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  1. #1

    Default A Guild for Min-max Soloers: Brotherhood of BYOH

    Do any of these statements describe you?

    • You find yourself soloing a lot because you never know when real life will interrupt and you'll have to go afk or log out.
    • You find yourself soloing a lot because your game time is precious and you don't want to wait for groups to form.
    • You find yourself soloing a lot because, with Dungeon Scaling, it's just plain more efficient than grouping with mediocre players.
    • You build and equip for self-sufficiency and it frustrates you to group with people who don't.
    • You'd really prefer to group if it weren't for all of the above.


    If you found yourself nodding your head as you went down the list above, you may be interested in a new guild Thanimal and I are forming called Brotherhood of BYOH. The goal is to create a pool of players where we can all log in and assume:

    (A) Any character you see online in the guild can be assumed to 'carry their own weight' if you group up with them.
    (B) You can join a quest with them in-progress, even if you don't know if you'll have to drop unexpectedly, and there will be no hard feelings -- because they might just have to leave you in the same boat.
    (C) Every guild party comes with an implicit, "BYOH, come and go as you please".
    (D) We can all get some of the advantages of the renown system without having to commit to a guild where consistent play time is expected.


    The "rules" of Brotherhood of BYOH will be:

    - Real life trumps all, and interruptions are expected. All guild members understand that they or anyone else may not be able to finish any given quest. Seriously -- if three people have to drop right before the boss fight, that's OK and understood -- the remaining folks will finish on their own. This may sound a bit like a "casual" guild, but it's not -- at least not in the "I don't know or care what I'm doing" sense that that term is often used. Somewhat the opposite, actually:

    - Admission is on a per-character basis, and characters must demonstrate self-sufficiency. This is important because the assumption of the guild is that your party makeup may change at any time. If the party Cleric goes afk to tend to her kid, you better be able to keep going! To qualify, a given character can do ANY of the following:

    • Solo Kobold's New Ringleader on Elite, with the Jung's badge optional, with no deaths at level 4 or lower
    • Solo Splinterskull part 7 on Elite, with no deaths at level 7 or lower
    • Solo Delera's part 4 on Elite, with no deaths at level 8 or lower
    • Solo Co6 Part 5 on Elite, with no deaths, at level 11 or lower
    • Solo VoN 3 on Elite, with no deaths, at level 15 or lower
    • Solo Foundation of Discord on Elite, with no deaths, at level 18 or lower
    • Solo any Eveningstar Epic Elite, with no deaths, at any level


    Note that hirelings aren't specifically forbidden, but if used, can't die either on a qualifying run.

    - Prefer soloing or short-manning to LFM. The main purpose of this is to leave spots open for fellow guildmates who may be able to join for part or all of the quest. However, when you DO happen to have a chunk of dedicated game time, it's OK to join a non-guild LFM. Just don't expect other guild members to join with you.

    - Characters may drop out of Brotherhood of BYOH at any time for any reason, without notice. For example, it's fine to join Brotherhood of BYOH to level up to a certain point and then drop out when ready to do Raids. (It's possible Brotherhood of BYOH might do some short-manned Raids, depending on how things work out, but it will never be a Raid-focused guild.)

    - A player is welcome to have other characters in other guild(s). For example, a (real life) doctor might have one character in Brotherhood of BYOH that she plays while on call, and play other characters in a more traditional guild when she has blocks of time that won't be interrupted.

    - When you do group, try to work as a team, and share loot based on need.

    - Don't be an A-hole. We may be elitists, but the bottom line is fun!

    This is obviously for a very specific player niche (Min-max players with hardcore mindset, but casual time commitment), but if this sounds like your cup of tea, send a PM to cforce with a screenshot of one of the 'qualifying runs', above, or look for us in-game.

    1 Year Update

    Actually, 15 month update! Time for a renewed recruiting push.

    Thanimal and I weren't really sure how much traction this concept would get -- we were prepared for anything between a massive push of folks, and a guild of two. We've gotten something in between -- a number of folks showed interest early, some moved along and some stayed.

    With regard to the original goals:

    (A) Any character you see online in the guild can be assumed to 'carry their own weight' if you group up with them.
    (B) You can join a quest with them in-progress, even if you don't know if you'll have to drop unexpectedly, and there will be no hard feelings -- because they might just have to leave you in the same boat.
    (C) Every guild party comes with an implicit, "BYOH, come and go as you please".
    (D) We can all get some of the advantages of the renown system without having to commit to a guild where consistent play time is expected.

