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  1. #1
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    Default Help with a rogue!

    Alright, so I currently have a lvl 8 fighter, tis awesome, but I think my next character (after I hit 20 on the fighter) will be a rogue. I DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT, want to multiclass. I'll save that for another time. Also, please pretend there are no tomes, I'm sure I'll run into one eventually, but lets just go out on a limb and assume not, shall we? Awesome!

    I'm looking to make a super-save-trap-picker-chest-unlocker-door-opener type. Probably wanna go two handed swords.

    I'm looking for input on stat points mostly. I do have drow unlocked, but only 28 points for everything else (though when I do finally make this character it's probably fair to say I'll have 32 unlocked, been pulling off a lot of elite runs recently and racking up on the favor)

    Fighter was easy to do, stat dump into strength and focus on kensei and greataxe. So far it's been awesome to play, however; I think I want a little bit more finesse in the next build and rogue seems like the way to go.

    If you have any advice about stats, feats, enhancements, etc as well I'd be happy to take it, but please keep in mind the prerequisites I have mentioned.

    Thanks in advance for the info!

  2. #2
    Community Member MalkavianX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    I'm looking to make a super-save-trap-picker-chest-unlocker-door-opener type. Probably wanna go two handed swords.
    Just max out your rogue skills every level and you should be fine, no real need to got mechanic PrE. Now, by 2 handed swords do you mean greatsword or falchion? Or do you mean 2 longswords/rapiers/scimitars kinda thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    Fighter was easy to do, stat dump into strength and focus on kensei and greataxe. So far it's been awesome to play, however; I think I want a little bit more finesse in the next build and rogue seems like the way to go.
    Directly related to my above question. If you're going to go rogue you can go strength and use backstab to to huge dps (with, say, a greatsword). Or you can go dex, take weapon finesse and go with a couple light weapons or rapiers. Of course you will then want the 2 weapon fighting line of feats to compliment this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    If you have any advice about stats, feats, enhancements, etc as well I'd be happy to take it, but please keep in mind the prerequisites I have mentioned.
    Moderate str, max dex, int of maybe 13 or 14. The rest depends on what else you want to do with your rogue. Do you want to use UMD? Then you'll need to put some points into cha. Remember a good con means more hit points means you last longer before you gotta rest. Try out an assassin build. That's nasty fun once you reach level 12, nevermind once you reach lvl 18 and your sneak attacks have a chance of being vorpal.

    Benefit: Your lethality is unmatched in battle. Grants an additional +2 bonus to damage on critical hits (before multipliers), +2 bonus to Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently skills and Fortitude saves against poison. Also, any sneak attack that also counts as a vorpal strike (natural 20 followed by critical confirmation) that you make will kill most living targets.
    Last edited by MalkavianX; 05-30-2010 at 01:44 PM.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Just max out your rogue skills every level and you should be fine, no real need to got mechanic PrE. Now, by 2 handed swords do you mean greatsword or falchion? Or do you mean 2 longswords/rapiers/scimitars kinda thing.
    Meaning 2 swords, I'm not sure which is better between longswords/rapiers/scimitars though. I'm always preferenced to critting more often (I like seeing physically larger numbers, makes me happy), but I'm open to anything ^-^



    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Directly related to my above question. If you're going to go rogue you can go strength and use backstab to to huge dps (with, say, a greatsword). Or you can go dex, take weapon finesse and go with a couple light weapons or rapiers. Of course you will then want the 2 weapon fighting line of feats to compliment this.
    I'm thinking a dex build would be a better/slightly easier build as (I believe, lemme know if I'm wrong) dex is related to most rogue skills?



    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Moderate str, max dex, int of maybe 13 or 14. The rest depends on what else you want to do with your rogue. Do you want to use UMD? Then you'll need to put some points into cha.
    Not so interested in UMD, that's for wands, not looking to be a wand user, am fine with potions (I'm not one who ever has an issue with money, on average I consistently hold 20k plat, not gotten higher but never gone lower, will raise I'm sure at higher levels...not once has my repair bill been so ridiculous that the loot from a run hasn't covered and doubled the loot, even when dieing more than 2 or 3 times)



    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Remember a good con means more hit points means you last longer before you gotta rest. Try out an assassin build. That's nasty fun once you reach level 12, nevermind once you reach lvl 18 and your sneak attacks have a chance of being vorpal.

