont get any renown, what can a level 20 do to get renown? Only epics and Amrath?

    I know I kinda rambled but I feel this whole renown thing is getting ridiculous, and hearing that accounts are getting banned because level 20s are running low level quests, and now this? It's DA all over again. Turbine wanting us to play the game their way, when we want to just play the damned thing to have fun our way, and why not, we're the ones paying.
    Cannith. Loot. Shaolo (20) - Nicodemuss (TR) - Anathos (TR) - Shaoloalint (TR) - Melowdie (20) - Nicoheals (TR) and a bunch of others.

  8. #168
    Community Member DANTEIL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    No, in this case epic is treated like a difficulty level, not a CR level.
    What is the difference between difficulty level and CR level?

    EDIT: nm, I figured it out.
    Last edited by DANTEIL; 07-22-2010 at 05:29 PM.

  9. #169
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    So rather than just keep answering questions, let me say this:

    I read all of you loud and clear. I'm not disputing what you're saying or feeling. I'm giving out info in order to find out what is working and what is not.

    Like you, I care about making renown drop in a manner that is fair. I play the game regularly and get disapointed when I don't find renown (as do many here on the dev team) so I think we all want the same thing.

    As soon as we have enough data, we can decide what needs to be done.

    Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  10. #170
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    No, in this case epic is treated like a difficulty level, not a CR level.
    Huh...

    So are you saying except for the 7% increased chance to pull renown from an epic quest compared to a normal quest the average renown per pull in lets say EPIC DQ is the same as irestone inlet?

    I get that there is an increased chance to get any renown drop in epic by 7%. I am asking if the level of the quest increases the average value of that renown when you do happen to pull it.
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  11. #171
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Huh...

    So are you saying except for the 7% increased chance to pull renown from an epic quest compared to a normal quest the average renown per pull in lets say EPIC DQ is the same as irestone inlet?

    I get that there is an increased chance to get any renown drop in epic by 7%. I am asking if the level of the quest increases the average value of that renown when you do happen to pull it.
    Yes, the level of the quest iplays a role in the average value of the renown.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  12. #172
    Community Member ccoleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodrak View Post
    The problem is that being even 1-2 levels above quest level (difficulty included in count) removes almost all renown (or at least the chances to get it are really low). If you play a low level non-TR character, there's way too much XP in the game (until you reach mid-levels and above) and even doing quests only on hard and elite and level up only when you reach XP cap, you still end up doing lots of quests ~2 levels above their proper level. Not everyone powerlevels to the endgame and then do all the other (poor xp/min) quests for favor. Many people just like doing quests at their level or close (tough quest done solo on elite with character 1-2 levels higher is that easy to not grant any renown? really?).
    Mark me down as a non-powerleveller.

    We have a purely family guild so we rarely have more than two in a party (most often just hubby and I). Consequently, we're often running quests 2 or more levels below our character level. Maybe it's just our playstyle, but running a quest at level either solo or with a minimal party almost guarantees a deathfest. I'm all for a challenge but it ceases to be fun when it just becomes die--resurrect--die--resurrect---swing--die--etc.

    When guild renown arrived, I was in a take-it-or-leave-it frame of mind but we started earning renown and I saw those little numbers adding up. Suddenly a guild airship or guild benefits didn't seem so far fetched. I even started making 'payments' for the day when we might aspire to an airship. Unfortunately, with the current penalties on renown, I fear that plat has just gone to waste.

    It's either play at level or party with non-guildies neither of which has much attraction. Just a slight easing on the renown restrictions (a lower decline or beginning it at even one level lower) would just increase enjoyment so much more and allow the smaller guilds to still benefit from the renown system.


  13. #173
    Community Member Myrddinman's Avatar
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    I seemed to have the opposite happen after the patch yesterday...

    Last night:
    New guild + new characters (Veteran Status) + 2 hours of play (Korthos, Information, Ring Leader and WW) = Guild Level 6

    It seemed that between the 4 of us, someone was always getting either Heroic Deeds, Tales of Valor (and even 1 Trophy) in almost every chest; and most got something as an End Reward choice as well.

    Perhaps it's working too well on lower levels and not so hot on upper ones?
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    there will always be bugs in DDO it will never be bug free at any point in its lifetime.

  14. #174
    Community Member bradleyforrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrddinman View Post
    I seemed to have the opposite happen after the patch yesterday...

    Last night:
    New guild + new characters (Veteran Status) + 2 hours of play (Korthos, Information, Ring Leader and WW) = Guild Level 6

    It seemed that between the 4 of us, someone was always getting either Heroic Deeds, Tales of Valor (and even 1 Trophy) in almost every chest; and most got something as an End Reward choice as well.

    Perhaps it's working too well on lower levels and not so hot on upper ones?
    That would hardly be surprising when you take into account the lack of high level content to have a chance to pull renown from.

  15. #175
    Community Member zorander6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccoleman View Post
    Mark me down as a non-powerleveller.

    We have a purely family guild so we rarely have more than two in a party (most often just hubby and I). Consequently, we're often running quests 2 or more levels below our character level. Maybe it's just our playstyle, but running a quest at level either solo or with a minimal party almost guarantees a deathfest. I'm all for a challenge but it ceases to be fun when it just becomes die--resurrect--die--resurrect---swing--die--etc.

    When guild renown arrived, I was in a take-it-or-leave-it frame of mind but we started earning renown and I saw those little numbers adding up. Suddenly a guild airship or guild benefits didn't seem so far fetched. I even started making 'payments' for the day when we might aspire to an airship. Unfortunately, with the current penalties on renown, I fear that plat has just gone to waste.