    ...all have been delivered to some degree. Membership has its privledges -- as mostly-soloers, we've got our airship and guild leveled up to 50 as of 9/16/2011. And while we still have a few semi-regular players, getting levels to actually match up is a challenge. Oftentimes when multiple people are on, we simply aren't close enough in level to bother partying up. (Especially since everyone can solo quests, anyway!) A lot of the team play has ended up being focused on the high levels -- short-manning some of the obviously short-mannable raids with pairs or threes.

    Have to solo a lot because of real-life interruptions? Want access to airship buffs for your soloer? Maybe occasionally party up with someone else with real-life constraints? Join the Brotherhood of BYOH!


    3-Year update

    Do you solo a lot because groups always slow you down?

    Do you sneer when people die because they got separated from the party and didn't bring any way to heal themselves?

    Do you have every feat, enhancement, and skill point to level cap mapped out on paper before you have clicked the first ability point '+' in character creation?

    If so, the Brotherhood of BYOH may be for you.

    Formed back in June 2010, Thanimal and I realized that we rarely played with others because we often would get interrupted -- and leaving a PuG mid-quest is just rude. On the flip side, we'd enjoy duo'ing with each other all the time. All of our characters were highly tuned and self-sufficient, so if someone needed to drop mid-quest, it was no big deal. The other person could always finish solo if needed.

    So, we set up a guild based around these principles. A player needs to pass a soloing bar to get in, to ensure that we've got folks that can carry their own weight when abandoned.

    Three years later, the guild size has ebbed and flowed in a small-to-medium size; between 10 and 25 active players. It's been closer to 10 for a while now, though, so I decided it's time to get recruiting again.

    Membership can have it's benefits. While we're not all 'hardcore' players, we're all self-sufficient. The guild level is 64, so we've got the amenities up through a full set of +2 shrines covered. There is very little expected; dont' get in each other's way, don't be a jerk in guild chat, and every once in a while when schedules line up, pull off a awesome 3-man raid run.

    As always, if interested, PM a screenshot of your qualifying run to cforce, and expect an invite in the mail!
    Last edited by cforce; 06-19-2013 at 09:35 AM.
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  2. #2
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    Wow, this really sounds like a great idea!

  3. #3
    Community Member Thanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sh0uzama View Post
    Wow, this really sounds like a great idea!
    I agree .

    But in all seriousness, we realized this was the only way we were ever going to group again. If there are players out there in the same boat as us, this is also probably the only way they can group up with any sort of regularity. Otherwise it's either just not worth it (as a run with mediocre players is both slower and less likely to succeed than a solo run for a build-optimizing self-sufficient veteran) or it's just not possible (since most groups do NOT appreciate someone who may have to drop unexpectedly).

    So if you're out there, come join our "team!"

  4. #4
    Community Member Bobbyd's Avatar
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    Default Returning player

    I'm a returning player that is intrested in grouping with you guys to see how it goes. I used to be in a similiar guild, still am i believe. I havent really played in a good year or so, the abbot was the new raid last time i played and the cap was...14 I beleive.

    However I'd like to catch up a bit add see if we fit. I play a sorcerer and a ranger.
    Sorcerer and heal himself/use rez scrolls etc...
    Ranger can heal and has rez rings..

    Used to 3 man DQ without using the "spot" which i beleive they fixed.
    4 man Von 5, this was long time aggo.
    3 man Stormreaver

    Single man loot runs in gianthold...

    I have a few other characters, however i'm returning player and ill need to be updated on some of the newer content.

    I do come stocked with haste/heal/barkskin/restore pots/wands and other things i need to solo just about any quest.

    In game
    Zarri is my Sorcerer
    Zori is my Ranger
    The Last Heros
    Zori - 14 Ranger, Zory - 14 Ranger
    Zarri - 14 Sorcerer, Kamusi - 13 Barb
    Zorrie - 7 Cleric/1Fighter

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    I didn't have any characters on that server, but this guild sounds good enough that I made a new WF sorc to get started. Hope to find you in a group sometimes!

