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Thread: Was i Wrong?

  1. #21
    Community Member twix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    I guess I'll have to be the dissenter here.

    I don't think that TR should ever be a factor in the rolls. Maybe the fighter is a more casual player and will never TR. Does he deserve the shield more because he's going to use it right away while your TR FvS might be 4 months away from being able to use it? IMHO yes.

    I knew that TRs keeping their equipment was going to cause this and it's why I believe that either all equipment should be wiped out with the TR OR people should be more thoughtful of other characters and not worry about your plans for TRing. If you're going to TR you're going to have a ton more opportunities to get that shield, or whatever loot it is, again.
    I wouldnt have waited until i tred to use it .I would have it equiped right now. My cleric loves agro just as much as my fvs will. Did i mention that the tank was tred already? Deff not casual.
    Last edited by twix; 05-05-2010 at 11:59 AM.

  2. #22
    Community Member cdemeritt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    So is a Sword of Shadows, but I used the ritual on it to prevent it from taking permanent damage. You can do it with a bound item...I was wondering if there was a reason it didn't work with Icy Rainments. It would have cost a few khyber shards and someone would have had the item. It smart to do it to bound to character items to prevent damage since you aren't trading them anyway.
    My point is, any bound item (unless the newer stuff has changed) DOES NOT take permanent damage, even without the ritual... Now if you are talking the adamantine ritual to add hardness and durability (so it doesn't break as often) well, ok... If this was not true, my sorc would have broken all his raid loot by now....
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  3. #23
    Community Member EKKM's Avatar
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    I personally would not roll on that item in your situation. On the other side, since you explained your reason I would still be POed but not squelch and blacklist him, his guild and his dog POed.

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  4. #24
    Community Member TheJusticar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArloOne View Post
    I saw a cleric, wearing icy rainments..pull them in the sub skelly chest. I asked if they were up for roll. He said no, he wanted a 2nd set in case the ones he is wearing gets destroyed. I was P/O for a minute then thought to myself, well, they are his to do with what he wants, but man o man, aggravating.
    Sigh. I was in two different runs on my pally/monk (that can actually use it). It dropped for one of the casters, he loots it. Sure, it's his loot and he's a newbie so whatever. We drop group and reform, two drop: one for the cleric, one for a full plate fighter. The cleric puts it up for roll. The fighter loots it. I asked in party chat if he had any use for it. He said no, but his other character does. *shrugs*

  5. #25
    Community Member twix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKKM View Post
    I personally would not roll on that item in your situation. On the other side, since you explained your reason I would still be POed but not squelch and blacklist him, his guild and his dog POed.
    Im not ****ed off enough to blacklist or anything either.In fact im not ****ed off at all now.just wanted opinions on if i was wrong.So thanks for yours

  6. #26
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twix View Post
    The point of intimidate is to pull agro correct? What do you think threat generation does? You guessed it!! draws agro to you.Hence why threat would be usefull for me.not to mention dr and ac .
    Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding of threat generation means it adds to the damage you do...

    For instance, if I do 100 points of damage to a critter, 20% bonus threat generation, means the critter thinks I did 120 points of damage to him and determines aggro accordingly...

    i.e. If I do 100 points, and you do 110, I still get aggro because the critter acts like I did 120...

    As far as I know, threat generation has nothing to do with intimidate... Intimidate works or it doesn't... Threat generation on that shield will do nothing to help your intimidate...

    The DR (something I forgot) is a decent reason for you to want it as a turtling intim-FvS... But I'd still give it up to fighter first... But that's just me.

    Again, if you pulled it yourself... I'd have no problem with you taking it... But I know if I owned the item in the chest, there's no way I'd let a cleric roll on it for a future FvS TR over a fighter type...
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  7. #27
    Community Member twix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding of threat generation means it adds to the damage you do...

    For instance, if I do 100 points of damage to a critter, 20% bonus threat generation, means the critter thinks I did 120 points of damage to him and determines aggro accordingly...

    i.e. If I do 100 points, and you do 110, I still get aggro because the critter acts like I did 120...

    As far as I know, threat generation has nothing to do with intimidate... Intimidate works or it doesn't... Threat generation on that shield will do nothing to help your intimidate...

    The DR (something I forgot) is a decent reason for you to want it as a turtling intim-FvS... But I'd still give it up to fighter first... But that's just me.

    Again, if you pulled it yourself... I'd have no problem with you taking it... But I know if I owned the item in the chest, there's no way I'd let a cleric roll on it for a future FvS TR over a fighter type...

