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  1. #1
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Default Helli the Hellacious Hammerin' Halflin'

    HHHH -- pronounced "Quad H" -- for short.

    I created this build a while back for a friend who preferred solo and was a martial arts fanatic. Then I decided I liked it so much I made my own. Helli has turned out to be the strongest melee-based solo build I've ever played. A good example is I was able to solo Co6 as a level 7, with no Hirelings, no deaths, only moderate twinkage -- and without using a single shrine.

    But I also wanted this build to have at least SOME utility to a group, and I think it does, with good (but not excellent) DPS, very solid defenses, decent Stunning Blow DC, trash-worthy Intimidate, and so much Dragonmarkage as to be a fairly legit backup healer.

    Target Audience: 32-point soloers with any level of resources. Note that this build doesn't actually require a single Tome until just before level 19 (+2 INT). (That wasn't by design, but it happened that way.) A +1 INT Tome is nice early for skill points, though.
    Shameless plug: If you are interested in this build, there's a chance you may be interested in a new guild for the self-sufficient: Brotherhood of BYOH

    Build Goals
    - Soloability via:
    -- good DPS
    -- good AC and saves
    -- excellent self-healing
    -- tremendous self-sufficiency with arcane wand access and end-game UMD
    - Stunning Blow of use to an Epic party
    - Trash-worthy aggro control

    Weaknesses
    - A bit too much of a generalist to be truly optimal in group play (but still better than "random builds")

    Questions I anticipate
    - Is the Wizard level really worth it? Absolutely -- seriously don't build this without it. It unlocks the metamagics (absolutely essential to the build concept) and conveniently gives you one as a bonus feat. It also unlocks a lot of wands, and actually gives you two handy spells (Expeditous Retreat and Shield). But moreover, Fighter 13 and Monk 8 offer very little, so it's more a question of what 3rd class, and Wizard is a pretty clear winner.

    HHHH
    Halfling Fighter 12/Monk 7/Wizard 1
    Lawful Good (or Lawful Neutral)
    STR 13 [8] + 5 bumps + 3 Tome + 3 Fighter enh + 6 item + 8 Kensai + 2 exc = 40
    DEX 17 [8] + 3 Tome + 2 Halfling enh + 6 item + 2 Wind Stance = 30
    WIS 15 [8] + 3 Tome + 2 Monk enh + 6 item + 2 exc = 28
    CON 13 [5] + 3 Tome + 6 item - 2 Wind Stance = 20
    INT 11 [3] + 2 Tome = 13
    CHA 8 [0] + 2 Tome + 6 item = 16

    Feats and leveling sequence
    1 Monk 1. Dragonmark I. MBF: Toughness
    2 Fighter 1. FBF: TWF
    3 Wizard 1. Empower. WBF: Maximize
    4 Fighter 2. FBF: Focus: Bludgeoning
    5 Monk 2. MBF: PA
    6 Monk 3. Dragonmark II. Monk path: Light
    7 Fighter 3.
    8 Fighter 4. FBF: Spec: Bludgeoning
    9 Fighter 5. Dragonmark III
    10 Fighter 6. FBF: iTWF
    11 Fighter 7
    12 Fighter 8. Stunning Blow. FBF: Dodge
    13 Fighter 9
    14 Fighter 10. FBF: gTWF
    15 Fighter 11. iCrit: Bludgeoning
    16 Fighter 12. FBF: gFocus
    17 Monk 4.
    18 Monk 5. gSpec
    19 Monk 6. MBF: CE
    20 Monk.


    Enhancements (in no particular order)
    1 Halfling Cunning I
    1 Halfling Guile I
    6 Halfling Dex II
    3 Racial Toughness II
    10 Extra Dragonmark Use IV
    1 Way of the Hit Points I
    6 Monk WIS II
    6 Monk Improved Recovery II
    10 Fighter Haste Boost IV
    3 Fighter Attack Boost II (Kensai)
    3 Fighter Critical Accuracy II (Kensai)
    6 Fighter Kensai II
    2 Kensai Unarmed Mastery II
    2 Monk Adept of Wind
    3 Fighter Toughness II
    1 Fighter Unarmed Mastery I
    3 Fighter Stunning Blow II
    12 Fighter STR III
    1 Halfling Reflex I (EDITED)
    ---
    80

    This build was planned before Ninja Spy, but I tend to think that doesn't make that much sense here anyhow -- if I had more points I'd go for more Halfling SA. EDIT: I was forced to drop the Fighter Extra Action Boost because I forgot Adept of Wind in the original post. Enhancements are really tight here -- I could see some pretty distinctive variants by altering the enhancement list.