  6. #6
    Community Member Asketes's Avatar
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    if you were on Khyber i'd drop a lowby in your guild.. you've always had some good stuff to say here on the forums. I'd bet you are fun to run with as well!
    (Perma) - Khyber - Official Helpers Guild Noob
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    Grease is an extremely valuable party buff.

  7. #7
    Community Member Montrose's Avatar
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    Interesting concept, though this would make raids untenable for the characters in this guild.

    You wouldn't be able to raid with your own guild, and people outside your guild would be reluctant to take someone whose main motto is "Expedct me to drop group without warning."
    You may know me as: Gannot, Gonnet, Gunnet, Ginnet, Gaxxat, Gennot, Gannut, Gxnnxt, Horseface, Izzayhay, Pailmaster, Artifactual, Gynnet and/or Barred. What? I like alts.

  8. #8
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Sounds like fun - if you had a brother temple on Sarlona/Cannith, I'd be tempted.

    Except I really enjoy the benefits of being in a guild of one... not sure I could give it up.

    And I'd love to run raids like this - you just need to establish more than one person for each task, just in case
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrose View Post
    Interesting concept, though this would make raids untenable for the characters in this guild.

    You wouldn't be able to raid with your own guild, and people outside your guild would be reluctant to take someone whose main motto is "Expedct me to drop group without warning."
    I'm going to be interested to see how this plays out, but I'm hopeful this won't be the case. There's a reason we made a point of specifying "However, when you DO happen to have a chunk of dedicated game time, it's OK to join a non-guild LFM." If we end up recruiting someone who starts using the guild name as an excuse to join a "dedicated" raid and bail, you can be sure we'll take action. While I get less time to raid than I'd like, I'm still planning on raiding with my higher-level characters when I know I'm not going to be interrupted. Earning a reputation for bailing on pickup groups will be unacceptable, especially given that the reason for the guild in the first place is to give people like myself something better to do than put a PuG at risk when they've got a bit of unpredictable time!!!

    My hope is that raid leaders, if they are looking at guild affiliation at all, will take the "BYOH" piece of the guildname as the operative qualifier -- myself, I'm always happier picking up players that know how to take care of themselves, even if I'm in a "traditional" party/raid where BYOH isn't actually required!
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  10. #10
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    ...To qualify, a given character can do ANY of the following:
    • solo Splinterskull on Normal or better, with no hirelings and no deaths as a level 4 (or under).
    • solo Delera's on Normal or better, with no deaths, and a hireling only used in part II for lever pulling, as a level 6 (or under).
    • solo Cult of the Six on Normal or better, with no hirelings and no deaths as a level 8 (or under).
    • solo any quest of your choice in Gianthold on Normal or better, with no deaths as a level 11 (or under).
    • solo any quest of your choice in the Vale on Normal or better, with no deaths as a level 14 (or under).
    • solo any raid-flagging quest of your choice in Shavarath on Normal or better, with no deaths.

    ...
    Just out of curiosity (and because I'm thinking about starting up a new toon on Thelanis for this), do you need a screenshot of only the last quest in the chain, or every quest in the chain?
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  11. #11
    Community Member LordArkan's Avatar
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    This is pretty cool, but I'm concerned about the requirements. I'm not experienced in the Vale- are its quests really soloable at lv14? Seems like I'd have an easier time making a new character and trying to qualify for a lower level entry than attempting with my lv14 WF sorc.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    Just out of curiosity (and because I'm thinking about starting up a new toon on Thelanis for this), do you need a screenshot of only the last quest in the chain, or every quest in the chain?
    We probably won't be real sticklers about this -- screenshot of the final chapter and your word that you also did the rest according to the rules is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by csivils View Post
    I didn't have any characters on that server, but this guild sounds good enough that I made a new WF sorc to get started. Hope to find you in a group sometimes!
    Worth pointing out: since we're bootstrapping this and only have a few members so far, and Thanimal and I have unpredictable playtime, PMing us on the forums will be the fastest way to get signed up if you qualify. Guild members in-game might be scarcer until we get to critical mass!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordArkan View Post
    This is pretty cool, but I'm concerned about the requirements. I'm not experienced in the Vale- are its quests really soloable at lv14? Seems like I'd have an easier time making a new character and trying to qualify for a lower level entry than attempting with my lv14 WF sorc.
    This might be true, but several of the Vale quests *should* be very soloable with a level 14 WF Sorc. Let Sleeping Dust Lie might be the easiest of the bunch as a caster, but I was most recently going through those on a melee, so it could be worth getting a second opinion.
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  13. #13
    Community Member LordArkan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    This might be true, but several of the Vale quests *should* be very soloable with a level 14 WF Sorc. Let Sleeping Dust Lie might be the easiest of the bunch as a caster, but I was most recently going through those on a melee, so it could be worth getting a second opinion.
    Heh, just tried that one. Maybe if I had Hold Monster and a pair of heavy picks, but I don't see it happening with my sorc in his current state- more explosions than Michael Bay, and I can't land disintegrate on the ogres. :P