    Again,
    No **** it wont help my intimidate it will help me draw more agro.which is the point.

  8. #28
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twix View Post
    No **** it wont help my intimidate it will help me draw more agro.which is the point.
    How is it going to help you draw more aggro?

    Are you turtling up behind that shield for the DR? In that case, you're doing zero damage, threat generation does NOTHING for you...

    Are you attacking as a cleric/FvS? As Sword and Board? Using a tower shield that you're not proficient in? You think that 20% is going to let you out-damage the THF or TWF melee and grab aggro?

    The threat generation part is completely worthless to you... The shield is good for DR and that's about it...But the cleric shield has the same amount of DR doesn't it?

    So basically yeah, you did wrong... That shield is not very useful for you.
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    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  9. #29
    Community Member TheJusticar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfCheese View Post
    It's absolutely fair game to roll on it if there are no conditions put on the roll.

    That being said, I tend not to roll against people where it is a key item for them. I use my 20th completion to get non-essential items and avoid the political mess.

    That being said, it's pretty easy to defend a roll on it. I've got casters, for example, who only run certain raids now to get "off stat" +3/+4 tomes. If a +3 str tome drops and the option is up to roll on it for my caster, I'll seriously considering rolling, since it might be the only reason I'm even on the run. But, if a melee NEEDS it and has a compelling story (haven't gotten it in 100 runs), I'll step aside.

    It's all situation dependent for me--but I wouldn't fault anyone on rolling on an open roll if there is any legitimate reason why they want the item (I have Madstone boots on my WF sorc ).
    I think the most contentious would be a +4 CON tome. Anyone, and I mean anyone has good use for a +4 CON tome. So, you know, there will be 1 happy person and 11 hating him/her.

  10. #30
    Community Member Maggiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twix View Post
    Ok so i join a pug hound on my cleric.everything goes well we complete.The defender sheild dropped and was up for roll. As i already wear the bracers and plan on tring as a fvs who uses intidimidate the extra threat would help me as well as the dr.So i roll on it.

    Now i won the roll with a 99 (great roll right ) But then the tank who rolled a 97 starting typing how ****ed up i was for rolling. And the person who put it up for roll was hesitant to give it to me because the tank and his guidies ,who were running the raid, were telling me and the party that i wont use it.

    It was put in my name finally but at this point,after having to explain why i want it, i was so ****ed off i put it under said tanks name and told them its in there for him and i recalled.

    Now is it wrong for me to want this loot even though im going to use it? Was i wrong for rolling ? Never experienced this in 3 and a half years of ddo so would like your opinion.

    Ive always been under the impression that its fair to roll on loot if it will actually benefit your character and you plan on using it.
    was i in that run? if not the same thing happened in a run i was in today (i remember the cleric rolled a 99)
    Last edited by Maggiman; 05-05-2010 at 12:44 PM.


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  11. #31
    Community Member toughguyjoe's Avatar
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    Tip #2,165: Stone is ALWAYS wrong.

    Anyway. I don't have a problem with a Cleric rollingon the Shield, as long as they had the eloquence to explain thier use for it(which you did)

    Hound is an easy peasy run, so either one of you shouldn't be mad to lose the roll, you can simply keep doing the quest and get it eventually. hound takes longer to get to than to run.

    As far as the 20% threat....I'm not sure how it works. The description is vague. Unfortunately, the best thing i can compare it to is the Maul of Malice which has Incite +20% on it. That weapon specifically states Melee damage. While Leviks defender does not. Perhaps the 20% threat applies to your character itself, including all damage dealt by it. In such a case clerical spells will draw more agro. However knowing Turbine they simply copy and pasted the 20% from the Maul, which makes it moot.

    Is there a thread on this subject?
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  12. #32
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdemeritt View Post
    My point is, any bound item (unless the newer stuff has changed) DOES NOT take permanent damage, even without the ritual... Now if you are talking the adamantine ritual to add hardness and durability (so it doesn't break as often) well, ok... If this was not true, my sorc would have broken all his raid loot by now....
    Now, we are arguing semantics. My original point was on Arlo's post about a guy taking a second on in case the first broke. If it can't break or can be bound not to break, did no one explain this? It seems such a waste to take two of an item in case one breaks when it can be easily prevented or is automatically. But as far as I knew, and this was recent...items still need to be attuned to prevent perm damage.
    Last edited by Eladiun; 05-05-2010 at 01:20 PM.
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  13. #33
    Community Member bandyman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    How is it going to help you draw more aggro?

