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  1. #1
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    Default Has anyone come up with a nice Monk/rogue multiclass that uses ninjaspy?

    I am interested in doing this but do not know enough about either class to do it well, I was just curious if anyone had done up a build yet.

  2. #2
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    A build like that is less effective. If you go 6 monk for ninja spy 1, you only get one sneak attack die and miss out on a potential 8 sneak attack die. If you go 12 monk, you miss out on high-end monk abilities and don't really get enough rogue stuff to make it worthwhile.

  3. #3
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    13 Rog / 6 Mnk / last level your choice.

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    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    i've been toying with the idea of a 13 rogue/6 monk/1 whatever as a saboteur-type build taking mechanic2 & ninja spy1, using shortswords in melee, repeaters as a ranged option & grenades/traps too - maybe make the 1 extra level wizard (extend as the bonus metamagic) & go as elf for race with the 1st 2 shadow dragonmarks for extended displacement... could potentially be a very versatile rogue build with great trap abilities, decent damage through sneak attacks etc. and some good melee survivability through Shadow Fade & displacement.

    will probably try putting together one in the char builder when i get home from work
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  5. #5
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    Good splits for these are:

    1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack (+2d6 if assassin), +1 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

    Could go assassin II PrE with rogue here for extra 2d6 sneak attack, or thief-acrobat II for slip/trip immunity and quarterstaff speed/dex bonus to sneak attack, and super super movement speed.

    2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack(+1d6 if assassin), +2 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp

    Pure rogues get 14d6+12 sneak attack (up to 17d6+12 with assassin), so if you want to do best DPS pure rogue is best. BUT, monk gives huge bonus to saving throws, AC, movement, immunities, healing amp, feats, and ki strikes.

    Best DPS will be pure rogue, but a sturdier faster build will be one of these ninja spy builds. If you want to be a quarterstaff user, go with option 1) and take thief acrobat. If you want to be a shortsword user, option 1) or 2) are both good.
    Last edited by Plutocracy; 07-06-2010 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plutocracy View Post
    Good splits for these are:

    1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack, +2 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

    2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack, +3 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp
    Fixed above. Monk centered bonuses are at 2, 5, 10, 15, 20. So /6 monk = +2 ac; /12 = +3.

    And yeah, the splits above come down to whether or not you see yourself using shortswords primarily, or handwraps.
    A /12 Monk split = ToD which = handwraps only. You'd be silly to pass that up.

    The 13/6/1 split can also pick up Assassin II for an extra +2d6 sneak dice, and a reasonably ok Assassinate DC (23 + int mod, so not too bad. With a bit of work you could have a 28-29ish DC, which might get a few things in the Vale).

    Not a big fan of the mechanic combo, as crossbows would uncenter you, and trapsmithing isn't viable enough yet to be a full-time saboteur.

  7. #7
    Community Member honkuimushi's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if a Monk 12/ Ranger 6/ Fighter 2 or Ranger 12/ Monk 6 / Fighter 2 combining Sneak Attack from NS, items, and Halfling racials and reacing a simulated 20 BAB would be better in the long run.

    Drow could be interesting as well with their short sword enhancements and the possibility of Sneak Attack from Scorpion Wraith in the future.

    They wouldn't have trap skills, but they should have stealth, decent sneak attack full attack speed and bonus double strikes and a Decent AC to boot.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plutocracy View Post
    Good splits for these are:

    1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack, +1 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

    2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack, +2 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp

    Pure rogues get 14d6+12 sneak attack, so if you want to do best DPS pure rogue is best. BUT, monk gives huge bonus to saving throws, AC, movement, immunities, healing amp, feats, and ki strikes.

    Best DPS will be pure rogue, but a sturdier faster build will be one of these ninja spy builds.
    Actually, pure rogues with deadly shadow capstone get 17d6 sneak attack if you go Assassin III.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery Vissarion's Avatar
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    What Plutocracy said. Those seem to be the two best class splits for a Ninja Spy build. I prefer the 12 Monk/7 Rogue/1 Fighter for the better base unarmed damage, Touch of Death, and Tier III stances.

