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  1. #1
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    Default Best solo build for all of levels 4 to 20?

    I've been building solo-only characters since the F2P/P2P system was launched last year. I've tried just about everything in the interim and I've come to the conclusion that every build has weaknesses that make it unpalatable at some point in the process of leveling.

    Melee builds that don't include at least a level of Monk and some Wisdom all wind up with AC too low to avoid random over-run deaths at some point, usually by level 10 or so. Builds that can't self-heal effectively are prone to devastating random assaults in which they lose a lot of hit points and then can't make the next shrine. A few crits in a row can produce the effect or just one failed Will save in which they're held for the critical seconds needed to produce 3 or 4 crits. Casters die very quickly when things go wrong and having a spell resisted or saved against at the wrong time usually means starting over, often when the end-boss is the mob who resisted.

    The most solid builds I've tried have been Cleric/Monks and Paladin/Monk/Rogues. The self-healing is there, the saves are there, evasion is there, the Cleric/Monk even has the potential to morph into a true caster once the spells that make that worthwhile are available. Still, there are mobs and situations that begin to happen fairly early, as early as 8 or 9, where the builds are at a disadvantage and basically need to get lucky to get by the various challenges.

    I've even tried the old mainstay of the Warforged Wizard, which is a bit weak until Firewall becomes available and then suffers greatly for a bunch of levels when it encounters fire immune packs. This build seems like the strongest of them all for soloing except against fire immune mobs and when it runs into vampires which it can't hope to kill due to their strong regeneration and it's fairly limited mana pool.

    I've looked at the Exploiterr build and while it looks great at 20 it seems to have gaps of undesirability on the way there, like the long run with no evasion, and the fact that it is basically a wand-whipper for most of it's existence leading to heavy expenses early on in terms of gold for the wands. The Exploiterr also is a massive gear hound, looking for optimal gear at almost every level and needing top end game gear at 20 to do what it does.

    The question I have is: what is the best solo build to go from 4 to 20 without the ability to massively twink the toon out and without buying pots from the store?

  2. #2
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    WF sorcerer, hands down.


    go with 14 str, 16 con, 16 cha

    skill: concentration

    feats:

    1. Toughness
    3. Extend
    6. Maximize
    9. Empower
    12. Quicken
    15 Heighten
    18. Gravy (SF necro or spell pen)

    focus on self buffs and melee with a 2 hander from 4-8...

    level 8:

    train to DA orange or red, drop a firewall, jump around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off, reconstruct as needed...move on.

    Last WF arcane i built for farming IQ stuff when im bored took me 6 days to level to 19, and he wasn't even a full time project as i spent at least the same amount of time on alts as I did "casually" leveling him, almost exclusively solo too btw, its just that easy.

    The last half level ill casually level him to just by running stuff that he would be running at 20 anyway, no rush.
    Last edited by gwlech; 05-14-2010 at 10:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    Well you need to define your goals and criteria a bit better.

    Is your goal just to level to 20th level, or is it to play most of the content on the way to 20th level.

    One can readily solo to 20th level a WF Arcane, or fleshy Cleric or FvS with minimum twinkage. Most melee focused builds will really require some degree of twinkage to get there easily. Simple because a caster class gets its most powerful aspect (Spells) from simply leveling up.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwlech View Post
    WF sorcerer, hands down.


    go with 14 str, 16 con, 16 cha

    skill: concentration

    feats:

    1. Toughness
    3. Extend
    6. Maximize
    9. Empower
    12. Quicken
    15 Heighten
    18. Gravy

    focus on self buffs and melee with a 2 hander from 4-8...

    level 8:

    train to DA orange or red, drop a firewall, jump around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off, reconstruct as needed...move on.
    The Wizards have followed this progression almost exactly. It's not mana that gets them it's the places where Firewall is not useful and they've already gotten out of melee-able situations, along about level 9 or so. What makes the WF Sorceror better than the WF Wizard except for the bigger mana pool?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    Well you need to define your goals and criteria a bit better.

