Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Ninja Assassin

  1. #1
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default Ninja Assassin

    *Updated for U12*

    The initial build concept for the Ninja Assassin was after U5 and involved a shortsword using Assassin II / Ninja I. At the time, I felt that shortswords were superior due to the limitation of handwraps in bypassing DR, a lack of endgame / epic handwraps, and stunning fist being limited to monk levels for calculating DC.

    Obviously, all of those things have changed. Stunning fist now uses *character* levels to determine DC; DR isn't as much of an issue now with Artificer spells and adamantine-studded and silver-threaded handwraps dropping; and endgame handwraps now exist in the form of eWraps of Endless Night, eCalomel handwraps, and of course, Alchemical Handwraps.


    So, without further ado, here goes:

    Level split : 13 Rogue / 6 Monk / last level doesn't matter much, but suggest /1 Ranger for run speed, resistance clicky, and a free +3 damage vs. 1 FE. Additionally, 13 Rogue / 7 Monk is an option too as /7 Monk provides Wholeness of Body, and enhancements of Improved Recovery II.

    Race : Half-Elf gets the nod here. Half-Elf can go Fighter Dilletante for a bonus +2 to stunning fist, while still retaining human versatility and human improved recovery enhancements.

    Starting stats: Not bothering listing unless requested, since it now varies wildly with TR build points, tomes available, and how you want to play this character. Suffice to say, STR, CON, and WIS are primary stats. DEX of 17+ required for the TWF line, so however you want to get there. And lastly an INT of 12+ strongly required to keep those skills up.

    Feats (10):
    Toughness, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC:Bludgeoning, PA, CE, Stunning Fist, Dodge, +1 (past life feat Monk or Rogue would be fantastic choices).
    CE can be swapped out if you don't want to bother aiming for AC, although this build can easily obtain *fantastic* AC, and be converted into a quasi-tank. The only thing lacking will be core hps due to 13 levels of a d6 class.
    Dodge is to qualify for Ninja I.


    AC can easily reach 70+ self-buffed after a bit of farming. Combined with Shadow Fade (25% incorporeality) and the ability to UMD Displacement scrolls, this character is pretty hard to hit.

    With Monk improved recovery II, Human (i.e. Half-elf) improved recovery II, Rogue wand and scroll mastery, and any other healing amp gear you may have, you should be able to easily self-heal via Heal scrolls for a sizeable amount.

    Sneak attack damage = 10d6 (13 Rogue + Assassin II + Ninja Spy I) + 12 (sneak training IV) + 8 (backstabbing +5 item) + 5 (eRing of the Stalker).
    Average sneak damage if my math is correct would be +60. +70 if you have PL:Sneak of Shadows active. If your haste IV clicky is active, and you don't have aggro....you soon will.

    Since radiance handwraps don't exist, the Bluff skill is your best friend for solo situations. In groups, just let the Barbarian run in first and grab their attention

    Assassinate DC would be 23 + Int mod, so probably something like 28-30 at endgame. Not stellar, but might be enough to have some fun in the Vale. Not the main focus of this build, however, and endgame I'd leave Assassinating to the professionals.

    Saves would be a base +17/+21/+17 in water stance. With stat mods, these should all be close to or above +30 solo unbuffed.
    Throw in Recitation (+2), Greater Heroism (+4), and your clickies (+6 from Uncanny Dodge, +5 from human versatility), and you're laughing.

    Stunning Fist DC : 10 + 1/2 char level + WIS mod + any other mods. With an endgame WIS of, say, 30, this DC could be 45+ easily with a +10 stunning item (alchemical handwraps FTW) and eSpare Hand (+5 exceptional bonus). 50+ with a bit more work.

    End result is a class combination that is versatile, sturdy, capable of self-healing, does fantastic dps both solo and in a group situation (sneak damage + human versatility damage + haste IV clicky + handwrap speed = zomg!; or stunning fist and +50% base damage from incapacitation if tanking), full trapskills, amazing saves, great AC and damage mitigation (shadow fade), etc.
    Last edited by Aerendil; 12-13-2011 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery Vissarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    811

    Default

    I opted for the 12 Monk/7 Rogue/1 Fighter version, for a little less reliance on sneak attack dice, better base damage from handwraps, and a little higher AC, but I like this version a lot as well. It was really tough choosing between the two.

