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  1. #21
    Community Member ArgentMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    At a decay rate of 1 point per day per account, if 50 people dont log in today and 1 player does, all they have to do is pull one 50 guild point end reward.
    But it's not. The way I understand it is that decay accelerates as guild level increases.
    For a large guild like ours, where, say, 75% of the membership is not active on
    any particular day, then that's 600-700 times the decay rate. We'll have to see
    what happens.

    Anyway, since 25 is the floor, and you still get access to a good deal of guild stuff
    at 25, I see no reason for some small truly casual guilds to get there and then not
    worry about it.

  2. #22
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    This is what I'm talking about, yes, and am saying that it's ridiculously pointless.



    These guilds are doomed to be progressing way too slowly, for the simple reason of not being as active as others.
    Having less active players collecting renown is punishment enough, why in the holy heck do these guilds need to be punished further???

    I just don't get it. Is it opposite day in Sense Town?


    The only way this system would make sense if bigger decays would be given, starting 6 months of inactivity. Because just because a guild has 20 members who hadn't played for 2 months doesn't mean it's a worthless bunch of idiots who deserve to be demoted to Guild Lvl 24, nor should the guild leader be forced to kick these 20 players to be able to get a bigger ship.
    While players with 6 months of inactivity would most probably not care about getting kicked anyway.
    Turbine supposedly fixed the small guild bonus now, so that smaller guilds can get renown faster. Also renown decay is supposed to be guild sized based, i.e. it decays faster for larger guilds.

    While you're declaring that guild =/= power gamer, you apparently want to be in a big guild with all the perks, then you should put all your characters into to same guild and be prepared to deal with their rules.

    Personally, there's about 6 or 7 actual people in my current guild. Most of us left a larger guild due to issues with other players (this was well before I5). All of us were offered chance(s) to go to larger guilds and turned them down. We really aren't all that worried about the system, our leader has made a choice not to recruit and so be it. I'm fine with that personally, if I change my mind, I'll nicely explain so and go to one of the guilds I routinely play with anyways.

  3. #23
    Community Member jwdaniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    I mean the whole thing doesn't even make sense from a role play aspect either.
    There's really nothing RP about the guild renown mechanic - opening more boxes gets you more renown which gets you better buffs...

    Guild renown is a powergamer mechanic for players that are always looking to eke out one more +1 to their DPS. It doesn't hurt in any way for those guilds that choose not to alter their behavior (at worst you might get some small benefit for doing stuff you were doing anyway) because, ultimately, it really doesn't matter to you what level everyone else's guild is.

    There are guilds out there filled with mature, adult players that are willing to accept that you have real life things and can't log in all the time and keep you around regardless of what it does to their renown decy.

  4. #24
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP that this really discourages guilds that have players which belong to multiple guilds from doing so in the future especially guilds that are interested in getting small guild renown awards. My guild is going to have to boot some members or face a severe penalty.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  5. #25
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwdaniels View Post
    it really doesn't matter to you what level everyone else's guild is.
    Not to me, no.
    But it does to all the people who chose to kick me instead of dealing with the decay.

    On my end, I see nothing but unforeseen kicks coming from the decay system. If it happened to do something good to someone I'd like to hear it, because it just made my social interacting that much harder. I feel like I'm forced into a concentration camp for people who don't play much, sealed away from the other guilds who incidentally CAN offer me a devils battlefield run any time of the day and whom have a shinier and more comfortable toilet.
    Last edited by TekkenDevil; 07-21-2010 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #26
    Community Member jwdaniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    Not to me, no.
    But it does to all the people who chose to kick me instead of dealing with the decay.

    On my end, I see nothing but unforeseen kicks coming from the decay system. If it happened to do something good to someone I'd like to hear it, because it just made my social interacting that much harder. I feel like I'm forced into a concentration camp for people who don't play much, sealed away from the other guilds who incidentally CAN offer me a devils battlefield run any time of the day.
    My friends and I formed a guild, and we play pretty much every night. We've added a few people over the months we've been playing, and not all of them log in every day, or even every week. We're cool with that. We formed the guild to have fun and find people we like to play with. If we end up with some neat perks from playing the way we want to play, awesome, but we're certainly not going to spend time grinding out renown - DDO isn't a second job.