    Is your goal just to level to 20th level, or is it to play most of the content on the way to 20th level.
    I want to actually play the game solo from level 4 to 20, meaning play it for fun not to level. I'll probably optimize to try to solo raids when I get to 20 and do that for fun, while working on getting other characters to 20 solo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    One can readily solo to 20th level a WF Arcane, or fleshy Cleric or FvS with minimum twinkage. Most melee focused builds will really require some degree of twinkage to get there easily. Simple because a caster class gets its most powerful aspect (Spells) from simply leveling up.
    I know I could get the WF Wizard to 20 easily by just avoiding a third of the non-raid content and re-doing the stuff he can manage fairly easily for XP. I want to actually do all of the non-raid content on the way to 20 solo. My ideal toon, which is completely unrealistic, would be to solo a rogue to 20 doing every non-raid instance along the way. I recognize that this is unrealistic due to the rogue's extreme weakness in actually fighting mobs solo after 7 or so.

    I should say here that none of my solo toons have ever repeated a dungeon on the same difficulty level except in Korthos and then only to get Coin Lord faction for the extra bag slot. I really like doing each instance once and then moving on, maybe with a return to the instance a level later on hard.
    Last edited by KoobTheProud; 05-14-2010 at 10:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member gwlech's Avatar
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    Sorcerer means bigger sp pool, free spells, faster casting.

    Bigger sp pool means you don't have to conserve as much, and it gives you a bigger margin for error

    Free Spells literally means you dont have to stop to inscribe everything you might use (which btw when i level a wiz like this, I dont bother inscribing anything until i finally feel like grouping)

    Faster casting = more nukes, insta-kills, less time buffing etc
    Last edited by gwlech; 05-14-2010 at 10:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    ...

    I've even tried the old mainstay of the Warforged Wizard, which is a bit weak until Firewall becomes available and then suffers greatly for a bunch of levels when it encounters fire immune packs. This build seems like the strongest of them all for soloing except against fire immune mobs and when it runs into vampires which it can't hope to kill due to their strong regeneration and it's fairly limited mana pool.
    ...
    1. Cone of Cold/Polar Ray takes care of most Fire immune mobs.
    2. Vampires are obliterated by Wall of Fire/Scorching Ray.

    I'm currently leveling a WF Wiz/Rog/Barb on Cannith - what content exactly are you avoiding solo on such a build?
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  8. #8
    Community Member Yajerman01's Avatar
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    A WF 16/2/2 Bard/Fighter/Barbarian is pretty good as well. (Warchanter)

    18 Str or 16
    17 Con 18
    10 Int 10
    12 CHA 14

    Your not landing alot of CC's but you can easily self heal, high UMD - good HP Excellent buffs Fascinate for when your really in trouble and plenty of DPS.

    Its a flavor build but it is something not everyone is doing.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    1. Cone of Cold/Polar Ray takes care of most Fire immune mobs.
    2. Vampires are obliterated by Wall of Fire/Scorching Ray.

    I'm currently leveling a WF Wiz/Rog/Barb on Cannith - what content exactly are you avoiding solo on such a build?
    I haven't tried a WF Wizard multi-class yet. I can think of a lot of level 6 to 10 content that is just very inhospitable to solo wizards generally at the appropriate levels. House Kundarak has several instances in which moderate melee is not enough to get the job done offensively and the mobs hit hard enough to drain the mana pool very quickly and you don't have Firewall yet. Delera's Graveyard is very inhospitable until you get Firewall and so is the Necropolis. I'm not sure that Ataraxia's Haven is doable either, although it might be - the Duergar come in small groups not waves and they hit hard enough from range with all the archery and casting that even with Firewall I'm not sure it's completely manageable. The wildlife there hits very hard also and has high reflex saves to halve the damage from Firewall. The other place I'd wonder about would be Haywire's Foundry, the golems are really nasty and some of them are fire immune.