    Are you turtling up behind that shield for the DR? In that case, you're doing zero damage, threat generation does NOTHING for you...

    Are you attacking as a cleric/FvS? As Sword and Board? Using a tower shield that you're not proficient in? You think that 20% is going to let you out-damage the THF or TWF melee and grab aggro?

    The threat generation part is completely worthless to you... The shield is good for DR and that's about it...But the cleric shield has the same amount of DR doesn't it?

    So basically yeah, you did wrong... That shield is not very useful for you.
    Except for that whole part about that shield not specifying melee damage.

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  14. #34
    Community Member bandyman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    But as far as I knew, and this was recent...items still need to be attuned to prevent perm damage.
    Nope.

    And I've been out of the game for months.

    Any item bound ( weather through ritual, or simply being bound to character by nature ) takes no perm damage.
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  15. #35
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandyman1 View Post
    Nope.

    And I've been out of the game for months.

    Any item bound ( weather through ritual, or simply being bound to character by nature ) takes no perm damage.

    When I was looking for confirmation on this and found posts from just last fall saying the opposite but never the mind I'll trust ya. That makes what the guy in the referenced post did worse taking a second one.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandyman1 View Post
    Except for that whole part about that shield not specifying melee damage.

    BB FTW.
    You really want to run with a FvS intimitank who holds aggro on a boss monster by running it through Blade Barriers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  17. #37
    Community Member cdemeritt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    Now, we are arguing semantics. My original point was on Arlo's post about a guy taking a second on in case the first broke. If it can't break or can be bound not to break, did no one explain this? It seems such a waste to take two of an item in case one breaks when it can be easily prevented or is automatically.
    No, not semantics... An Item that is bound does take damage... There is no ritual or way to prevent this...

    You take your GS Ax or sword (bound) and beat a ooze with it, you will break it... This is true if you take your Masterwork sword or ax and bind it with the ritual... Nothing will stop an item from taking damage. However, when you repair the item, there is a *chance* of the item taking permanent damage... Binding the item removes the *chance* and your item cannot be permanently damaged...

    Last time I checked (admittedly, some time ago), Icy Rainments where bound to character on aquire... meaning you could put them on, jump into the nearest lava pit, die 1,000,000 times, and they will break several times, down to 0 durability, and you can repair them many, many times... and they will never take permanent damage... Ritual or not

    Your original question was why couldn't he put the binding ritual on them.... There is no reason he couldn't, but unless he's adding the some other ritual, there is no point... The item will never be destroyed by damage...


    Now for the guy who looted a 2nd set of Icy's... this guy was either someone who didn't understand that bound items don't take permanent damage, or someone who runs a lot of quests (epic) where items take a lot of non-permanent damage, but can be broken beyond use in a single quest... and wanted a backup for when his first set falls off him... I've heard of many melees that actually have 2 Levik shields from the hound for this reason....
    Last edited by cdemeritt; 05-05-2010 at 01:43 PM.
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  18. #38
    Community Member cdemeritt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    When I was looking for confirmation on this and found posts from just last fall saying the opposite but never the mind I'll trust ya. That makes what the guy in the referenced post did worse taking a second one.
    here... I know it's not "official" as it is only wiki, but It should help.....

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Bind_on_acquire
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  19. #39
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdemeritt View Post
    No, not semantics... An Item that is bound does take damage... There is no ritual or way to prevent this...
    I should have been more specific...permenant damage. I.E. never destroyed rendering the need for an extra set useless. Unless you die frequently enough to switch mid quest.


    Quote Originally Posted by cdemeritt View Post
    Now for the guy who looted a 2nd set of Icy's... this guy was either someone who didn't understand that bound items don't take permanent damage, or someone who runs a lot of quests (epic) where items take a lot of non-permanent damage, but can be broken beyond use in a single quest... and wanted a backup for when his first set falls off him... I've heard of many melees that actually have 2 Levik shields from the hound for this reason....
    I guess but I hope my Cleric isn't taking that kind of beating even on epic. In this scenario, throw a few Addy Rituals on it...
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  20. #40
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdemeritt View Post
    here... I know it's not "official" as it is only wiki, but It should help.....

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Bind_on_acquire
    I'll have to trust the wiki or test it as I poured through the patch notes back to The Thirteenth Exclipes and couldn't find it. I did find other interesting things though. I am upset at wasting fragments...not very but a little.
    “If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed.”

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