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  1. #1
    Community Member Goldeneye's Avatar
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    Default MinII vs. LitII (u5)

    This topic comes up again, and again, however most of the forums posts on this subject are at least a year old, and use shroud as their example of end-game content. I haven't really payed attention to how MinII compared w/ LitII in the new content.

    MinII:
    • Holy
    • Acid Burst
    • Acid Blast
    • Slicing 1d4


    pro: Breaks DR
    con: Many bosses resistant to acid

    LitII:
    • Holy
    • Shock Burst
    • Shock Blast
    • Lighting Strike ~550-600, 2%


    pro: lighting strike
    pro: no resistance to electric on many bosses
    con: doesn't break boss DR

    As far as I understand, the benefit of MinII over LitII, is when an enemies' DR, (that isn't bypasses by LitII), exceeds 20. Taking into account the current end-game content, and possible future content, how does the MinII, compare to LitII?
    Last edited by Goldeneye; 08-06-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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  2. #2
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Min 2 Pro: +2 Con (and therefore 20 HP) that you don't have to put on a ToD ring.

  3. #3
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    im only one voice, but i do prefer my lightning's over my minerals, just because most have no electrical resistance. i dont see spending the larges to make a wep that breaks dr, but acid resistance kills a whole tier of the weapon. when i want to break dr, ill use a regular metalline of pg. less expensive, same result.
    my lightning's i like to make shock, good, shock. some things have dr against plain holy to go for the extra 1d6 damage, when the good burst will proc and outdo any damage the holy will. add in a good day for damage rolls...and a lightnings damage numbers, imo, will outdo the minerals damage numbers simply because of the resistance to acid. but thats just me

    i have made one mineral 2 greataxe, and 12 lightning weps. i only use the mineral for a stoneskin clicky, and only when my lightning gets broken first
    Last edited by woundweaver; 07-19-2010 at 12:52 PM.
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  4. #4
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    The other factors are glancing blows (favors Min 2 against foes with DR), electrical immunity (Lailat only, favors Min 2), and whether or not you own good other DR breakers.

    Here's the comparison. A 'modest amount' is about 5 damage per swing. A 'long way' is close to 10 damage per swing. A weapon outclasses another if it is noticeably more than 10 damage per swing ahead.

    Raids:

    Pit Fiend Raids, Normal: Lit 2 superior by a modest amount
    Pit Fiend Raids, Hard: Min 2 superior by a modest amount
    Pit Fiend Raids, Elite: Min 2 outclasses Lit 2
    Epic Lailat: Min 2 outclasses Lit 2
    Epic Velah: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
    Abbot: Not important, DPS plays only a minor role in this raid
    Hound: Not important, DPS is extremely unimportant in this raid

    Tough Quests:

    Amrath Elite: Lit 2 ahead by a long way
    Epic OOB: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
    Epic Wiz-King: Blunt is the key here, both are pretty bad unless blunt.
    Epic VON1-3: Lit 2 outclasses Min 2
    Epic Big Top: Not sure, haven't tested Malicia's susceptability to various elements, nor her DR.
    Epic Sentinels: Run too little of it to know.

    Levelling a TR:

    In general, Lit 2 outclasses Min 2 as DR is rare.
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  5. #5
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woundweaver View Post
    im only one voice, but i do prefer my lightning's over my minerals, just because most have no electrical resistance. i dont see spending the larges to make a wep that breaks dr, but acid resistance kills a whole tier of the weapon. when i want to break dr, ill use a regular metalline of pg. less expensive, same result.
    my lightning's i like to make shock, good, shock. some things have dr against plain holy to go for the extra 1d6 damage, when the good burst will proc and outdo any damage the holy will. add in a good day for damage rolls...and a lightnings damage numbers, imo, will outdo the minerals damage numbers simply because of the resistance to acid. but thats just me
    Holy Shocking Burst is far, far ahead of Shock Goodburst.

    Shocking Burst is always better than Shock, and Holy is better average damage than Goodburst against every boss that is even remotely challenging (except I believe Epic Arach's Knight, but that is something you will NOT use a Lit 2 on, ever).
    I don't have a zerging problem.

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  6. #6
    Community Member Goldeneye's Avatar
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    Thanks guys - Very helpful!
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  7. #7
    Community Member Goldeneye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gol View Post
    Min 2 Pro: +2 Con (and therefore 20 HP) that you don't have to put on a ToD ring.
    Where are you getting the +2 con from? Are you crafting it on tier3 instead of Acid Blast?
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  8. #8
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    yeah, i understand the difference. i just said my personal choice was to have good burst instead of holy, due to some bosses have dr against holy. granted not all of them, but there are more of them than there are resistant to electricity. i know holy does 2d6, instead of the 1d6. it is good for skellies and undead, i guess, but i personally like the good burst damage numbers over the damage for the holy, which is substituted nicely with plain ole shock for tier 1. and even then, the good burst is gonna do more per swing than that extra possible 6 to damage, even to undead. then, you get the best of both worlds. but as i said, its just me and my personal preference. im not a number cruncher to compare point for point. but i do have lightnings made holy, shock, shock and i prefer my shock, good, shock over those. bigger numbers on my screen per swing, excluding lightning strikes, and for me, its all about the bigger numbers overall, not just situational
    Last edited by woundweaver; 07-19-2010 at 01:11 PM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member moops's Avatar
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    With the changes in U5, namely no lag kills--people on my server have been running Shroud on HArd and Elite more, and TOD on hard and elite more--and of course VOD has always been run on elite. And in most these raids and much of the high end non epic content, people are still using vorpals to kill trash--like Sins Elite and IQ quests.