    What's your split on classes? Wizard x/Rog 1/Barb 1?
    Last edited by KoobTheProud; 05-14-2010 at 10:39 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yajerman01 View Post
    A WF 16/2/2 Bard/Fighter/Barbarian is pretty good as well. (Warchanter)

    18 Str or 16
    17 Con 18
    10 Int 10
    12 CHA 14

    Your not landing alot of CC's but you can easily self heal, high UMD - good HP Excellent buffs Fascinate for when your really in trouble and plenty of DPS.

    Its a flavor build but it is something not everyone is doing.
    I've been thinking about trying a Bard multi next. It has the self-healing and offensive potential. The question I have is how you survive with AC as low as that build is likely to have? My experience has been that if you are meleeing without fairly high AC you're going to get randomly killed a fair amount when a couple of mobs crit back to back. The packs in Haywires are the perfect example of what I'm worried about there. The golem pairs and triads there are also a good example, since they hit hard, take forever to kill even with Power Attack on and leave you weakened and unable to heal. Does Cursed Wound not effect repair spells?

  11. #11
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    I haven't tried a WF Wizard multi-class yet. I can think of a lot of level 6 to 10 content that is just very inhospitable to solo wizards generally at the appropriate levels. House Kundarak has several instances in which moderate melee is not enough to get the job done offensively and the mobs hit hard enough to drain the mana pool very quickly and you don't have Firewall yet. Delera's Graveyard is very inhospitable until you get Firewall and so is the Necropolis...
    Yeah, I normally avoid the undead laden content (except the Catacombs) until I get Wall of Fire at 8th level, at which point they become cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    ... I'm not sure that Ataraxia's Haven is doable either, although it might be - the Duergar come in small groups not waves and they hit hard enough from range with all the archery and casting that even with Firewall I'm not sure it's completely manageable. The wildlife there hits very hard also and has high reflex saves to halve the damage from Firewall...
    Archer/Caster heavy quests are indeed more difficult - unlike melee who crowd around trying to gut you. I suggest using spells like Suggestion on the archers, and just meleeing the survivors.

    A Docent of Invulnerability and a Docent of Spear Block are great to have.

    Oh, and you're thinking of Fireball... Wall of Fire has no save.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    ... The other place I'd wonder about would be Haywire's Foundry, the golems are really nasty and some of them are fire immune...
    All of the trash in Haywire's Foundry are cook-able - it's the end fight with the Iron Golems (and Arnold) that you're refering to, correct? I just lay into them with Haste, Rage (spell), Transmuting/GCB and self heals.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    ...What's your split on classes? Wizard x/Rog 1/Barb 1?
    Currently it's 11 Wiz/2 Rog/1 Barb... soon to be 12 Wiz
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post

    All of the trash in Haywire's Foundry are cook-able - it's the end fight with the Iron Golems (and Arnold) that you're refering to, correct? I just lay into them with Haste, Rage (spell), Transmuting/GCB and self heals.
    Ok, I see the trash Iron Golems walking around in lava and I figured they had significant fire resistance. I guess it's not high enough to stand up to Firewall. I haven't actually tried that instance with a Wizard yet. Can you repair yourself through cursed wound?

    The general issue I had with my WF Wizards was the fact that they had to be several levels above a lot of the content to do it well. I'm willing to do that but it takes a lot of the edge off and makes the game less fun to play. The Cleric/Monk and Pally/Monk/Rogue builds have all been right at level or a little bit lower than even when they eventually got blocked by certain circumstances.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    Currently it's 11 Wiz/2 Rog/1 Barb... soon to be 12 Wiz
    Interesting build, are you going to reincarnate out of Barb once you get up high and melee is no longer an option? I've thought about doing a shifting build that splashes a level or two of something early on and then goes more pure as the game gets tougher and DC's start to matter more later on.

  13. #13
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    Ok, I see the trash Iron Golems walking around in lava and I figured they had significant fire resistance. I guess it's not high enough to stand up to Firewall. I haven't actually tried that instance with a Wizard yet. Can you repair yourself through cursed wound?
    I was talking about VoN4 - were you thinking of Haywire's Groto in the Black Anvil Forest? Iron Golems IIRC are healed by fire, so you'll want to melee them until you get Disintegrate.