    Benefit: Your lethality is unmatched in battle. Grants an additional +2 bonus to damage on critical hits (before multipliers), +2 bonus to Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently skills and Fortitude saves against poison. Also, any sneak attack that also counts as a vorpal strike (natural 20 followed by critical confirmation) that you make will kill most living targets.
    I like the idea of super sneak attacks, I need alot of practice on getting behind an enemy though, always had an issue with placement and not been the greatest at it. What about race recommendations? Any better than another? I understand with drow I already get the bonus of 32 point build over the 28 point the rest have, but does that instantly make it the better choice? Or is another class (say...halfling or elf) a better idea?
    Pure Fighter build - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=408856 - Solvera on Ghallanda (TR2), feedback is welcomed!

  4. #4
    Community Member MalkavianX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    Meaning 2 swords, I'm not sure which is better between longswords/rapiers/scimitars though. I'm always preferenced to critting more often (I like seeing physically larger numbers, makes me happy), but I'm open to anything ^-^
    With 2wf you will need a normal sized weapon ie. rapier and a light weapon in your off hand. Or just 2 light weapons: Dagger, Handaxe, Kama, Kukri, Light hammer, Light mace, Light pick, Shortsword, Sickle. Or you could opt to use one of your feats to take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. As to what weapons... I'd go with rapiers. But keep in mind how expensive rapiers are in the ah as compared to longswords or scimitars. Khopeshs are nice for big dmg numbers but, again, they are expensive. Also keep in mind what rogues are normally proficient with and what ever race you choose is proficient with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    I'm thinking a dex build would be a better/slightly easier build as (I believe, lemme know if I'm wrong) dex is related to most rogue skills?
    Hide, Move Silently, Open Locks, and tumble are rogue skills that go off of Dex. But from what you've said so far you'll want your dex as high as it can go. A high dex will keep these skills and your AC nice and high. Weapon Finesse + high dex will make your to hit nice and high as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    Not so interested in UMD, that's for wands, not looking to be a wand user, am fine with potions (I'm not one who ever has an issue with money, on average I consistently hold 20k plat, not gotten higher but never gone lower, will raise I'm sure at higher levels...not once has my repair bill been so ridiculous that the loot from a run hasn't covered and doubled the loot, even when dieing more than 2 or 3 times)
    Don't dismiss UMD as a rogue. It's not just for wands. A high UMD will allow you to use weapons, armor and items that you normally wouldn't be allowed to use due to race or alignment. Take a Rapier of Pure Good for example. Say your rogue is True Neutral and you want to use that fancy rapier you found. with a high enough UMD you can. Plus using wands is nice as well because healing wands are generally cheaper than potions. Plus you can get all sorts of wands free from collectors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    I like the idea of super sneak attacks, I need alot of practice on getting behind an enemy though, always had an issue with placement and not been the greatest at it. What about race recommendations? Any better than another? I understand with drow I already get the bonus of 32 point build over the 28 point the rest have, but does that instantly make it the better choice? Or is another class (say...halfling or elf) a better idea?
    For placement I always enter a room ahead of my party and wait for the critters to attack my fellow fodder, um, I mean party members. Then just sneak up in behind and stick 'em someplace painful. As far as race goes there's a few ways you can go. It'll just depend on the benefits of each race.

    Humans get more starting skill points and and extra one each level. Plus they get an extra feat at lvl 1, but no stat adjustments.

    Halflings get +2 dex and -2 con; +1 size bonus to AC and to hit; +4 size bonus to Hide; +2 to jump, listen and move silently; +1 to all saving throws and +2 save vs fear (which will stack together); +1 to attack rolls with thrown weapons (whether or not it stacks with the size bonus I don't remember); and a reduced carrying capacity.

    Drow get +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution; Immunity to sleep spells and effects; +2 Will save bonus against spells or effects; additional +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects;Spell Resistance: 11 (can be further increased by enhancements); +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks; Weapon Proficiency: Drow are automatically proficient with the rapiers, shortswords, and shurikens.

    Elves get +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution; Immunity to sleep spells and effects; +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects; Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow; +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.

    There are benefits to all of the above races. Me personally for my rogue I chose elf. The main reason I chose elf was because the first character I ever played in D&D was an elven rogue. The rest of what elves get is just gravy to me. The best part is their Dragonmark. I only took the least and lesser dragonmarks for my elf. The least gives you Hide skill +2 and Invisibility and the lesser gives you Displacement. It's do-able with a 28 pt build but will of course be better with a 32. 1750 favor isn't that hard to achieve. Or you could just wait for it to go on sale in the ddo store.

    If you're going to wait for your fighter to reach 20 before you make your rogue then keep your eyes out for rogue gear. Anything with pluses to the core rogue skills, invisibility clickies, etc. I would also reccomend you downloading the character planner and planning this character out in advance. That way you can tweak it every now and again as you level up your fighter. You can find it here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194531.

    Hope that helped!

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
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    Really no need to get behind the mobs to sneak attack them. All that is required to get sneak attack bonus is that they arent aware of you. This includes when someone else grabs their aggro. Let other party members grab the hate and light em up.

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    **********EDIT*************
    Thought of another question.

    I started using the DDO planner for a rogue...after some reading I think I like the idea of an assassin build. Asymetric War posted a great rog faq that I read through at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244964 and after starting to tinker with building a character I came across another question...how high should I aim to get my skills? Using a drow character, and assuming reincarnation, I get 30 points to spend on abilities, and I came up with this:
    str 14
    dex 18
    con 14
    int 14
    wis 8
    cha 10

    gives me 10 skill points a level, which is really nice...but as I'm building I noticed alot of enhancements that improve some of the skills (ie: rogue hide, rogue search, rogue open lock, etc, etc, etc)....how high should I be aiming these skills? With 10 points I can put 1 point (max amount) into balance, disable device, hide, jump, listen, move silently, open lock, search, spot, and UMD. And at level one each of these are at 8, 7, 8, 6, 5, 8, 9, 8, 5, and 4 respectively. Add one to each of those numbers and that's the base for each one at level 20 (so you're looking at 27, 26, 27, 25, 24, 27, 28, 27, 24, and 23 respectively, not counting equipment buffs). Are these respectible numbers? Is the stat layout for a dex build decent? I added the points to str so I could dish out a touch more damage, to dex because...well...it's a dex build. Con for a touch of hp, and int for the skill points. This keeps the skill points maxxed out all the way up to lvl 8 (where I got to before I thought of this question). My questions are this. A) Does the layout of the ability points seem alright for an assassin build? and B) are the skills I chose good choices for keeping max?

    NOTE: No, I did not include tumbling. I never use it nor do I think I ever will, I find myself entirely too lazy to reach my pinky down to hit shift as it is, much less shift and a directional button >->;

    *******END EDIT**********

    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    With 2wf you will need a normal sized weapon ie. rapier and a light weapon in your off hand. Or just 2 light weapons: Dagger, Handaxe, Kama, Kukri, Light hammer, Light mace, Light pick, Shortsword, Sickle. Or you could opt to use one of your feats to take Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting. As to what weapons... I'd go with rapiers. But keep in mind how expensive rapiers are in the ah as compared to longswords or scimitars. Khopeshs are nice for big dmg numbers but, again, they are expensive. Also keep in mind what rogues are normally proficient with and what ever race you choose is proficient with.
    As I mentioned, taking the fighter to 20 first, so not worried about price...I'll pick up one of each and compare the crit and damage and speed and see which I like better, but I may bow to your judgement and go with rapiers or khopeshes (I used khopeshes once, they are fun to watch though)



    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Hide, Move Silently, Open Locks, and tumble are rogue skills that go off of Dex. But from what you've said so far you'll want your dex as high as it can go. A high dex will keep these skills and your AC nice and high. Weapon Finesse + high dex will make your to hit nice and high as well.
    Answered my question then, dex is the most important...but would you recommend starting at 16 and adding rest to another stat and take the other points on level ups or starting it capped out at 18 and putting everything into dex on level ups then?

    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Don't dismiss UMD as a rogue. It's not just for wands. A high UMD will allow you to use weapons, armor and items that you normally wouldn't be allowed to use due to race or alignment. Take a Rapier of Pure Good for example. Say your rogue is True Neutral and you want to use that fancy rapier you found. with a high enough UMD you can. Plus using wands is nice as well because healing wands are generally cheaper than potions. Plus you can get all sorts of wands free from collectors.
    Yea...I saw this last night while running. I picked up a wand of heal critical wounds and gave it to a rogue friend while we were duoing....the hireling died and he did a better job with those 28 charges healing me than the hireling had done the entire run. In this case...how do I gain skill points to spend at level up? I know sneak, lock picking, hide, balance, etc. are important, so don't want to run out of points for UMD if I can avoid it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    For placement I always enter a room ahead of my party and wait for the critters to attack my fellow fodder, um, I mean party members. Then just sneak up in behind and stick 'em someplace painful. As far as race goes there's a few ways you can go. It'll just depend on the benefits of each race.

    Humans get more starting skill points and and extra one each level. Plus they get an extra feat at lvl 1, but no stat adjustments.

    Halflings get +2 dex and -2 con; +1 size bonus to AC and to hit; +4 size bonus to Hide; +2 to jump, listen and move silently; +1 to all saving throws and +2 save vs fear (which will stack together); +1 to attack rolls with thrown weapons (whether or not it stacks with the size bonus I don't remember); and a reduced carrying capacity.

    Drow get +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution; Immunity to sleep spells and effects; +2 Will save bonus against spells or effects; additional +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects;Spell Resistance: 11 (can be further increased by enhancements); +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks; Weapon Proficiency: Drow are automatically proficient with the rapiers, shortswords, and shurikens.

    Elves get +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution; Immunity to sleep spells and effects; +2 saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects; Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow; +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.

    There are benefits to all of the above races. Me personally for my rogue I chose elf. The main reason I chose elf was because the first character I ever played in D&D was an elven rogue. The rest of what elves get is just gravy to me. The best part is their Dragonmark. I only took the least and lesser dragonmarks for my elf. The least gives you Hide skill +2 and Invisibility and the lesser gives you Displacement. It's do-able with a 28 pt build but will of course be better with a 32. 1750 favor isn't that hard to achieve. Or you could just wait for it to go on sale in the ddo store.
    Looking at what you list I may very well go with drow or halfling. I'm finding I understand that the favor isn't hard the more I go along, at 550 currently and that's from most things done on normal, very few elites...probably could go back and do some elites and fix that easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    If you're going to wait for your fighter to reach 20 before you make your rogue then keep your eyes out for rogue gear. Anything with pluses to the core rogue skills, invisibility clickies, etc. I would also reccomend you downloading the character planner and planning this character out in advance. That way you can tweak it every now and again as you level up your fighter. You can find it here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=194531.

    Hope that helped!
    Already have the planner, it's how I made the fighter that's in my signature...it's "error" thing is broken so it doesn't tell you if you have any mistakes, but as long as I go only one level at a time it works fine (it breaks if you try to adjust level 6 and already have finished up to level 20, doesn't let you know you don't have the action points if you spend too many).

    As always thank you so much for your info, your rep has earned a point!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorkulon View Post
    Really no need to get behind the mobs to sneak attack them. All that is required to get sneak attack bonus is that they arent aware of you. This includes when someone else grabs their aggro. Let other party members grab the hate and light em up.
    Really? That makes me feel loads better, thanks for the info!
    Last edited by Paroon; 05-31-2010 at 01:54 PM.
    Pure Fighter build - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=408856 - Solvera on Ghallanda (TR2), feedback is welcomed!

  7. #7
    Community Member MalkavianX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    I started using the DDO planner for a rogue...after some reading I think I like the idea of an assassin build. Asymetric War posted a great rog faq that I read through at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=244964 and after starting to tinker with building a character I came across another question...how high should I aim to get my skills? Using a drow character, and assuming reincarnation, I get 30 points to spend on abilities, and I came up with this:[/color]
    First thing, You shouldn't need to spend any action points on skills. Aside from the ones you need for assassin that is. What you put in per level plus any items that add to said rogue skills should be more than enough. Unless you REALLY want to get the 4 or so epic traps that require something like the Mechanic PrE.

    Second, the only real benifit that a drow would have over a halfling, imho, would be the spell resistance. Which would sit at a low % unless you spent AP on it. Try building a drow just the way you want it for assassin, then build a halfling and see which you like better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paroon View Post
    Answered my question then, dex is the most important...but would you recommend starting at 16 and adding rest to another stat and take the other points on level ups or starting it capped out at 18 and putting everything into dex on level ups then?
    I'm more of a min/maxer when it comes to specialist roles. If you just want to be sneaky and kill things from the shadows, how bout something like this?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Halfling Assassin
    Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 222
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 24
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    18
    Dexterity            18                    32
    Constitution         10                    14
    Intelligence         12                    16
    Wisdom               10                    14
    Charisma             14                    18
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 15
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 19
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 19
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               8                    34
    Bluff                 2                    24
    Concentration         0                     2
    Diplomacy             2                     4
    Disable Device        5                    26
    Haggle                2                     4
    Heal                  0                     2
    Hide                  8                    44
    Intimidate            2                     6
    Jump                  6                    29
    Listen                0                     4
    Move Silently         8                    44
    Open Lock             8                    34
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     3
    Search                5                    26
    Spot                  4                    25
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      6                    27
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Didn't bother to put skill spending in, pretty standard put one in each important skill. Until lvl 8 when INT went up from a tome and added the Bluff skill. UMD ends up being 27 and you need 40 for a Heal scroll or 36 for a Raise Dead scroll. But that's 27 not including your +UMD items and your +CHA items.

    Like I said, I made mine an elf so it was a bit different. Slide this template up against your drow template and compare them. Maybe even combine things from one with the other to make a super assassin. (like that ninja guy from the movie Ninja Assassin, 'cept smaller or waaay darker skinned. )

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    This game has been such an absurd grind that I’d rather stick my junk in a beehive than make another toon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    An expansion . .. with a set of packs for each plane to come out every month or two . . . it'll be like crack to Whitney Houston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    Didn't bother to put skill spending in, pretty standard put one in each important skill. Until lvl 8 when INT went up from a tome and added the Bluff skill. UMD ends up being 27 and you need 40 for a Heal scroll or 36 for a Raise Dead scroll. But that's 27 not including your +UMD items and your +CHA items.

    Like I said, I made mine an elf so it was a bit different. Slide this template up against your drow template and compare them. Maybe even combine things from one with the other to make a super assassin. (like that ninja guy from the movie Ninja Assassin, 'cept smaller or waaay darker skinned. )
    But that kind of didn't answer my question ^-^; I think there was a misunderstanding there ^-^;

    The points I put up, str, con, dex, etc. at level 1, are they alright? Have I put too many points in one and not another? And why?

    The skill points I listed, are they high enough UNBUFFED at lvl 20? If so why? What enhancements should I look at to correct those? How far should I go into them.

    Also, please assume NO TOMES, not going to argue the "You'll get them eventually" fact, but they are simply icing on the cake, this is a newbie rogue build despite the assumption of reincarnation of another character. Pretend it's simply a 30 point build that a noob got ahold of and has no idea about tomes until lvl 20. Also don't assume any equipment. I'm looking for base stats here. Equipment will come in another post ^-^

    Reposting the stats to avoid having to read back through:
    Code:
    str  14
    dex  18
    con  14
    int  14
    wis   8
    cha  10
    
                      lvl 1            lvl 20
    balance            8               27
    disable device     7               26
    hide               8               27
    jump               6               25
    listen             5               24
    move silently      8               27
    open lock          9               28
    search             8               27
    spot               5               24
    UMD                4               23
    My questions again:
    1) Are my str, dex, etc points well organized for what I'm looking for in an assassin rogue saving trap disarming door unlocker type build? If not then what is incorrect? Why? What would the change give? What would it lose? etc.
    2) Are my skills at lvl 20 (COMPLETELY UNBUFFED, please keep this fact in mind) ok? If not what is too high? Too low? Why? Should I take some rogue enhancements to fix it? How many?

    And thank you for showing me the build, but I do intend to make my own, as I stated earlier, am looking for information as I tinker with the character planner
    Last edited by Paroon; 06-01-2010 at 01:17 PM.
    Pure Fighter build - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=408856 - Solvera on Ghallanda (TR2), feedback is welcomed!

  9. #9
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    So with a touch of assistance from a friend's significant other I've come up with a rogue build. Keep in mind this is my first attempt, but regardless, I'm looking for input on it. Please note the following points first:
    1) Assume no tomes, yes, they will be found eventually, hooray, but let's just save time and assume they don't exist.
    2) No equipment. I will worry about that later, but for now I don't care. Do know that I'm going to go dual wielding, and probably going to be longswords or daggers, haven't decided which (may even decide to switch it up and go khopesh if I can decide whether or not to go after the feat)
    3) The cake is not a lie.

    And without further ado...my first assassin rogue build:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Assassin Rogue
    Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 202
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (30 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    14
    Dexterity            17                    27
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         16                    16
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             10                    10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    33
    Bluff                 0                     8
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy             0                     2
    Disable Device        7                    31
    Haggle                4                    25
    Heal                 -1                     1
    Hide                  7                    41
    Intimidate            0                     2
    Jump                  6                    27
    Listen                3                    26
    Move Silently         7                    41
    Open Lock             7                    36
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                     5
    Search                7                    30
    Spot                  3                    26
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                n/a                  n/a
    Use Magic Device      4                    25
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device III
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Cheat Death
    Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock III
    Looking for advice, not looking for "This sucks, do this instead", looking for "This isn't going to work for this reason, if you do this instead, it will give you this benefit" or "This is good, a better solution may be this, but both work fine"

    Keep in mind this is a resurrection character, I do have 30 points to spend at creation.
    Pure Fighter build - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=408856 - Solvera on Ghallanda (TR2), feedback is welcomed!

  10. #10
    Community Member hcarr's Avatar
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    for skills.

    jump you dont need that much. usually 10 points is enough with your str and a potion you can jump about anywhere you will need to. remember it caps at 40 even though you can get it higher.

    listen. only one place I know it will tell you where a trap is but its not that big of deal with a maxed out spot with a spot item on you will see everthing anyway. Points are better put other places

    tumble you will want at least some tumble helps with fall damage etc. at least take one so you have the skill. I usually go up to 10-15 so I can get high enough to not worry about the titan. not necessary but my preference.

    swim. put a couple points here if you have any left over. agian not required but helpfull when you need. crucible swim etc. new upcoming mod underwater combat. at most would put 10 ranks in it.

    diplomacy. good skill to have if you can get to decent level to dump aggro on the hapless afk fighter. I always forget to hit it so its a sort of if not going to use it why bother for me but works nice if you do.



    would say diplomacy and tumble would be first place i would put my listen/extr jump skill points.


    feats

    lightning reflexes is not worth it for you.

    weapon focus slashing meh also

    improved crit ? , power attack would be better choices.



    enhancments.

    you dont need improved trap sense esp since dex build.
    will not need open lock

    take racial toughness and search enhancements instead.
    more lvls of subtle backstabing as well.

    on search enhancments you can split between racial and rogue

  11. #11
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    Thank you much hcarr for the info ^-^ Did some tinkering with the build. Got rid of the enhancements (Saw why you said lightning reflexes was useless and such) So I think it's a bit better for what I'm looking for, what do you think?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Assassin Rogue
    Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 222
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 20
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (30 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    14
    Dexterity            17                    27
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence         16                    16
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             10                    10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    33
    Bluff                 0                     8
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy             0                     2
    Disable Device        7                    28
    Haggle                4                    25
    Heal                 -1                     1
    Hide                  7                    41
    Intimidate            0                     2
    Jump                  6                    22
    Listen                3                    21
    Move Silently         7                    41
    Open Lock             7                    33
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                     5
    Search                7                    35
    Spot                  3                    27
    Swim                  2                     9
    Tumble                n/a                  15
    Use Magic Device      4                    25
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Elven Perception I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elven Perception II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Search I
    Enhancement: Rogue Search II
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Cheat Death
    Enhancement: Elven Perception III
    Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
    I did decide not to go with the diplomacy. Takes alot of work for me to remember to click trip all the time on my fighter as it is, pretty sure diplomacy would work the same way >-<
    Pure Fighter build - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=408856 - Solvera on Ghallanda (TR2), feedback is welcomed!

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    TWD is a weak feat; I would replace it with Power Attack. Likewise OTWF is a weak feat come lvl 18; at that point your to-hit should be high enough that the extra +2 is unnecessary. Not sure what I would replace it with, though. Also I would take Crippling Strike after Imp Evasion; and I'd rather have Slippery Mind & Defensive Roll than Skill Mastery.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    TWD is a weak feat; I would replace it with Power Attack. Likewise OTWF is a weak feat come lvl 18; at that point your to-hit should be high enough that the extra +2 is unnecessary. Not sure what I would replace it with, though. Also I would take Crippling Strike after Imp Evasion; and I'd rather have Slippery Mind & Defensive Roll than Skill Mastery.
    That was the problem I was running into, later on the feats just weren't there that seemed as high in demand. I debated crippling strike and very well may change that, and will probably agree with slippery mind...I don't find defensive roll to be useful though. If I'm below that hp threshhold and the healer hasn't healed me then there are bigger issues than cutting the damage in half x.X I really shouldn't be taking that much damage anyway, I'm going on the assumption the party is going to know what they're doing :P
    Pure Fighter build - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=408856 - Solvera on Ghallanda (TR2), feedback is welcomed!

  14. #14
    Community Member hcarr's Avatar
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    otwf is ok for a feat depending but what are you using for weapons rapier is only heavy finessible weapon. I would look at dropping suble 4 and taking the drow to hit and damage first tier to cover at least one of the missed to hit and use the feat for something else.

    twfd is sort of a waist on your build because you are not going to reach a benificial ac by endgame. going from 36 to a 37 ac isnt going to acomplish much for you. if you have all the ac toys to get to the mid 50s already then dodge/combat expertise would be a better choices.


    feats would look at instead of twfd and otwf is

    improved crit, power attack, a second toughness or skill focus umd. If looking for ac combat expertise.

    improved crit. more burst damage all the better

    power attack. with a high dex you can leave on majority of the time for most rogues. you have alot of attacks
    5 pts a hit adds up. Since you have fighter past life feat you could leave on 100% would be
    my guess.

    toughness I find getting over 350 hp + stoneskin and displacement sort of the magic number to decent survivability
    and not needing constant healing attention and being a mana sponge.

    skill focus umd if it gets you close to only failing on a 1 on a heal scroll without having to swap out alot of gear
    its can add alot to your survivability

    combat expertise. getting to good ac and almost unhittible is usefull at times. agian with fighter past life feat going
    you will have little issue hitting with this on.

    My personal choices of the ones I mentioned would be improved crit and power attack with your build and information you have given.

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