    Basically, seems like the best splits for Ninja Spys would be Drow as your build and Halfling for a majority Monk build, with pure Monks getting some nice benefit from the PrE as well.

    Of all the debatable or plain bad things with U5, Ninja Spy is pure win.
    Order of the Silver Dragons||Argonessen
    Vratch||~Terevorn~||Ignys||Zofya||Virochka
    Theologians don't know nothin' about my soul.

  3. #3
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    ^^ Yeah, to be honest I was waffling between 3 builds for the past month:
    12 Monk / 6 Rogue / 2 whatever (or /8 Rogue for Imp. Uncanny);
    13 Rogue / 6 Monk / 1 whatever;
    12 Ranger / 6 Monk / 2 Rogue.

    Essentially I wanted to take advantage of Ninja Spy I and use shortswords, and any of the above would have worked perfectly well for me.
    In the end, though, 13 Rog won out. Complete personal preference here, though, really.
    12 Monk had ToD and Abundent Step in addition to the other stuff, but the weapon swapping drove me nuts; and 12 Ranger had Tempest II which would have meant 100/100 for TWF, as well as spells such as Jump, Barkskin and Ram's, but came with reasonable bow skills as well which I kept wanting to take advantage of, but which would uncenter me (and, again, drove me nuts have to re-click my stances every minute or two). Uncentering also drops your ki, so if I used my bow and then switched to shortswords, I'd find myself starting a fight with 0 ki and no Shadow Fade, which is definitely a problem.

    We'll see how this plays out, though. I realize it'll be a bit tricky until I can get her radiance weaponry, which may be a few levels as my playtimes aren't what they once were!
    /shrug

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    122

    Default

    i think 13 monk wouldnt be a bat level, i mean 23 spell resistance is better than any non epic item. and has potential to help for soloists.

    8 rogue is nice too for the imp. uncanny.

    before the twf changes i wanted to do 13 monk/6 rang/1 rogue, for the twf speed bonus. but thats now making 100/90 no rather then 100/100 with a 12.5% enhancement, 7.5% insight, and 10% competence bonus to speed boosts.

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    I just went 12 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter and instead of hand wraps I Decided kamas Also i don't think that twd is worth it, I spent it on extra toughnesses to beef up my hp. Currently i'm 10/6/1 and loving it. I also beefed up in to 16 and dropped str to 14, might pay for that one later... but i wanted to play around a bit with assassinate. I did have a few questions/comments/concerns. Mainly, with windstance now not adding attack speed, instead doing a 5% chance to double strike, is that still your the preffered stance? Sun is nice, but even spamming i can't dump ki fast enough in sunstance, which makes the ki regen in stealth AWESOME! just curious on other opinions/ options I might be missing out on... was considering water for higher debuff dc's but how effective are the 6 lvl debuffs anways?

  6. #6
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d3ftblade View Post
    I just went 12 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter and instead of hand wraps I Decided kamas Also i don't think that twd is worth it, I spent it on extra toughnesses to beef up my hp. Currently i'm 10/6/1 and loving it. I also beefed up in to 16 and dropped str to 14, might pay for that one later... but i wanted to play around a bit with assassinate. I did have a few questions/comments/concerns. Mainly, with windstance now not adding attack speed, instead doing a 5% chance to double strike, is that still your the preffered stance? Sun is nice, but even spamming i can't dump ki fast enough in sunstance, which makes the ki regen in stealth AWESOME! just curious on other opinions/ options I might be missing out on... was considering water for higher debuff dc's but how effective are the 6 lvl debuffs anways?
    Well, I've just begun levelling this build, so you're actually further along than I am. What I can offer from playing a pure Monk, though, is that the monk finishers are going to be rubbish with only 6 levels of Monk. Nothing will fail their DC save. So you're best off just spamming the earth strike and lightning strike (you have both of these at tier II, right?).

    As for stances, I sit in windstance mostly, but in a group I think fire stance may be a viable option if you want the extra ki for spamming strikes and keeping shadow fade up 24/7. Up to you. In theory, however, wind stance may offer better dps since 5% of the time you're going to be performing a double-strike backstab, which can up dps significantly. An extra 10d6 sneak dice per swing? Yes please.
    Going to have to test this out a bit more, though.

  7. #7
    Community Member Draccus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    3,421

    Default

    I've bounced around the idea of a non-splash rogue/monk for a while but never put it on paper. I like this concept.