    The only Cursed Wound that I know of that can't be repaired is the curse you get in the end fight of New Invasion in Shavarath.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    The general issue I had with my WF Wizards was the fact that they had to be several levels above a lot of the content to do it well. I'm willing to do that but it takes a lot of the edge off and makes the game less fun to play. The Cleric/Monk and Pally/Monk/Rogue builds have all been right at level or a little bit lower than even when they eventually got blocked by certain circumstances.
    It all depends on the content, I guess. I do a lot of quests higher than my level, but it's probably more because of my familiarity with the content. Tangleroot is a good example of that.

    Now that you don't get more XP from doing a quest over your level, I've lost a lot of motivation to do that. I know you are wanting to experience quests at the appropriate level, but for me it's about racing to cap to see how my latest build will perform in the end game.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post

    Interesting build, are you going to reincarnate out of Barb once you get up high and melee is no longer an option? I've thought about doing a shifting build that splashes a level or two of something early on and then goes more pure as the game gets tougher and DC's start to matter more later on.
    No, my wizards (even the casting ones) do a lot of melee in both groups and soloing. The key is to know when it's appropriate - something I'm still working on

    The level of barb doesn't lower the DCs of the spells - it's the barb + the rogue levels that do that.

    When (if) I TR, I'd replace the Barb with a Fighter level to recover the feat spent on the TR'ed Wizard feat. The movement speed is addictive, though...
    Last edited by Phidius; 05-14-2010 at 11:31 AM.
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  14. #14
    Community Member Yajerman01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    I've been thinking about trying a Bard multi next. It has the self-healing and offensive potential. The question I have is how you survive with AC as low as that build is likely to have? My experience has been that if you are meleeing without fairly high AC you're going to get randomly killed a fair amount when a couple of mobs crit back to back. The packs in Haywires are the perfect example of what I'm worried about there. The golem pairs and triads there are also a good example, since they hit hard, take forever to kill even with Power Attack on and leave you weakened and unable to heal. Does Cursed Wound not effect repair spells?

    I am currently in the process of leveling this character and havent reached the point where AC has been a big concern. More of a concern for me is fortification. Getting my AC high enough to have %50 miss rate is my ultimate goal. As to the remaining concerns, its all about having the right weapon on for the right mob, strategizing, knowing your next opponent before the next battle.

    Hopefully my AC will be hovering around the mid 30's without twinking it too much by the time I enter the VONS series. Its spell selection that is the concern for me atm. I am fairly new to the Bard scene but im starting to figure out what works best (for the moment).

    Displacement and all th upper tier Bard spells will be kicking in once I enter the Vons. So far though hes a beast. I do have 1 twink Item which is the Carnifax, so when im in trouble running backwards while swinging seems to be doing the job - that and a few heals in between.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    I know I could get the WF Wizard to 20 easily by just avoiding a third of the non-raid content and re-doing the stuff he can manage fairly easily for XP. I want to actually do all of the non-raid content on the way to 20 solo.
    Like you know, a WF caster is the best solo character for getting to level 20, because you can just avoid those quests where that class doesn't work well..

    But to build a character that can solo ALL content???

    Pretty tough... And that's good... because if it was easy or even possible, then that one build would be run by 75% of the players... And that's no fun...

    In my opinion, your best bet is a Paladin/Rogue... 2 levels of rogue, rest paladin... great saves, evasion... You get lay-on-hands for in-combat quick heals, and you have UMD to use heal scrolls between combat.

