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  1. #41
    Community Member jhenders's Avatar
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    Unhappy >:(

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanimal View Post
    MAN I always forget to give all the details to newer ((BTW: I'm not new I knew about it, I've palyed since game started.)) players. You didn't need to reroll! Just respec the feat with Fred in House J.
    Yeah, I know but I've ran tons of Q's and asked around but no one seems to know where to get those shards . . . You don't get that *1* bonus free exchange anyomore ] So I couldn't exchange it . . . BTW:


    When I rerolled I *forgot* to send my 14k pp!!! I earn money like how fast malossases can go uphill in the middle of winter.
    Last edited by jhenders; 07-11-2010 at 02:07 PM.
    Argonessen:
    Dellashoon- Sorc 13/Clr 1 (can DV 200sp)[]Mrgigglez- Monk 2/Fighter 2/ Wiz 1 (can solo)[]Tiigowah- Monk 7 (can crit for 80s)[]Khyber:[]Burin- Clr 7/ Rog 1 (can Heal for 80s)[]Fiiar- Monk 8 (can solo)

  2. #42
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    This build is full of so much win. I love builds that think outside of the box to achieve new results. Question regarding the two metamagic feats...how much are each contributing to the healing? Neither has any wording to describe its effect on healing spells. Are they each increasing the healing by 50%?

  3. #43
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    At level 5 I healed 52 points with one cast of the least dragonmark of healing - Note: that was with a greater ardor item...

  4. #44
    Community Member Konek's Avatar
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    Maximize and Empower affect healing spells the same way they do damage spells, except for Heal and Mass Heal, which only benefit from Empower Healing (and that only makes a difference when cast on Undead or Barbarians, for the most part).

    Got this build to level 8 so far and loving it. Quite an enjoyable and cheap soloing build so far, although not looking forward to farming Devout Wraps for him when the time comes.

    Plus, this guy is only a LR+1 away from being a high dps build if you replace the wizard level and redo the feats.

    Awesome build, as always Thanimal.

    EDIT: Something I've been curious about is how this build compares to the Solar Phoenix both in survivability and damage. The Phoenix build is definitely more gear and TR dependent, but still curious how the two builds compare, as the paly damage is hard to calculate, and the self healing is quite different.
    Last edited by Konek; 07-11-2010 at 11:36 PM.

  5. #45
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooch74 View Post
    This build is full of so much win. I love builds that think outside of the box to achieve new results. Question regarding the two metamagic feats...how much are each contributing to the healing? Neither has any wording to describe its effect on healing spells. Are they each increasing the healing by 50%?
    Maximize doubles, and Empower increases "by 50%" -- but that's kind of lie because they first stack additively. In other words, if they are both on then you get +150%.

    So that actually means that the multiplier provided by Empower over Maximize is 1.25 (the ratio of 2.5 to 2.0) or 25%.

    For this reason, I consider Empower "technically optional" but I sure do prefer to have it!!

    Somewhere (maybe a PM) somebody asked me if this build is the peak possible DPS on a Dragonmarked Halfling. The answer is no. This build is the best overall soloing package for melee that I know of.

    For reference I believe the max DPS on a Maximized-Dragonmark Halfling is a Barbarian (Frenzy Berserker THF) 18/Fighter 1/Wizard 1. I've actually made this build, and its DPS is excellent -- thanks to Fighter Haste Boost and Halfling Sneak Attack is can actually out-DPS pure Barbs in some situations.

    While said build is "soloable" (quite a feat for a Barbarian), it's not close to the same class as HHHH. It's more like a vehicle to get a Barbarian to the cap without always having to have a Cleric along. Eventually its AC becomes useless, its saves are only "decent," and it can't use Dragonmarks while Raged.

    I may well be a great build -- I'm not sure about that yet. With FB, I strongly suspect telling the Cleric "I'll top myself off after battles" will be greatly appreciated. And as I said it can definitely bring the beats. If somebody is really interested, let me know and I'll try to publish that somewhere. It's not super-complicated.

  6. #46
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    I just have to add my thanks for this build. Still only at low levels, but loving the wizard level, even if, at the moment, I'm using the spells for the puppy and slowfall--maximize and empower are more than enough for me, and being able to shield without clickies is also awesome. The other day, I was grouping with friends through Waterworks and I just went off and cleared more than a third of each dungeon by myself while they had some issues working through the rest. Great fun.