    Skills
    Thanks to the CE INT requirement, this build kinda accidentally gets some skills, which can come in quite handy.
    Full ranks: Concentration, Intimidate, UMD [1/2 since not a class skill], Spot.
    Spare ranks: Balance, Jump


    AC
    10 base
    1 Halfling
    1 alchemical
    4 Icy Raiment
    8 Armored Bracers
    10 DEX
    9 WIS
    5 Prot
    3 Bark
    2 Monk
    1 Haste
    1 Dodge
    4 Shield (no fail from wand)
    ---
    59 "standard"

    All-out defensive mode (probably not really used that much, but great when you need it)
    5 CE
    3 Dodge
    4 Insight
    2 Double DEX potions
    2 Double WIS potions
    ---
    75 "as the tank"

    Party buffs
    +5 aura
    +2 Barkskin
    2 Recitation
    4 Song
    ---
    88 ultra-decked out Raid tank mode


    Saves
    Fighter 12: 8/4/4
    Kensai II: 2/2/2
    Monk 7: 5/5/5
    Wiz 1: 0/0/2
    Stats (without potions): 5/10/9
    Halfling: 1/1/1
    GH: 4/4/4
    Resist: 5/5/5
    luck: 2/2/2
    enh: 0/1/0
    alchemical: 1/1/1
    ---
    33/35/35

    All tanking targets are hit (30/35/30). (This was a slight edit from my original post. Phidius helped me get there.)


    Hit Points
    20 base
    120 Fighter
    100 CON
    56 Monk
    4 Wizard
    23 Toughness
    5 Monk enh
    40 Toughness enhancements
    20 Minos
    10 Gianthold favor
    ---
    408 "easy base"

    uberer stuff
    40 Double CON potions
    45 greensteel item
    30 False Life
    ---
    523 "all geared up"

    All out for HP
    40 Earth Stance instead of Wind Stance
    40 double raged
    20 Exceptional CON +2 item
    ---
    623 "mad as hell"

    I'd rate hit points as almost a weakpoint, but when you must have them you can get them.


    Total Self-Healing Potential
    9 Cure Light for ((d6+2)+5) * 2.5 Max/Emp * 1.5 Devotion * 1.2 Monk Recovery * 1.1*1.2*1.3 uber equipment = 81 each; total 729
    7 Cure Serious for (3(d6+2)+15) * 2.5 * 1.5 * 1.2 * 1.1*1.2*1.3 = 243 each; total 1701
    6 Heal for 150 * 1.5 * 1.2 * 1.1*1.2*1.3 = 463 each; total 2780

    Grand total: 5,210 HP per rest This is kind of a lie, though, as 463 point Heals will generally blow the top off your HP bar. Nice problem to have.

    Have fun soloin' the castle!
    Last edited by Thanimal; 07-09-2010 at 09:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    Very cool. I actually started a build much like this over the weekend, and you're totally right: it's awesome. One minor difference is that I chose FvS instead of Wizard. I wanted the extra saves, and felt I had enough feats.

    Your build, however, makes me want to rethink my choice. Hrm.

    And I ran up to Ninja Spy I ASAP. It's fantastic, particularly Shadow Fade. Then again, I also have more of a focus on stealth. And shortswords aren't too shabby either. Then again, ToD doesn't work with weapons, so that's another trade-off, I guess.

    More food for thought for me.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanimal View Post
    HHHH -- pronounced "Quad H" -- for short.