    But you're still not going to be able to solo everything at or near level.
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    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    In my opinion, your best bet is a Paladin/Rogue... 2 levels of rogue, rest paladin... great saves, evasion... You get lay-on-hands for in-combat quick heals, and you have UMD to use heal scrolls between combat.
    I've run a Paladin/Monk/Rogue using robes and handwraps in combination with Divine Might and Exalted Smite. It sounds like you're suggesting a plate Pally with sword and board? I really think I need to be able to get AC comfortably above 40 without twinking much by level 10 or any melee begins to break down under the increased damage the mobs do. Do you think the offense on a sword and board Pally would be strong enough? I'd be willing to spec either Bastard Sword or Khopesh to get over the top if that would help. Secondly how well does Evasion work for toons wearing plate and carrying a shield? I've tended to go robes when I wanted an Evasive melee. The Pal/Mnk/Rog basically never takes trap damage at all and very little damage from evadable spells because she has a 22 reflex save at level 10. Can I come close to that with a sword and board Pally?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    But you're still not going to be able to solo everything at or near level.
    The things the Pal/Mnk/Rog cannot solo at 10:

    The vampire end boss in Church and the Cult - he just regens too fast and his AC is too high.

    The beholder at the end of caverns of Korromar - I've tried many times and only killed him once and I died immediately after he did in a simultaneous kill, I only got him because of a lucky Exalted Smite that did a huge amount of damage with both hands.

    Haywire's instance in the Black Anvil Forest - Something always gets me in the end there although all the fights are doable there's just too little chance of avoiding a bad result somewhere along the way. The expense of doing the instance is also really high and it drains funds, since I need a Remove Curse wand and a Cure Moderate Wounds wand for when other healing resources are exhausted.

    Would a Paladin 8/Rogue 2 with sword and board be handling any of those?

  17. #17
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud
    The things the Pal/Mnk/Rog cannot solo at 10:

    The vampire end boss in Church and the Cult - he just regens too fast and his AC is too high.
    Providing you don't disable the fire traps they can be used to kill the vampire on hard or elite given some time and creative positioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud
    The beholder at the end of caverns of Korromar - I've tried many times and only killed him once and I died immediately after he did in a simultaneous kill, I only got him because of a lucky Exalted Smite that did a huge amount of damage with both hands.
    When in doubt on R'zzix, stay behind the circular door area and use ranged weaponry. R'zzix is too large to float through (providing nothing changed), so it provides some safe ground for you to snipe from.

    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud
    Haywire's instance in the Black Anvil Forest - Something always gets me in the end there although all the fights are doable there's just too little chance of avoiding a bad result somewhere along the way. The expense of doing the instance is also really high and it drains funds, since I need a Remove Curse wand and a Cure Moderate Wounds wand for when other healing resources are exhausted.
    This one is likely the trickiest of the 3 you mentioned. Trying to melee down an inevitable is a painful thing to do due to the Sonic and Thunder Punches (as the stun makes it quite a challenge). After the 1 minute timer on the auto-shut door elapses and you can escape the room though you can try to use the landmines to cause damage in the previous hallways if you didn't disarm them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Like you know, a WF caster is the best solo character for getting to level 20, because you can just avoid those quests where that class doesn't work well..

    But to build a character that can solo ALL content???

    Pretty tough... And that's good... because if it was easy or even possible, then that one build would be run by 75% of the players... And that's no fun...

    In my opinion, your best bet is a Paladin/Rogue... 2 levels of rogue, rest paladin... great saves, evasion... You get lay-on-hands for in-combat quick heals, and you have UMD to use heal scrolls between combat.

    But you're still not going to be able to solo everything at or near level.
    IIRC Tukaw can/has soloed everything up to VOD, Sorc/Pally/Rogue, i could be wrong on that, but last time i knew that was the case.

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    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    His build is great, but very very gear heavy in the demonstrations.

    Personally, Monk-Wizard is my current favorite (warforged). I find it can solo well and can be a great team player. The monk-cleric is well documented but having a monk cleric I have to say it seems to run out of resources fast so I'm liking the monk-wizard at present.