  7. #27
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgentMage View Post
    But it's not. The way I understand it is that decay accelerates as guild level increases.
    For a large guild like ours, where, say, 75% of the membership is not active on
    any particular day, then that's 600-700 times the decay rate. We'll have to see
    what happens.

    Anyway, since 25 is the floor, and you still get access to a good deal of guild stuff
    at 25, I see no reason for some small truly casual guilds to get there and then not
    worry about it.
    How many points does your guild lose per day, and how many members are there? It would be good to see some metrics on that. I was under the impression that it was 1 point per account per day of not logging in.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #28
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwdaniels View Post
    My friends and I formed a guild, and we play pretty much every night. We've added a few people over the months we've been playing, and not all of them log in every day, or even every week. We're cool with that. We formed the guild to have fun and find people we like to play with. If we end up with some neat perks from playing the way we want to play, awesome, but we're certainly not going to spend time grinding out renown - DDO isn't a second job.
    So there's always people running any adventure pack in your guild? I could ask if someone is running or feel like running shan-to-kor or sorrowdusk and someone would respond instantly? Just like the big guilds?


    Before the system, you could have a 1000 active to 1000 not so active ratio and still be called active. There was always something to do and people could log in once a week if they wanted to, run an adventure of their choice with guildies and leave. Now those people are most probably all kicked and are forced to join lesser active groups that don't mind inactivity. How are these guys supposed to do any endgame questing with their guilds? Set-up for them has slowed down drastically, and it could take 2 hours to get a party going, because there's bound to be less guild activity.
    Last edited by TekkenDevil; 07-21-2010 at 11:40 AM.

  9. #29
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwdaniels View Post
    My friends and I formed a guild, and we play pretty much every night. We've added a few people over the months we've been playing, and not all of them log in every day, or even every week. We're cool with that. We formed the guild to have fun and find people we like to play with. If we end up with some neat perks from playing the way we want to play, awesome, but we're certainly not going to spend time grinding out renown - DDO isn't a second job.
    Yeap exactly. I have played the other MMOs where people want to turn the game into work, and require you to be logged into the game 6 hours minimum and have at least so many capped toons etc. Aint gonna do it.

    I dont have a World of Warcraft account, I have a life. - From the South Park Episode.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #30
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Even before guild airships were implemented, our guild still has a policy that if you were inactive for two months, you would be automatically booted. HOWEVER, should you be booted because of inactivity, you would get a sigil in the mail that would allow you to rejoin when you get back. Overall, it wasn't really a bad thing at all; most players usually log in within 2 months, and if they don't, they can always rejoin when they check their mail.

    If a guild has a policy of booting players due to inactivity, they should give them the option to rejoin when they log back in. It seems like a nice way to keep a guild's members in by allowing 'casual' players back in when they take their break. Plus, if the guild is heavy on getting renown, its better for the guild because they don't have to worry about players logging in just to extend their 'time' from being booted, and thus not contributing to renown as much, as well as adding to the decay factor.
    Last edited by knightgf; 07-21-2010 at 11:44 AM.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  11. #31
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    Not to me, no.
    But it does to all the people who chose to kick me instead of dealing with the decay.

    On my end, I see nothing but unforeseen kicks coming from the decay system. If it happened to do something good to someone I'd like to hear it, because it just made my social interacting that much harder. I feel like I'm forced into a concentration camp for people who don't play much, sealed away from the other guilds who incidentally CAN offer me a devils battlefield run any time of the day and whom have a shinier and more comfortable toilet.
    Really? I still continally pug with larger guilds then mine. Every time I'm on my higher level character I can grab a pug spot.

    If you need a devils batttlefield run, why don't you start a group yourself? Why do you have to rely on others to start it for you?

  12. #32
    Community Member jwdaniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    So there's always people running any adventure pack in your guild? I could ask if someone is running or feel like running shan-to-kor or sorrowdusk and someone would respond instantly? Just like the big guilds?
    Between 9 PMish and 1 AMish Eastern time, when we're most active, you will find probably 8 or so of us on at any given time. If you pop in and ask "Anyone feel like running STK or sorrowdusk" your responses will most likely be either "Sure, sounds like fun," "I don't have that pack," or "I'm in the middle of Necro/Sands/Threnal/etc., can we do it later?" I think that's pretty typical.