    My only question is what do the monk levels do for you over going pure rogue. Other than flavor ("ninja" has got to have some monk, right?) and higher AC, you are sacrificing a lot of DPS (7d6 SA damage) and skill points with the monk levels. Additionally, if you confine yourself to shortswords (I assume that's because of the monk centered requirements?) you're missing a good bit of DPS by not using the superior rapier.

    However, I've never played a monk past level 6 so I'm not sure what 7 levels of monk brings to the table.

    Basic, universal rogue build advice
    "Not in the face! Not in the faaaaaace!"

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    The things you're gaining from going 7 dark monk would be extra ac (from base bonuses and from wis to ac bonuses), ki strikes, tier II stances, tier II animal paths, more hp's, wholeness of body, three extra feats, and the shadow fade from ninja spy. I would count in the dark finishing moves but I have serious doubts that you could land them reliably with only 7 monk levels. The only way I see it worth it is if you make the commitment to have a usable AC - then you've got a character with pretty solid saves (no dump stats that affect saves, 7 levels of monk provides a solid save, stances can amplify saves, etc), evasion, and a quality AC. You wouldn't want to tank due to the low hp pool but at least you're not going to be a drain on party resources since you'll take very little damage.

  9. #9

    Default

    Pay close attention to this VIDEO.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  10. #10
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Draccus View Post
    I've bounced around the idea of a non-splash rogue/monk for a while but never put it on paper. I like this concept.

    My only question is what do the monk levels do for you over going pure rogue. Other than flavor ("ninja" has got to have some monk, right?) and higher AC, you are sacrificing a lot of DPS (7d6 SA damage) and skill points with the monk levels. Additionally, if you confine yourself to shortswords (I assume that's because of the monk centered requirements?) you're missing a good bit of DPS by not using the superior rapier.

    However, I've never played a monk past level 6 so I'm not sure what 7 levels of monk brings to the table.
    Dark summed up most of the advantages to splashing Monk. Deciding on 6 monk vs. 7 monk is basically a matter of soloing. 7 monk = wholeness of body, which is essentially a free Heal (out of combat only) every 3 min or so. At endgame when you can UMD heal scrolls in-combat on yourself, then no worries, but before then wholeness is worth it's weight in gold. So that's a player's choice, really, whether you want it or not. If you don't see yourself using wholeness of body any time soon, consider a Ranger level for a free +3 damage to one enemy type, sprint boost, and free access to heal wands (no UMD required).

    The /6 Monk is a necessity, though. The shortswords-use and shadow fade are the key elements of this particular build, but as Dark mentioned the AC will be pretty impressive too.
    Oh, and don't forget the extra 3 feats that /6 Monk brings I couldn't have such a large feat assignment as listed above without those Monk levels (i.e. a pure Rogue would struggle to have all of those).

    As for dps loss from sneak attack, you're going to end up endgame with the same dps as a non-Assassin level 20 rogue (minus the new capstone): at 10d6 (1 from Ninja, 2 from Assassin II, and 7 from Rogue 13). That's pretty decent.

    Regarding shortswords vs. handwraps, you can easily use both IMO. Maybe even throw in vorpal kamas as well if you're so inclined. This build simply gives you access to all 3 damage types, and while I'm partial to shortswords myself, the true player will always have the right tool for the job no matter what they come across, be it stunning handwraps or radiance shortswords or vorpal kamas.

  11. #11
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Pay close attention to this VIDEO.
    I see your Ninja Assassin video and raise you a true Ninja website:
    http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

    Pay close attention to the facts listed.
    They are indisputable.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Imho opinion the Ac boost were great, the 2 extra toughness feats that beefed up my hit points Equally great. Feat free vorps with a finesseable weapon even more great. But the best thing ever is being able to run invis run (shadow fade ninja spy PrE) and pop into stealth for a quick 2 hit assassination. Long gone are the days where the rogue has to moved at a crappy slow sneak speed trying hard to keep up with the rest of the party zerging their @$$es off. Did I mention a perma spammed 25% incorp that STACKS with blur? (ie Smoke II Equip) for a grand total of mobs missing you 45% of the time? Not to mention the minor details of 2d10 Negative dmg 2-50 on vorpal every 3 seconds. And the fact that you can actually say that you ARE the Ninja Assassin. Imho all facts worth losing 4d6 dmg and 2 extra int from the slightly more appealing rogue crapstone xD

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vissarion View Post
    I opted for the 12 Monk/7 Rogue/1 Fighter version
    have this build at lvl 16 atm, love it... 25% incorp all the time.. touch of death.. stunning fist.. and at 20 8 sneak dice..