    - Both net bonus feats, which are a huge boon.
    - Even with a tanked wisdom, monk+wizard gets you a good will save base. You can also take Iron Will as a monk feat if you're so inclined.
    - TWF or THF works. If you tank dex, take THF + insightful reflexes. If you keep dex, consider the TWF tree (though you'll only get
    - You don't have to be in a monk stance all the time, but the attack speed helps ... CON stance for DR 2/- at low levels rocks and STR is always handy when you need to beat on something.
    - A bit of searching can net you solid caster staves, allowing you to stay in the stance if you want to do a STR/INT build.
    - Wiz bonus feats can net you (easily) extend, empower, maximize by around 11/12 ... and quicken to follow. That leaves you two monk feats you can spend on combat (THF, PA, TWF, finesse, whatever) or defenses (toughness, iron will) ... plus by 10 you have four normal feats (mental toughness, insightful reflexes if you tanked dex, OTWF if you feel like it, more combat feats, etc.)
    - For a more solo focused build, 1 rogue then some wiz, then monk 1 ... monk 2 after wall of fire. You're delayed somewhat so levels 7-8 can seem cumbersome if you want to group and don't have wall of fire (it is expected at that point) ... but you need the rogue to really get the most out of soloing.



    I've got a TWF and THF version i'm leveling right now. The TWF has a level of rogue and can do traps. With a bit of frugal shopping I've got a decent set of kamas (paralyzer, cursespewer, banisher, smiters, etc.) as well as some metalline blunts, a caster set (magi/sup-potency) and some crit-fishers for when I'm spamming holds (thundering-maiming pick + seeker). The biggest problem I've had is not access to decent enough gear (I've found it relatively cheaply on the AH) but inventory space having the caster gears, the rogue items and a brace of TWF melee pairs. TWF, ITWF, OTWF, PA, empower, maximize, quicken, extend, iron will ... all there.

    The THF version is 7th or 8th right now. It's all INT/CON/STR. Since I had feat space I may go Pale Master for fun and have tacked on the spell penetration and focus feats. A bit less on the melee, but it isn't quite as needed since he's got more STR and is swinging 2-hs. I'll still switch to utility staves around 8-12 (paralyzer, disrupter, etc.)


    The nice thing about each is that they seem to solo well with minimal gear. I just started moving the tangleroot +3 items off of the TWF build (and it's 14). I'm a pretty new player (<6 months, recently up'd to VIP) so I don't have the mess of named items, greensteels, etc. sitting in my bank. If you decide to PUG, you can do that too. Just wait and take the non-caster levels after you have wall of fire...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    I haven't tried a WF Wizard multi-class yet. I can think of a lot of level 6 to 10 content that is just very inhospitable to solo wizards generally at the appropriate levels. House Kundarak has several instances in which moderate melee is not enough to get the job done offensively and the mobs hit hard enough to drain the mana pool very quickly and you don't have Firewall yet. Delera's Graveyard is very inhospitable until you get Firewall and so is the Necropolis. I'm not sure that Ataraxia's Haven is doable either, although it might be - the Duergar come in small groups not waves and they hit hard enough from range with all the archery and casting that even with Firewall I'm not sure it's completely manageable. The wildlife there hits very hard also and has high reflex saves to halve the damage from Firewall.
    I'm sorry, but none of this rings true. I've just recently outlevelled most of this content you mention but never once had trouble at any level. Yes, pre-firewall things take a bit more planning, but meleeing is viable prior to lvl7 (and hireling makes it very easy at level appropriate quests in fact).

    House K: there are no instances below level 10 that aren't soloable as a wizard here. Which one require "more than moderate melee?"

    Delera's inhospitable? Grab a holy maul and go to town - the delera chain, provided you're not running the later parts also at level, is relatively easy (since you should have firewall by the time you hit Thrall of the Necro). And prior to FW, well you have access to halt undead...so I fail to see the problem really.

    Ataraxia: well for one thing, it's level 10 content, so you'll definitely have FW there. But worrying about the archers when Stoneskin is available is ridiculous. Better yet, get a Spearblock Docent and ignore them completely. You're also forgetting charming/holding options. Dual heavy picks usually make short work of a held monster.

    Last, I'm pretty sure high reflex saves won't matter to FW, as it has no saveable component as far as the description goes (I always assumed it was correct and partly explained away the otherwise clearly superior Blade Barrier).

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