    We're all pretty flexible people, and since the point is to group together and have fun if someone has a particular thing they really want to do then that is generally what most or all of us end up doing. We all try to keep alts in various level ranges and don't always level up as soon as possible in order to facilitate grouping together, and even started what is a nearly fixed group to run together from the beginning, but only on nights when we all feel like doing that.

    If that sounds like fun and you play on Sarlona, let me know.

  13. #33
    Community Member gott_ist_tot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schroebj13 View Post
    This is not a Turbine thing, it is a guild thing. I agree with OP, find a guild that doesn't mind your play style. They are out there
    Turbine encourages, some would even say enforces kicking inactive players by penalizing the guild for having less than 24/7 active players in the guild. If renown decay is 70 * playerbase * guild level per day (as some report)... It simply means guild goes down towards a lower level if you don't grind 7000 * playerbase renown per fricking day at level 100. On each player in guild. Yeah, not a Turbine thing.

  14. #34
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordPiglet View Post
    Really? I still continally pug with larger guilds then mine. Every time I'm on my higher level character I can grab a pug spot.

    If you need a devils batttlefield run, why don't you start a group yourself? Why do you have to rely on others to start it for you?
    Because I'm not familiar enough with most of the endgame stuff to make a good leader, and if I promote someone in a party I might as well just join one of them. And as I said, public parties at end game suck and are usually boring and miserable. Filled with people whom don't talk at all and are always grumpy about everything.
    Last edited by TekkenDevil; 07-21-2010 at 11:46 AM.

  15. #35
    Community Member TekkenDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwdaniels View Post
    Between 9 PMish and 1 AMish Eastern time, when we're most active, you will find probably 8 or so of us on at any given time. If you pop in and ask "Anyone feel like running STK or sorrowdusk" your responses will most likely be either "Sure, sounds like fun," "I don't have that pack," or "I'm in the middle of Necro/Sands/Threnal/etc., can we do it later?" I think that's pretty typical.

    We're all pretty flexible people, and since the point is to group together and have fun if someone has a particular thing they really want to do then that is generally what most or all of us end up doing. We all try to keep alts in various level ranges and don't always level up as soon as possible in order to facilitate grouping together, and even started what is a nearly fixed group to run together from the beginning, but only on nights when we all feel like doing that.

    If that sounds like fun and you play on Sarlona, let me know.
    Well I doubt every single guild is like that, anyway I'm done debating this topic I made my point, 9 out of 10 disagree, I'll just make more solo builds for endgame content. Way too much work to get fun parties for these quests.
    Last edited by TekkenDevil; 07-21-2010 at 11:51 AM.

  16. #36
    Community Member ArgentMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    How many points does your guild lose per day, and how many members are there? It would be good to see some metrics on that. I was under the impression that it was 1 point per account per day of not logging in.
    It's hard to measure because the guild is so active. The only way to be sure would
    be to have no one log on for a specific 24-hour period and measure it, I guess.
    We're currently at about 800 members, if memory serves.

    Also, I'm sure they're going to "tune" it some more, as they just did with small guilds,
    so it might be too soon to say, anyway. Certainly, as we start to see guilds get into
    the 50s and 60s, things should get more "interesting".

  17. #37
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekkenDevil View Post
    I joined 3 guilds so far with different toons.

    1 has kicked a toon for not being active daily, the second one has kicked another one for not being online for 3 days, and another has just posted that all members unactive for a month will be kicked.

    <snip>

    These guilds are doomed to be progressing way too slowly, for the simple reason of not being as active as others.
    Because I'm not familiar enough with most of the endgame stuff to make a good leader, and if I promote someone in a party I might as well just join one of them. And as I said, public parties at end game suck and are usually boring and miserable. Filled with people whom don't talk at all and are always grumpy about everything.
    So what you want is a large, high level guild that is highly active that you can set your alternate, mainly inactive characters in? Just so that you have a built in pool for high level groups where you don't have to actually help anyone, just jump online whenever your /quest timers are off cooldown?

    I don't think that the problem here is with DDO, Guild Renown, or any other game mechanic.

  18. #38
    Community Member Rubiconn's Avatar
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    The decay rate being account based doesnt make sense because if you logged in and played your toon in guild #1 you would get credit for logging into all the others. If the decay is based on toons thenif you are inactive you are subject to decay.

    I would like the decay to be based on weekly, if on friday people are inactive over a week the guild is hit with decay based on the number of toons * guild level - active toons * guild level or something like that.

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