    Watched a couple videos of people soloing Rainbow in the Dark and that looked kinda easy. Found out very quickly that the videos were pre-DA... Ran out of SP right before the fire portal, and stopped there.

  14. #14
    Community Member Montrose's Avatar
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    With dungeon scaling, the vale quests have gotten much more solo friendly. With even a mid-range AC (55ish) you can mitigate a good chunk of the damage in vale quests.

    Depending on the definition of "solo", these are very doable with a cleric hireling. I'm a big fan of cleric hirelings myself, since I essentailly use them as very cheap down-time healing. (Park cleric at door, fight until you are low on health, go somewhere safe and summon cleric. Park him in new spot, repeat as necessary).

    If you're going the caster route, the easiest one of the bunch, as mentioned previously, is almost certainly Sleeping Dust. Clear the rest shrine first, and then it's just a matter of time after that since you can use the shrine infinitely.
    You may know me as: Gannot, Gonnet, Gunnet, Ginnet, Gaxxat, Gennot, Gannut, Gxnnxt, Horseface, Izzayhay, Pailmaster, Artifactual, Gynnet and/or Barred. What? I like alts.

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    Community Member dasein18's Avatar
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    hmmm, this seems familiar. Oh yeah check out this mission statement:


    http://archangelsddo.guildlaunch.com/


    Been moslty solo (99%) for the last two months in our guild... had some life issues and did a few others.. all understand and respect each other. This concept is solid wish luck to you BYOH folks and would run with you if it was not for my desire to either solo or raid.
    Cardinaldrew - Badmonkey - Ramblinrose - Heatmonkey - Soulmonkey - Minglle wood - Estimated Prophet - and other monkeys. All deleted for permanent retirement.

    Proud Officer --- Archangels---

  16. #16
    Community Member LordArkan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrose View Post
    If you're going the caster route, the easiest one of the bunch, as mentioned previously, is almost certainly Sleeping Dust. Clear the rest shrine first, and then it's just a matter of time after that since you can use the shrine infinitely.
    I'm aware... it would be incredibly easy on my lv14 WF Wizard, but he's on Ghallanda.

  17. #17
    2015 DDO Players Council B0ltdrag0n's Avatar
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    Part 3 of Delera's Done and Part 4 will be done after my afternoon nap.


    Update

    In and done. Thanks V.
    Last edited by B0ltdrag0n; 07-09-2010 at 11:50 PM.

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    Thumbs up Yess!

    I finally managed to find the time to do the whole Splinterskull questline @ level 4.

    I sent a message to Thanimal

    Hope to find you in-game soon!
    Have fun!

  19. #19
    Community Member Arctigis's Avatar
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    Great idea guys - exactly what I have been looking for!

    Now, I just need to meet your entrance requirements.... Sins here I come

  20. #20

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    Excellant idea and exactly the sort of Guild I'm looking for right now. I have a lvl 14 character that I can put through the test in the Vale.

    My own solo experiences are extensively with Melee orientated alts. As for the vale, I can offer the following comments for melee's attempting these quests.

    Coal Chamber: Soloable and done on a lvl 16.
    Rainbow in the Dark: Soloable and done on a lvl 15.
    Ritual Sacrifice: Soloable since the Air Ellie nerf. Done at lvl 15.
    Let Sleeping Dust Lie: Soloable at lvl 15. Just watch how and what you target.

    Running with the Devils: Only one I havn't done this Solo yet.

    In both Ritual Sacrifice and Sleeping Dust the only real challenge is keeping the NPC alive while you deal with trash in those particular instances.

    I won't go into any other spoilers, half the challenge is in figuring out what you need to achieve a solo completion. If anyone wants to look me up in game to discuss, feel free.
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

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