    It's either play at level or party with non-guildies neither of which has much attraction. Just a slight easing on the renown restrictions (a lower decline or beginning it at even one level lower) would just increase enjoyment so much more and allow the smaller guilds to still benefit from the renown system.

    ^^ This, my guild consists of my wife and two of our friends (one of whom isn't on but once every couple weeks as he's traveling.) We normally run together or solo and normally run quests near the level of the lowest player (level 9 currently.) My character is level 12 so I completely wipe the bonus from the guild. Currently the only resolution for us is either my wife and our friends run till they are caught up or I level up a character to their level as quickly as possible. I can't afford vet status yet so that will slow things down. :/

    *shrugs* The small guild bonus is great and all but if no one is getting guild favor then no one is getting the guild bonus either. Being forced to run at level quests or getting banned for running lower level quests for favor or completion is a little excessive. My wife and I just went VIP for access to everything and I'd still like to be able to power through a low level quest for favor (No exp and no renown is fine.)

    I dunno, I'll wait till they fix it before I worry about an airship, was going to try to get some bloodstones or something to sell to finish paying for it but not going to bother for now. Had already put plat down towards one.

  16. #176
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaodan View Post
    Um, you do realize DDO has a severe problem if you take this philosophy, right?



    Notice the problem?
    Based on your list there are 20 different quests that can be run at like-level for renown when capped. That seems like enough variety, at least on the surface.

    But I wouldn't mind a new Amrath-like high level area however, that is challenging and rewarding. (please no glorified level 14 area a la inspired quarter, that even a noob should be able to solo on elite)
    Devs: Thanks for making Druids available to VIPs without the pack. This more than anything, has made me want to buy the pack.

  17. #177
    Community Member Sker-lyn's Avatar
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    Post Question to MadFloyd

    Before ask for something that I know that can be implemented but not sure on the difficulty in DDO specially, MadFloyd...

    Is there any problem or difficulty to implement a renown for finishing a quest? That could ease the impact of this measure, make people actually do the quests and not just grind them (like enter in a quest for respawm monsters only) and capped toons could still do their usual stuff without push aside from the renown system.

    With renown awarded in the end of the quest you never see your time wasted (we all hate that) and even can make more amusing quests like Reaver's ones... maybe they are a pain in the neck and maybe you can't get the dragontouched like you want it but... hey, you get renown for the guild.

    Of course, if it's too difficult to implement or is likely gonna screw something up, I prefer you work another way... but like now is very sad and really don't reward players for playing, but for grinding specifics to get it.

    Si non confectus, non reficiat

  18. #178
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    The system As it sits now rewards only 2 groups.
    Small guilds with alt-itis are the primary Benefactor. A big bonus combined with a plethora of at level quests. The other group would be the extreme powerguilds that grind elite and epic content.

    There is a huge playerbasein between
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  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sker-lyn View Post
    Before ask for something that I know that can be implemented but not sure on the difficulty in DDO specially, MadFloyd...

    Is there any problem or difficulty to implement a renown for finishing a quest? That could ease the impact of this measure, make people actually do the quests and not just grind them (like enter in a quest for respawm monsters only) and capped toons could still do their usual stuff without push aside from the renown system.

    With renown awarded in the end of the quest you never see your time wasted (we all hate that) and even can make more amusing quests like Reaver's ones... maybe they are a pain in the neck and maybe you can't get the dragontouched like you want it but... hey, you get renown for the guild.

    Of course, if it's too difficult to implement or is likely gonna screw something up, I prefer you work another way... but like now is very sad and really don't reward players for playing, but for grinding specifics to get it.
    This is already implemented with the chance at getting renown as an option in the quest end reward. And there already is no incentive to "enter in a quest for respawm monsters only" as that is now bannable.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    So rather than just keep answering questions, let me say this:

    I read all of you loud and clear. I'm not disputing what you're saying or feeling. I'm giving out info in order to find out what is working and what is not.

    Like you, I care about making renown drop in a manner that is fair. I play the game regularly and get disapointed when I don't find renown (as do many here on the dev team) so I think we all want the same thing.

    As soon as we have enough data, we can decide what needs to be done.

    Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences.
    I have been reading, and appreciate the input by Madfloyd so much so, I HAVE to break my silence here.

    1) Basing the renowned drop with relatively the same system as loot is a mistake.
    Renowned is not, and NEVER should be put in the same category as loot.

    2) I have been tracking the numbers in-game for renowned, and it's quite obvious that we saw larger drops when Update 5 went live, and has decreased to the current level. Which is understandable. If you had only a few weeks of the system running on Lamania.
    You are saying, you are tweaking the system. Great! But the problem is...
    You released it before working out all the bugs/ issues whatever.
    We appreciate the fact you are trying to give us content in a timely manner, but releasing "broken" content is not how most companies operate!

    3) There are SERIOUS flaws with the renowned system, and drop rate & using the loot table element in no way compare the to the decay system!

    That being said; (decay) should be taken out of the renowned system completely. I am a member of a larger guild, our lvl is 36, and the leader is taking steps to implement a sub guild, to have our casual members be "parked" in it, so only the "active" members are counting to the automatic decay.
    Sounds crazy, but it is the only option we have to combat decay.

    Answer us this question Madfloyd.
    What is the REAL purpose of decay?

    Why is Turbine pushing us to grind for renowned?
    Why can't we just have the renowned without decay?
    NOT ONE player in their right mind can say decay is a good idea.

    Having a lousy drop rate is a lot easier for us to handle as a community than DECAY.

    I have said all along renowned is bad for the game, and the continuing application of decay is living proof of it.

    Thanks for replying to everyone's posts' Madfloyd, it is exactly what we need from the staff.
    We are your fans, and play the game knowing there are bugs in certain areas.
    It is the actions you are taking by posting here that "ease" our frustrations.


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