    Total Self-Healing Potential
    9 Cure Light for ((d6+2)+5) * 2.5 Max/Emp * 1.5 Devotion * 1.2 Monk Recovery * 1.1*1.2*1.3 uber equipment = 81 each; total 729
    7 Cure Serious for (3(d6+2)+15) * 2.5 * 1.5 * 1.2 * 1.1*1.2*1.3 = 243 each; total 1701
    6 Heal for 150 * 1.5 * 1.2 * 1.1*1.2*1.3 = 463 each; total 2780
    You forgot " * 1.25" for the Jidz-Tet'ka bracers! This is a borderline technicality, since you'll be in Wind Stance most of the time while soloing -- but, I've started hitting Fire Stance more and more while hasted on my Wiz/Monk, and I suspect the additional healing amp and ki generation might just be worth it anytime this build parties with an arcane, or anytime it happens to find itself in a raid where AC is of marginal use. So, I think including the bracers as part of the "theoretical max" is legit....
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  4. #4
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kreestopearq View Post
    Very cool. I actually started a build much like this over the weekend, and you're totally right: it's awesome. One minor difference is that I chose FvS instead of Wizard. I wanted the extra saves, and felt I had enough feats.

    Your build, however, makes me want to rethink my choice. Hrm.
    FvS should be great, but I think Wizard is narrowly better. There's not a feat on this build I'm willing to drop. And arcane stuff is more useful to round out this build.

    And shortswords aren't too shabby either.
    Actually, long term shortsword are rather shabby. Not close to unarmed on DPS for a build like this.

    Then again, ToD doesn't work with weapons, so that's another trade-off, I guess.
    This build can't fit ToD -- that requires 9 Monk levels. This build goes the Kensai direction instead to get its DPS up.

    More food for thought for me.
    That's the fun part!
    Last edited by Thanimal; 07-07-2010 at 04:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    You forgot " * 1.25" for the Jidz-Tet'ka bracers! This is a borderline technicality, since you'll be in Wind Stance most of the time while soloing -- but, I've started hitting Fire Stance more and more while hasted on my Wiz/Monk, and I suspect the additional healing amp and ki generation might just be worth it anytime this build parties with an arcane, or anytime it happens to find itself in a raid where AC is of marginal use. So, I think including the bracers as part of the "theoretical max" is legit....
    6500ish then?

    Let's just go with A LOT.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanimal View Post
    Note that this build doesn't actually require a single Tome until level 20 (+2 INT).
    I think you mean lvl 19, since that's when you take CE as your lvl 6 monk bonus feat. [Or rather lvl 18, since you have to take the tome before leveling, right?]

    I like the idea behind this build. I have a halfling pure monk who isn't getting as much out of his Dragonmarks as I would like; was wondering if it would be worth splashing a caster class just to get metamagic(s).

    Would it be worth considering a cleric (or FvS) splash instead of wizard? You give up your free metamagic and arcane wands; but can take Empower Heal (which is the only meta which boosts the Greater `mark IIRC) and get divine wands instead. Doesn't look like you're hurting for feats, either.

  7. #7
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I think you mean lvl 19, since that's when you take CE as your lvl 6 monk bonus feat. [Or rather lvl 18, since you have to take the tome before leveling, right?]
    Whoops! Thanks for the good catch. (+1 rep)

    I like the idea behind this build. I have a halfling pure monk who isn't getting as much out of his Dragonmarks as I would like; was wondering if it would be worth splashing a caster class just to get metamagic(s).
    I'd give that a flat Yes. Now go beg cforce to publish his awesome Halfling Monk 18/Rogue 1/Wizard 1 build!

    Would it be worth considering a cleric (or FvS) splash instead of wizard? You give up your free metamagic and arcane wands; but can take Empower Heal (which is the only meta which boosts the Greater `mark IIRC) and get divine wands instead. Doesn't look like you're hurting for feats, either.
    Actually, I think I am pretty darn tight on feats. I actually started by listing out the feats that I needed for this general idea, and I listed all 18 of the feats that are currently in this build.

    You're absolutely right about the Greater Mark, but long term enhancing that further is a no-op because you don't have enough Hit Points in total to take advantage! That would only be valuable when backup-healing a Barbarian. Hopefully a VERY rare situation...

  8. #8
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    Nice build, looks like a Dragon Marked version of the Beotch Slapper.

    I am going to echo some of the sentiments of the other posters, going wizard for this build is not ideal.

    If you are not going to take ninja spy (and I assume not because you will want healing ki finisher and healing curse), there is nothing pressing you to take the dodge feat. 58 vs. 59 ac won't matter in the long run.