  7. #47
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    Thanimal, two more questions for you:

    1.) What are your thoughts on going Weapon Finesse with this build? You can push Halfling Dex much higher than Str obviously.

    2.) Thoughts on reversing the Fighter and Monk splits and going 12 Monk/7 Fighter, mostly to go the ToD route. Obviously you lose several feats and Kensei II. Is that a poor trade-off to try and get ToD?

  8. #48
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    So is there a consensus as to which is better for this build: handwraps or shortswords?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanimal View Post
    Maximize doubles, and Empower increases "by 50%" -- but that's kind of lie because they first stack additively. In other words, if they are both on then you get +150%.
    Hmmm, been a long while since i dusted out my L8 Sorc DMarked halfling so I don't quite recall how the DMarks react with the metas. Is it really going additive instead of multiplicative (1.5x2.0)?

    Also in your healing calculations, what variables are you using for your healing calcs? On a quick look, I think they might have included:

    Monk (1.2)

    Empower (1.5)
    Maximize (2.0)

    Gear (1.1)(1.2)(1.3)
    - Bracer/stance (1.25)

    The meta's I believe won't count for the Heal mark but all the others should still be good. The addition of the L1 Wiz seems interesting and I may try that out as a change for my F12/M8 build.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgz View Post
    The meta's I believe won't count for the Heal mark but all the others should still be good.

    I just made some tests with my HHHH. She is level 7. (3 Monk/2 Fighter/1 Wizard)
    She has Monk Improved Recovery I, Maximize, and Empower. I also have a Greater Ardor II Item.

    Here are the results...
    =============================================
    Empower Spell: NO
    Maximize Spell: NO
    Greater Ardor: NO
    Least Dragonmark of Healing: 13, 14, 9, 13, 12, 11, 13, 8, 9, 14
    Average Heal: 11.6
    =============================================
    Empower Spell: YES
    Maximize Spell: NO
    Greater Ardor: NO
    Least Dragonmark of Healing: 16, 13, 14, 14, 13, 14, 16, 19, 16, 14
    Average Heal: 14.9
    =============================================
    Empower Spell: NO
    Maximize Spell: YES
    Greater Ardor: NO
    Least Dragonmark of Healing: 28, 22, 22, 19, 22, 24, 24, 26, 24, 17
    Average Heal: 22.8
    =============================================
    Empower Spell: NO
    Maximize Spell: NO
    Greater Ardor: YES
    Least Dragonmark of Healing: 13, 22, 22, 15, 18, 13, 18, 18, 13, 15
    Average Heal: 16.7
    =============================================
    Empower Spell: YES
    Maximize Spell: YES
    Greater Ardor: NO
    Least Dragonmark of Healing: 35, 27, 33, 27, 35, 35, 35, 24, 33, 24
    Average Heal: 30.8
    =============================================
    Empower Spell: YES
    Maximize Spell: YES
    Greater Ardor: YES
    Least Dragonmark of Healing: 35, 57, 57, 44, 39, 57, 48, 39, 39, 48
    Average Heal: 46.3
    =============================================

  11. #51
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    The marks, I believe, are counted as cure spells for everything except cost, so any healing amp/casting boost helps (I can confirm metas work).

    As such, this analysis should apply:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=252161

  12. #52
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooch74 View Post
    Thanimal, two more questions for you:

    1.) What are your thoughts on going Weapon Finesse with this build? You can push Halfling Dex much higher than Str obviously.
    Oddly enough, you can't. Kensai and Fighter 12 add 11 points to your STR. Can't get that on the DEX side.

    2.) Thoughts on reversing the Fighter and Monk splits and going 12 Monk/7 Fighter, mostly to go the ToD route. Obviously you lose several feats and Kensei II. Is that a poor trade-off to try and get ToD?
    I believe that is a poor tradeoff, yes. Losing all those feats is quite costly, and Kensai II is dramatically better than Kensai I. The subtle issue, however, is to-hit, which far better with Kensai II (at least +5). The game has changes semi-recently to where to-hit is quite important.

    ToD is awesome, but if you want to do THAT, then allow me to suggest Monk 18/Fighter 1/Wiz 1, Wisdom-based "real" Monk. That build offers all sorts of goodness, and I heartily recommend it, but it can really struggle to hit uber-AC foes.

  13. #53
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kreestopearq View Post
    So is there a consensus as to which is better for this build: handwraps or shortswords?
    Firstly, this is not a Ninja Spy build, so not even proficient with Shortswords.