    I went Halfling and weapon finesse, since otherwise the stats can be kinda tricky. I also prefer a pretty good INT for rogue skills, but ditching those for better other stats is fine too. These were my stats:

    Str: 12 (+1 tome needed for Power Attack)
    Dex: 16 (Level ups here)
    Con: 16 (For easy access to Earth strike III)
    Int: 14 (Rogue skills and combat expertise)
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 8

    For skills, I keep UMD, Concentration, Search, and Disable Device maxed. I keep Hide and Move Silently close to max (with Monk speed and Ninja spy/Rogue sneak speed boosts, you move pretty fast stealthed). Spot, Balance, Jump, and Open Locks get the remaining points, and all end up at a pretty decent level.

    Feats are: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Toughness x2, Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus: UMD, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Dodge, and Improved Critical: Bludgeoning

    The key with the 12/7/1 build is to use unarmed attacks, since these will almost always be better DPS than using Short Swords. Unarmed has a better base attack speed, and you can use Touch of Death, which is of course awesome. Short Swords give you a little flexibility, so that if you can't find DR-bypassing handwraps, you have a fallback option, and they also open up the possibility of crafting Radiance Short Swords for good synergy with your sneak attack dice (8d6 + 17 for this build).

    You also get exceptional saves (especially reflex), heal scroll level UMD, nice immunities, Monk run speed, and a pretty solid AC if AC is the kind of thing you care about (if it isn't, Combat Expertise can be dropped).

    Aerendil has a good 13 Rogue/6 Monk/1 other build here, if that's more your preferred flavor: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258380

    Good luck, and have fun!
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by raxag0rer View Post
    I am interested in doing this but do not know enough about either class to do it well, I was just curious if anyone had done up a build yet.
    I am building a 2 monk, 6 radiant aura cleric and 12 acrobat rogue.

    Front line all the time healing!!

    Actually thats how I imagine Shintao Monks should be. Aura of healing.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plutocracy View Post
    Could go assassin II PrE with rogue here for extra 2d6 sneak attack, or thief-acrobat II for slip/trip immunity and quarterstaff speed/dex bonus to sneak attack, and super super movement speed.
    Can't do Acrobat with Ninja Spy due to overlapping tumble enhancements unfortunately. That would be one wicked build however. You can still do Assassin or Mechanic with Ninja Spy. Or Acrobat with Shintao (or nothing at all). I currently have a 12/7 rogue monk using q-tips that's a lot of fun to play. Will eventually LR into 13/6/1 rogue monk fighter. If Shintao revamp turns into something useful, I have a placeholder Toughness feat to swap out.

  12. #12
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    have a halfling 12/5 monk/rogue ninja atm and it is a fun build

    Str: 14 (All skill up here)
    Dex: 15 (+2 tome at 7)
    Con: 14
    Int: 13 (+1 tome at 4)
    Wis: 14
    Cha: 8

  13. #13
    DDO Players Council Xyfiel's Avatar
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    I went 12monk/6ranger/2rogue Drow which should become popular when Scorpion Wraith is released in 2014.

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    Thanks for all the replies, I'm still not sure what I want to do, but I've got alot of good ideas now.

  15. #15
    Community Member Orrowan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyfiel View Post
    I went 12monk/6ranger/2rogue Drow which should become popular when Scorpion Wraith is released in 2014.
    I've just been working out something similar, and came here to see if anyone knew:

    Does rogue haste boost stack with tempest and air stance? DDOwiki doesn't seem to know what type of bonus the haste boost gives...

  16. #16
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orrowan View Post
    I've just been working out something similar, and came here to see if anyone knew:

    Does rogue haste boost stack with tempest and air stance? DDOwiki doesn't seem to know what type of bonus the haste boost gives...
    Keep in mind that with U5, tempest haste no longer exists.
    Tempest now offers improved offhand swing chances (+10% for tier 1 and 2) or doublestrike chance (5% at tier 3).

    And the air stance haste no longer stacks with the haste spell, so the maximum regular haste for any character (aside from acrobats) will be 15% now.

    The clicky hastes from rogue or fighter will stack with this, though.

  17. #17
    Community Member Orrowan's Avatar
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    I did not know that. That was kinda 3/4 of the point of going ranger 6 to tempest I.