    By instead taking Favored Soul, you get Cure Light Wounds, and enough mana to make it worth while with all of your other amplifications, you can take empower healing instead of straight empower, you get divine favor +1/+1 as a constant clickie buff, better saves, and devo 1 to give 10% healing amp to all you do.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Star View Post
    Nice build, looks like a Dragon Marked version of the Beotch Slapper.
    Yep. You may recall that I published my original Hammer on the same day, and the Monkster is also very similar. For soloing, this build smashes those. For end-game Raiding, it typically loses to all three.

    I am going to echo some of the sentiments of the other posters, going wizard for this build is not ideal.

    If you are not going to take ninja spy (and I assume not because you will want healing ki finisher and healing curse), there is nothing pressing you to take the dodge feat. 58 vs. 59 ac won't matter in the long run.

    By instead taking Favored Soul, you get Cure Light Wounds, and enough mana to make it worth while with all of your other amplifications, you can take empower healing instead of straight empower, you get divine favor +1/+1 as a constant clickie buff, better saves, and devo 1 to give 10% healing amp to all you do.
    These are all good points, and if anybody builds this with FvS, I endorse that option. But you haven't convinced me that it's "better" -- to me it just targets a different audience. Personally, I'd take 1 point of AC *alone* over everything you listed -- AC is often the limiting factor for melee-based soloing. But of course Wizard brings more than that.

    The delta of Empower Healing is very near to zero, as it's way over the top of the HP bar. And with this build's solo focus, the unlocking of arcane wands is better. For example, I strongly prefer constant Shield and Expeditious Retreat to Divine Favor. Stoneskin is great, too. Yes, at end-game these can be UMDed, but this build is largely about making the journey there. As noted, if you have an end-game Raid focus, you probably don't want to make this build in the first place.

    1 point of damage is a small increment; 1 point of AC, at the margin, is not -- as you of course know there are situation where it can cut your incoming damage in half. And 5 points of AC is night and day (Shield + Dodge).

    Finally, the Wizard level makes the feat progression much better -- giving you both Empower and Maximize early on. Yet another thing that doesn't matter with an end-game focus, but matters greatly for a mainly-solo melee build.

    Maybe I'm the only person on earth who likes what Wizard splashes do for soloing. I've done it more than once, and never regretted it for a second.

    But folks, don't take Dark-Star's advice lightly. This guy knows what he's doing.
    Last edited by Thanimal; 07-07-2010 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member jhenders's Avatar
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    Cool Hmmm . . .

    You specify getting TWF but what weapons am I using? You also mention, in your AC breakdown, that I'm using a shield . . . So which one is it???

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhenders View Post
    You specify getting TWF but what weapons am I using?
    Unarmed. TWF feats work with unarmed attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhenders View Post
    You also mention, in your AC breakdown, that I'm using a shield . . . So which one is it???
    Actually, I think the OP means the Shield spell.

  12. #12
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    All very good points Thanimal, and I definitely agree it comes down to perspective: end game vs. pre-endgame.

    All that said the build is rock solid, and the splash is basically splitting hairs. Either way one goes, the 4h will hold up great (tm).
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  13. #13
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhenders View Post
    You specify getting TWF but what weapons am I using? You also mention, in your AC breakdown, that I'm using a shield . . . So which one is it???
    These questions have already been answered: unarmed; and Shield is cast from spell bar or (later) from a Wand with a longer duration.

    But I wanted to pop back in and say I'm happy to answer more questions like this. This build can work well for a new player, but I have been doing build posts long enough now that I'm getting really bad at remembering what new players don't know yet!

    For example, Mage Armor may be a good choice of spell until you can get Black Widow Bracers as a Waterworks reward. (They don't stack.) Then switch in Expeditious Retreat -- because your running speed is sometimes the only thing slowing you down!

    Feel free to send me private messages if your questions don't get answered quickly.

  14. #14
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanimal View Post
    ...
    Saves
    Fighter 12: 8/4/4
    Kensai II: 2/2/2
    Monk 7: 5/5/5
    Wiz 1: 0/0/2
    Stats (without potions): 5/10/9
    Halfling: 1/1/1
    GH: 4/4/4
    Resist: 5/5/5
    luck: 2/2/2
    alchemical: 1/1/1
    ---
    33/34/35

    Strangely, Reflex is a hair short of "save on 2" (target 35), but saves are pretty solid for a DPS-focused build. If Reflex save bothers you, go for some enhancements on it.
    ...
    Now you're just down by 1 ;D
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  15. #15
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    Now you're just down by 1 ;D
    YES! Thanks.