    In Epic trash Im still using weighted, but I don't run them that much and most of the time, Im just going in at the end to get chests.

    Only time I use my Lightning 2's is on a normal raid run and on the Orthons in TOD/VOD or an Epic Red Name--and Min 2's work just fine on those as well. When I tank Sulu on my Ranger I use my Min 2's usually not my lightnings as the DPS seems more consistent, but other people might have better luck with Light 2 going off.

    If you can only make one set, I'd say Min 2. My Kensai gets by fine with just a Set of Min 2s and a set of Vorpals.
    Last edited by moops; 07-19-2010 at 01:19 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldeneye View Post
    Where are you getting the +2 con from? Are you crafting it on tier3 instead of Acid Blast?
    prolly, because of the resistance to acid. alot of people do. i can see putting a stat on an item.....but on a weapon? no way would i ever, because a weapon isnt a weapon if it isnt doing damage. take a tier away from a burst for a stat is just a waste of larges to me on a weapon
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldeneye View Post
    Where are you getting the +2 con from? Are you crafting it on tier3 instead of Acid Blast?
    Yah a lot of people do this on their 3rd tier as acid blast is pretty weak and considering the immunities is a nice choice for at least 1 if your dualing min2s.

  12. #12
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Levelling a TR:

    In general, Lit 2 outclasses Min 2 as DR is rare.
    This really depends on the HP total of the mobs. Low HP totals will favor the small bonus damage on every hit from the Min II. Plus the chance of the lightning strike actually contributing meaningfully goes down as HP totals are lowered.
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  13. #13
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    And of course....

    Paladin holy sword replaces Min2 in all currently applicable activities. So, make Lit2 weapons first or only.

    However, it is possible that some day, some where, an encounter will be designed that they don't replace.

  14. #14
    Founder Gol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woundweaver View Post
    prolly, because of the resistance to acid. alot of people do. i can see putting a stat on an item.....but on a weapon? no way would i ever, because a weapon isnt a weapon if it isnt doing damage. take a tier away from a burst for a stat is just a waste of larges to me on a weapon
    Thing is, it's entirely reasonable to only craft one set or the other, but not both. If you're making mineral 2 to be your primary melee weapon(s), as many people do, then +2 Con makes a whole lot of sense. If you're making both or don't plan to use Min 2s as your "default" weapon(s), then yeah, it's rather pointless.

  15. #15
    Community Member Goldeneye's Avatar
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    In terms of tier3, +2 con, I could understand why someone would do that.

    However, my rogue (w/ 2 MinIIs) runs very often w/ monks, and melees w. strong Stun DC's - personally I would never give up that extra damage.

    thanks moops, sirgog, woundweaver and everyone else. very helpful
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  16. #16
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenalth View Post
    This really depends on the HP total of the mobs. Low HP totals will favor the small bonus damage on every hit from the Min II. Plus the chance of the lightning strike actually contributing meaningfully goes down as HP totals are lowered.
    They still contribute quite a bit of extra damage. Most of the time spent levelling a TR is in the 16+ range, and the mobs you are facing there generally have enough HP that while Lightning Strike may not deal them an average 600 damage, it will be dealing an average of, say, 400.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Maenshae's Avatar
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    i got triple pos maul, min2 greataxe allrdy and thinking about making a lightning2 greataxe.
    question is now, is it really worth to do it, or is lightning2 more or less twf only useful?

  18. #18
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woundweaver View Post
    prolly, because of the resistance to acid. alot of people do. i can see putting a stat on an item.....but on a weapon? no way would i ever, because a weapon isnt a weapon if it isnt doing damage. take a tier away from a burst for a stat is just a waste of larges to me on a weapon
    Some builds are very tight on gear slots and stat points. I can understand putting +2 con, or +4 insight, or +2 wisdom depending on the build in a lot of circumstances. I have several alts that utilize this and the damage difference is negligible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    Some builds are very tight on gear slots and stat points. I can understand putting +2 con, or +4 insight, or +2 wisdom depending on the build in a lot of circumstances. I have several alts that utilize this and the damage difference is negligible.
    This.
    Not like Acid Blast is good or anything.

  20. #20
    Community Member Dylos_Moon's Avatar
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    Lightning II will be much more powerful in the U6 underwater content, as electrical damage is amplified while under the water. Also I believe that other then the optional boss, nothing in the dungeon has DR (maybe the water elementals). But still, a double damage lightning strike will be hard to pass up in Epic content.
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