  14. #14
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    In a van down by the river
    Posts
    5,706

    Default

    I have a similar halfling build at level 14 right now, but my last level was monk 7.
    As I like to solo quite often, Wholeness of Body is a bigger boon to the character than anything a single level of something else would give.

  15. #15
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    I have a similar halfling build at level 14 right now, but my last level was monk 7.
    As I like to solo quite often, Wholeness of Body is a bigger boon to the character than anything a single level of something else would give.
    Wholeness of Body is certainly a great bonus, especially in it's current (bugged) state. I'm thinking I may pick it up for levelling purposes, and then LR+1 out of it later if I decide I no longer need it. We'll see.

    One thing I have noted, at least on Cannith, is that shortswords are in short supply (no pun intended) these days.
    The AH and the brokers have very few of them of any real value, so outfitting this char has been a bit of a trial actually. Haven't seen a met of PG shortsword on the AH in weeks, for example.

    Glad to see a lot of people having fun with this build, or the reverse build of 12 monk / 7 rogue / 1 other.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Looks very nice! Does it solo well?

  17. #17
    Community Member ArchStriker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    462

    Default

    Why multiclass, as myself i wouldnt waste any levels in rogue , just stick pure and have fun whats so wrong with that, if you want to get traps then be a rogue, simple as that.

  18. #18
    Community Member elyssaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchStriker View Post
    Why multiclass, as myself i wouldnt waste any levels in rogue , just stick pure and have fun whats so wrong with that, if you want to get traps then be a rogue, simple as that.
    Well the rogue gives ALOT of extra DPS as well as adding the possibility to disable, search, open locks and UMD. UMD is very helpful for the most builds since it opens up alot more options like heal scrolls, cure x wounds wands, shield wands, stone skin wands etc.

    Multiclassing can sure go wrong if you are not knowing what you are doing but if you do then it can add alot of benefits.

    /Khierra
    Cannith - Characters: Khierra - Former The Dominator (U7) (TR 12Mnk/7rog/1ftr) now becoming 13 Rogue/6 Monk/ 1 Druid Staff Orc # Tisseltass - The Prodigy (10rgr/2rog/1mnk) # Smallpoxx (14 pure shintao monk, healing amp) # Azatooth (12ftr/5rog/1mnk) # Eleona (15fvs/2mnk) # Heliga Birgitta (7cleric/3monk, Healing Amp)

  19. #19
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokag2099 View Post
    Looks very nice! Does it solo well?
    That's a tough question to answer, really. As with any melee class, soloing after level 10 very much becomes a question of equipment, the player, and how prepared you are for each individual quest. For the Rogue types especially, losing your sneak damage is really costly, and will lower your dps significantly.

    However, this build is capable of soloing quite well once you get yourself fully kitted out in your teens. Twin radiance weapons combined with shadow fade and blur wands or displacement scrolls will make you almost untouchable, and you'll have the AC to back it up as well.
    Generally speaking, I'd say this combo will solo slightly better than a pure Rogue (you'll have better AC, saves, and possibly wholeness of body) but not quite as well as a pure dark Monk (ToD X 2 or 3 right now is simply disgusting).

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchStriker View Post
    Why multiclass, as myself i wouldnt waste any levels in rogue , just stick pure and have fun whats so wrong with that, if you want to get traps then be a rogue, simple as that.
    IMO the purpose of multiclassing is to combine various game elements together than synergize well, and to have fun while doing it.
    There are things that a pure Monk will be able to do that this build can't; but by the same token there are things this build can do that a pure Monk will never be able to do.

    As I mentioned in my initial post, I offered this build up for those who wanted to use shortswords. Those wishing to stick with pure handwraps should check out the 12 monk / 7 rogue / 1 XXX builds out there, or simply stick pure Monk.
    And fyi, I do have a pure Monk already, so this is just different enough for me that it feels like a completely different character

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    19

    Default

    don't suppose you could add which action points you took at what lvl?
    Would help this newbie out alot

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload