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  1. #1
    Community Member Rakian_Knight's Avatar
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    Default New Rogue-Like Class

    After playing for a while, I've noticed something. For every main "role" of a party member (tank, healer, DPS, Caster) their are at least two choices for a nonmulti-classing character (Tanks=Pally,Fighter/Healer=Favored Soul, Cleric/etc.) with the exception of trap monkey. A party NEEDS a rogue to do this so my sugestion is to create a new class that allow another option.

    I have a rogue and it is a fun class to play and with the trapmaking and other fixes to the rogue class that are comming I expect it to become more useful then just a trap monkey. Just a couple classes that I can think of off the top of my head for this could be ninja (Complete Adventurer) or Spelltheif (Complete Adventurer). Each one of these would add the normal rogue trap monkey with different abilities that could help out in different ways. Ninja (if monks aren't too much like one already) I could see easily transfering over from pnp to DDO.

    Again these are just my thoughts so don't feel the need to personally bash me.

    ~Rakian_Knight

  2. #2
    Community Member Thriand's Avatar
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    great, then we would have to listen to people whine that another perfectly fine class is gimp because they decided to take such worthwhile feats as skillfocus: search and nimble fingers.

    I wouldn't mind another roguelike class being added, but I just don't think traps are a big enough deal to warrant the resources neccesary to make a class like this before we get things like druids.
    Last edited by Thriand; 05-19-2010 at 07:43 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Symar-FangofLloth's Avatar
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    The "best" class to add, in my opinion, is the Artificer. Mostly because it's Eberron-specific.

    However, implementing and balancing it could prove to be as much of a pain as the druid supposedly is. Even though they're halfway there with the implementation with features such as Handwraps and AA Imbues.

    So it'd be a buff/trap class. With something else needed to make up for the lack of crafting. And it's specific breed of buffs means it will always have the right weapon for the job, lending it towards a combatant as well.



    This topic has come up before. I used to be opposed to it. But as long as they keep the class abilities (aside from trap-disabling; trap-setting should still be rogue-specific unless the new class spends a feat on it) divergent enough, I'm all for it.
    Former Xoriat-er. Embrace the Madness.

  4. #4
    Community Member Rakian_Knight's Avatar
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    @Thriand: Lets the noobs make mistakes, its how people learn. Did everyone have a perfect first character when they came into this game? I know my first rogue was a horror fest of bad choices on feats, enhancements, and just about anything else you could think of. After 8 levels of playing him and getting an idea of what worked in the game, I sold all his stuff and sent it to my wizard and recreated him.

    Also I agree with the fact that Druid should come first, simply because everyone has been waiting for so long for one.

    @Symar-FangofLloth: I was surprised to not find one when I first joined the game because of this being eberron.

  5. #5
    Community Member Doxmaster's Avatar
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    I've always wondered...why cant bards do traps without dipping into rogue?

  6. #6
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doxmaster View Post
    I've always wondered...why cant bards do traps without dipping into rogue?
    That was a pen & paper change. If memory serves, the 2nd edition Bards could get some Rogue-ish skills, but in 3rd edition they were excluded from them (and had an alignment change as well).

    Anyways, as for classes, if you want another Rogue-ish class, my suggestions would be Scout, Lurk, or Soulknife.

    However, given that we've been waiting 4 years for Druids, and it looks as though they're still 1-2 years away, don't hold your breath

  7. #7
    Community Member GhoulsTouch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakian_Knight View Post
    After playing for a while, I've noticed something. For every main "role" of a party member (tank, healer, DPS, Caster) their are at least two choices for a nonmulti-classing character (Tanks=Pally,Fighter/Healer=Favored Soul, Cleric/etc.) with the exception of trap monkey. A party NEEDS a rogue to do this so my sugestion is to create a new class that allow another option.

    I have a rogue and it is a fun class to play and with the trapmaking and other fixes to the rogue class that are comming I expect it to become more useful then just a trap monkey. Just a couple classes that I can think of off the top of my head for this could be ninja (Complete Adventurer) or Spelltheif (Complete Adventurer). Each one of these would add the normal rogue trap monkey with different abilities that could help out in different ways. Ninja (if monks aren't too much like one already) I could see easily transfering over from pnp to DDO.

    Again these are just my thoughts so don't feel the need to personally bash me.

    ~Rakian_Knight
    It would be cool to rerig traps that will only trigger and harm enemies even should the party pass through them unscathed from then on.

  8. #8
    Community Member krud's Avatar
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    meh... since it only takes one level of rogue to get your trap skills, i'm not sure there is any great need for another trap class. You can make most any class into a trap class with just one or two levels of rogue. You can have a tanking trapmonkey, casting trapmonkey, and healer trapmonkey. It barely affects the main function of the character. I'm not sure why it needs to be non-multiclass.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakian_Knight View Post
    After playing for a while, I've noticed something. For every main "role" of a party member (tank, healer, DPS, Caster) their are at least two choices for a nonmulti-classing character (Tanks=Pally,Fighter/Healer=Favored Soul, Cleric/etc.) with the exception of trap monkey.
    Stop right there! "Trapmonkey" is not a main role. Rogues are a DPS class, first and foremost, which is a role they share with rangers, fighters, and monks, as well as some bards, sorcs, wizards, clerics, and FvSs.

    "Trapmonkey" is a skillset, and it's one that is completely optional. Many quests are made easier by having someone who can disarm traps, but many more contain no traps at all.

    Compare to the main roles of DPS, Healing, and Tanking. All quests contain monsters, which do damage. Less than a dozen can be completed without killing any monsters. Most raids, although not as many quests, require a tank.

    None of these roles, however, is as strictly enforced in DDO as in other MMOs.

    And on a completely separate but far more practical note: Druids have been coming "real soon now" for almost 4 years, how much longer do you thing it will be for the next class after that, and is it really worth that developement time for such a marginal utility as "another trapmonkey class"?

  10. #10
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    Default Artificer would be a nice addition

    A little while ago I made a couple suggestions for an implimentation of Artificer that wouldn't be too difficult. well in theory anyway


    Artificer

    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: d6
    Skill Points: 4+Int
    Skill List: Concentration, Disable Device, Haggle, Open Locks, Search, Use Magic Device.

    BAB: ¾
    Fortitude: poor
    Reflex: poor
    Will: good

    Level 1: Disable Trap, Clockwork Companion (Iron Defender)
    Level 2: Artificer Power +1
    Level 3: Artificer Knowledge +1
    Level 4: Artificer power +2, Bonus Feat
    Level 5: Clockwork Companion (Mithril Defender)
    Level 6: Artificer Knowledge +2, Artificer Power +3, Metamagic Spell Trigger
    Level 7:
    Level 8: Artificer Power +4, Bonus Feat
    Level 9: Artificer Knowledge +3
    Level 10: Artificer Power +5, Clockwork Companion (Shield Guardian)
    Level 11: Metamagic Spell Completion
    Level 12: Artificer Knowledge +4, Artificer Power +6, Bonus Feat
    Level 13: Skill Mastery
    Level 14: Artificer Power +7
    Level 15: Artificer Knowledge +5, Clockwork Companion (Iron Golem)
    Level 16: Artificer Power +8, Bonus Feat
    Level 17: Improved Skill Mastery
    Level 18: Artificer Knowledge +6, Artificer Power +9
    Level 19:
    Level 20: Artificer Power +10, Bonus Feat, Clockwork Companion (Warforged Titan)

    Disable Trap: Can Search for and Disable Traps like a Rogue.

    Clockwork Companion: golems that the Artificer can create. Only one may be active at a time. Companions follow the commands of the Artificer as per Hirelings.

    Artificer Power: Increases the Caster Level spell effects cast from items by the listed amount to a maximum of the Artificers Class level.

    Artificer Knowledge: Increases the DC of spell effects cast from items by the listed amount.

    Bonus Feats: As per the Wizard Bonus Feat list

    Metamagic Spell Trigger (active): Metamagic Feats may be applied to Wands while this Feat is active. The metamagic feats cost the requisite Spell Points that they would if applied to a spell.

    Metamagic Spell Completion (active): Metamagic Feats may be applied to Scrolls while this Feat is active. The metamagic feats cost the requisite Spell Points that they would if applied to a spell.

    Skill Mastery: As Rogue Special Ability. +1 to all Skills

    Improved Skill Mastery: +2 to all Skills (stacks with Skill Mastery for a total of +3)



    Infusions: For ease of Transition Infusions are essentially Spells by another name. There are 6 levels worth and the progression would match up similar to the DDO bard spell progression and Spell Point pool.

    These “spells” would take the form of party buffs and Construct healing and destruction effects mostly. Some of the Buff effects could be similar to how the Arcane Archer effects opperate adding effects to weapon strikes.


    Enhancements:
    Artificer Concentration 1-4
    Artificer: Disable Device 1-4
    Artificer: Open Lock 1-4
    Artificer: Search 1-4
    Artificer: Use Magic Device 1-4
    Artificer: Intelligence 1-3
    Artificer: Charisma 1-2
    Artificer: Wand and Scroll Mastery 1-4
    Artificer: Wand and Scroll Heightening 1-4
    Artificer: Wand and Scroll Penetration 1-4
    Artificer: Reserve 1-4 (spell points)
    Artificer: Force Manipulation 1-4
    Artificer: Deadly Force 1-4
    Artificer: Lineage of Force 1-4
    Artificer Improved (Insert Metamagic Feat) 1-x where x= 2-4


    Well there are some ideas


    Aesop
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
    Rule 3: People are stupid. You, me everyone... expect it
    more rules to come in a different sig

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