  16. #16
    Community Member jhenders's Avatar
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    Talking :d

    Hey,
    Thanks for the build Thanimal. I love it, I just got to level 5! I'm either rockin':
    +2 Densewood QS
    +2 Battleaxe and shield
    Nicked Kama & Grievous Blade
    or
    Grievous Blade & +3 Byeshk Dagger

    Either way I wear my:
    Deathblock Robe
    Light Fort Robe
    or
    +2 Padded armor

    Loving the solo capacity!

    I have 121 hp & 180 sp!

    I know most level 1 Spells!

    Thank-you again Thanimal!!!
    Last edited by jhenders; 07-08-2010 at 03:49 PM.

  17. #17
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhenders View Post
    Hey,
    Thanks for the build Thanimal. I love it, I just got to level 5! I'm either rockin':
    +2 Densewood QS
    +2 Battleaxe and shield
    Nicked Kama & Grievous Blade
    or
    Grievous Blade & +3 Byeshk Dagger

    Either way I wear my:
    Deathblock Robe
    Light Fort Robe
    or
    +2 Padded armor

    Loving the solo capacity!

    I have 121 hp & 180 sp!

    I know most level 1 Spells!

    Thank-you again Thanimal!!!
    Good news!

    Even better news: You're not nearly experiencing the build's potential!! Unarmed with Wind Stance is far more damage if you can get some decent handwraps. In fact, I literally never switch away from unarmed. Even against Zombies, a set of Holy Handwraps kills 'em about as fast as similar kamas.

    Never use a shield or armor -- those will just reduce your AC and destroy your DPS. Use Shield spell (or wand) and Blackwidow Bracers (farming this up from Waterworks should be your FIRST priority if you don't have 'em).

    Those robes sound great. Also look for Invulnerability -- fantastic through perhaps level 12.

  18. #18
    Community Member Driptooo's Avatar
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    Hey, I'm thinking of making this my main soloing build, just had a few gear questions. What kind of gear would you suggest I look for in the low levels? I know about the BW Bracers from WW, but anything else of importance?

    What kind of handwraps are good to keep around, I've seen some build discussions where people mention having something like 5-10 different handwraps, is that at all necessary?

    Also, would this be a decent build at all in endgame? Either for farming epics or for regular endgame content. Thanks for the build!

  19. #19
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driptooo View Post
    Hey, I'm thinking of making this my main soloing build, just had a few gear questions. What kind of gear would you suggest I look for in the low levels? I know about the BW Bracers from WW, but anything else of importance?
    Well always max Protection item and stat items to get WIS, DEX, STR, and CON to the highest even number you can. I like Robe of Winter and Robe of Invulnerability as my main body options at low levels.

    I got ridiculously lucky at the auction house with some min-level-4 Shock/Pure Good handwraps, and used those for many levels. I think just focus on DPS: a Holy set for evil guys is great, and then something decent for non-Evil guys.

    At higher levels, you will unfortunately need a suitcase full of handwraps, with various Greater Banes for DPS, various insta-kills for specific foes, and some Weighted ones for Stunning (assuming they fix or have fixed that friggin bug!).

    Also, would this be a decent build at all in endgame? Either for farming epics or for regular endgame content. Thanks for the build!
    Decent yes; optimal probably not. Nobody should ever be sorry HHHH is in their party, but if I were buiding the absolutely perfect 12-person party to take on some impossible challenge, I wouldn't pick this build. It's too much of a generalist.

  20. #20
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    First let my say i love this.

    I been a big fan of halfling dragonmarks but so far the best i got to work out was
    wiz/rogue with full dragonmarks empower/maximize and superior potency. I like it but in the end i prefered my wf.

    This build seems to make great use of them to. And its a nice build to start over on a new server :-)

    I do have one question, but keep in mind i know nothing about monks.

    Why not use enhancements to make windstance better? Like adapt of the wind?

    If you could change one feat to path of harmonious balance fist of ligth, you could use the healing ki finisher for even more healing powers. or do i see this wrong?


    Greetings and thanks for the fun build

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