    I guess I should go peruse the ranger forums instead, but any gut feeling on whether tempest is still worth it? I'm not really clear on what +10% offhand swing chance means (+10% to hit? +10% chance for another swing each rotation?) I really wanted to build a DW longsword monk, and I was looking at 6 ranger for the 2WF feats instead of just a couple of levels of fighter, essentially because Tempest I sounded good on paper... now I'm not so sure.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orrowan View Post
    I did not know that. That was kinda 3/4 of the point of going ranger 6 to tempest I.

    I guess I should go peruse the ranger forums instead, but any gut feeling on whether tempest is still worth it? I'm not really clear on what +10% offhand swing chance means (+10% to hit? +10% chance for another swing each rotation?) I really wanted to build a DW longsword monk, and I was looking at 6 ranger for the 2WF feats instead of just a couple of levels of fighter, essentially because Tempest I sounded good on paper... now I'm not so sure.
    It means an additional 10% chance to generate an off-hand attack. So if you have all the TWF feats and Tempest I you are at 90% chance to generate an off-hand attack with each primary attack. Tempest II takes it to 100% chance.

  19. #19
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    It means an additional 10% chance to generate an off-hand attack. So if you have all the TWF feats and Tempest I you are at 90% chance to generate an off-hand attack with each primary attack. Tempest II takes it to 100% chance.
    Correct.

    For reference, the TWF line was changed to:

    No TWF feats = 100% chance to swing your main-hand weapon per attack; 20% chance to swing your off-hand weapon per attack.

    TWF = 100% / 40%

    ITWF = 100% / 60%

    GTWF = 100% / 80%.

    So most characters will now be at 100/80, which is a bit of a dps drop for some. However, double-strike was introduced which somewhat offsets this dps loss. For some classes, such as dark monks with ToD, I think we've seen a definite dps increase due to this.

    Tempest I and II offer +10% per tier to offhand attacks, so /12 Ranger will be the only way to guarantee that you swing both mainhand and offhand with every attack.
    Last edited by Aerendil; 07-08-2010 at 11:47 AM.

  20. #20
    Community Member Orrowan's Avatar
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    Ah; interesting. So, if we assume that the offhand has the same base damage as the main (which isn't totally ludicrous, if your +hit is high enough that you don't miss much) then Tempest I should add about 5% to your DPS:

    190%/180% = 1.055

    Thats not bad, really. Probably doesn't offset losing 6 levels of monk - compared to a pure monk - but I was kind of set on the longsword monk idea anyways, which doesn't take much advantage of high-end monk stuff. And compared to 12 monk 7 rogue its what? 3d6+6 less sneak attack? (someone above worked that build out to be 7d6+9, and with both ninja enhancements, I figure 12/6/1 monk/ranger/rogue at 4d6+3). A 5% boost will be less, but I wouldn't have thought cripplingly so, and at least it scales with gear, unlike sneak attacks. Like I say, he doesn't have to be perfect, just hopefully not useless. I'm thinking something like this:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    RangerMonk 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
    (13 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
    Hit Points: 240
    Spell Points: 70
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    20
    Dexterity            16                    20
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom               14                    17
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                    Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    10
    Bluff                -1                    -1
    Concentration         6                    25
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -1                     2
    Heal                  6                     8
    Hide                  7                    22
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  7                    30
    Listen                2                     5
    Move Silently         7                    22
    - Show quoted text -
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                     1
    Spot                  2                     5
    Swim                  3                     5
    Tumble                n/a                   8
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored
    Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus:
    Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
    Melee Damage I
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Ranger
    Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel
    Strike
    Enhancement: Monk Jump I
    Enhancement: Monk Tumble I
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
    Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Way of the
    Clever Monkey I
    Enhancement: Void Strike I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste
    Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster
    Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak
    Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two
    Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored
    Enemy: Chaotic Outsider
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored
    Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity
    II
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
    Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger
    Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of
    Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    Enhancement: Monk Jump II
    Enhancement: Monk Tumble II
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
    Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved
    Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Way of the
    Clever Monkey II
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    Enhancement: All-Consuming
    Flame
    Enhancement: Winter's Touch
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two
    Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Porous Soul
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Way of the
    Clever Monkey III
    Enhancement: Touch of Death
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Adept of Flame
    Enhancement: Adept of Rain
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Master of Thunder
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
    Enhancement: Master of
    Bonfires
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Master of the Sea
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved
    Trap Sense I
    No real idea what to take for the last level - nothing much I want, but monk gets some spell resist at 13?

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