    Secondly, shortswords are awful. Properly equipped, unarmed deals way more damage, not to mention a handy relative +2 to-hit.

    I'm not sure what's going on with all these folks posting Shortsword builds. The only reason I can think of to ever consider shortsword is as a Radiance weapon that lets a mostly-Rogue/Monk-splash stay in stance.

    It's quite possible I've completely missed something about Shortswords, but so far I haven't seen anyone offer any evidence that they are even in the ballpark of unarmed's DPS potential. Keep in mind that unarmed is competitive with Khopesh (unarmed is a little better against 100% Fort; a little worse against 0% Fort). Shortswords are waay short of Khopesh damage.

  14. #54
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgz View Post
    Is it really going additive instead of multiplicative (1.5x2.0)?
    Yep. Technically I haven't re-tested this in update 5, but I tested it many times before that. Stacked metamagics always work like that.

    Also in your healing calculations, what variables are you using for your healing calcs? On a quick look, I think they might have included:
    Think I listed what each bonus was, didn't I? The one missing from your list is a Devotion or Ardor item. In fact, I didn't list ardor, which is a non-trivial increase (1.75 vs. 1.5 for Devotion). Anyhow, it's a LOT.

    The meta's I believe won't count for the Heal mark but all the others should still be good.
    Correct, although Empower Healing does work on Heal (as discussed in the FvS discussion). But, properly equipped, your Heal marks blow the doors off your HP bar, so that wouldn't be useful.

  15. #55
    Community Member Driptooo's Avatar
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    Not sure what kind of robe I should go for at low levels, suggestions?

    also, love the build so far.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driptooo View Post
    Not sure what kind of robe I should go for at low levels, suggestions?

    also, love the build so far.
    My vote would be for anything with the Invulnerability suffix. You can get one as low as ML4. Fearsome is useful as well.

  17. #57
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    I don't get the theory behind why unarmed damage on lvl 7 monk splash is better than shortswords or even longswords. If I recall correctly, lvl 7 monk gives 1d8 unarmed damage, 20/x2. Longswords give also 1d8 but 19+/x2. Given enought static boni, longswords *should* surpass unarmed damage in this case.

    Perhaps someone would explain my error in thinking to me.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariantes22 View Post
    I don't get the theory behind why unarmed damage on lvl 7 monk splash is better than shortswords or even longswords. If I recall correctly, lvl 7 monk gives 1d8 unarmed damage, 20/x2. Longswords give also 1d8 but 19+/x2. Given enought static boni, longswords *should* surpass unarmed damage in this case.

    Perhaps someone would explain my error in thinking to me.
    There's more to it than this, but to start, handwraps have a base 12% (I believe that's the number) increase in attack speed because of a shorter animation sequence. Also, they don't require an extra feat to be able to be used while centered.

  19. #59
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    And get full str modifier, not half, on the off hand attack.
    Guilds: Prophets of the New Republic & Revenents Khyber
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    Builds: Helves Angel Hurtlocker Dark Knight Riddle of Steel

  20. #60
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Unarmed also benefits from uber rings at high levels that can be used at the same time as uber handwraps.

    DPS in this game is very complex, and base damage is only a small fraction of it.

    To gain a deeper understanding, find a copy of Absolute-Omniscience's spreadsheet (can anyone provide a current link?).

    In general the best DPS potential, depending on the build, comes from one of:

    Khopesh -- Huge crits make this best against 0% Fort for almost any build, unless it has Touch of Death. (Iirc, building for Khopesh would give HHHH a tiny increase in DPS against 0% Fort, but would be far worse against those with better Fort, and would give up all the benefits of remaining centered. AND cost two more feats just to get to -2 relative to-hit (Khopesh and oTWF).)
    Unarmed -- Highest potential against 100% Fort; decent against 0% Fort
    Dwarven Axe on a Dwarf -- nice mix of pretty good against both 100% and 0% fort

    Specialty comobs:
    Rapiers on a Drow Paladin. Synergy with Drow enh and Smites pushes this on par with Human Khopesh Paladin.
    Scimitars on an Elf Favored Soul. Synergy with Elf enh and FvS enh pushes this to one of the best FvS melee profiles (although personally I prefer Humand unarmed).

    Most builds referenced above can be found on my favorite builds page (linked in sig).
    Last edited by Thanimal; 07-17-2010 at 09:50 AM.

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