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  1. #21
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    Hopefully this gives you an idea or two, or at least confirms some of your own ideas. Maybe its just a guide of what not to do

    Its not totally current, and I will be changing some things, but its fairly close to what I have now. Im hoping to make some changes in the next week or two. I have been busy leveling a dps paly so havent had time to keep up with that thread.
    Thats a really nice set up quick. If you like him you might enjoy a pally version. Granted you will be hate tanking bosses vs intiming them. Though trash youll be fine with intiming. As always aps are tight but I know I love mine. They seem to both play the same way. I love having loh's and unyeilding sov on top of scrolls. Dwarf or human they both come out awesome.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  2. #22
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Thats a really nice set up quick. If you like him you might enjoy a pally version. Granted you will be hate tanking bosses vs intiming them. Though trash youll be fine with intiming. As always aps are tight but I know I love mine. They seem to both play the same way. I love having loh's and unyeilding sov on top of scrolls. Dwarf or human they both come out awesome.
    yeah I hate tank as much as possible with my fighter. Though there are a few bosses its intim or nothing.

    My first tank build was a paly so I'm real familiar with them, even though I'm not as active on the paly boards. I just got a tr'd paly to 17. That's a dps build. Next is hopefully my cleric, which will be quite a long process. Possibly after that another tanking paly, but with a little twist.

    My fighter definately doesn't have the self healing avail that a paly does, but has a higher ac then most paly's and higher intim. Give and take

    Thanks for the plug though
    Sarlona's #1 Piker!!
    QuiknDirty~Quikster~Quikfire~Quikkilla~Quikinator~ Missquik~Quiktunes~Fatalbert~Bignugly~Quikmeister~ Member of Quantum Entropy!!

  3. #23
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikster View Post
    yeah I Hate Tank As Much As Possible With My Fighter. Though There Are A Few Bosses Its Intim Or Nothing.

    My First Tank Build Was A Paly So I'm Real Familiar With Them, Even Though I'm Not As Active On The Paly Boards. I Just Got A Tr'd Paly To 17. That's A Dps Build. Next Is Hopefully My Cleric, Which Will Be Quite A Long Process. Possibly After That Another Tanking Paly, But With A Little Twist.

    My Fighter Definately Doesn't Have The Self Healing Avail That A Paly Does, But Has A Higher Ac Then Most Paly's And Higher Intim. Give And Take :d

    Thanks For The Plug Though
    Lol
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  4. #24
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    Paladins make inferior intimitanks to fighters, but have an easier time hate tanking.

    You should make sure whichever route you go you have a dps option. Do not make something that just turtles up. You will be a liability in 98% of the content in DDO.
    Paladins are NOT inferior intimitanks. I have my own Paladin tank and he has 34 CHA and a max of 85 intimi.

    To say that one class is inferior to another is just plain INSANITY.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    Paladins are NOT inferior intimitanks. I have my own Paladin tank and he has 34 CHA and a max of 85 intimi.

    To say that one class is inferior to another is just plain INSANITY.
    Are you sure about that? Things were quite a bit different 3 years ago.

  6. #26
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Are you sure about that? Things were quite a bit different 3 years ago.
    I know that paladins were (once) less of a tank option than fighter, but today as of U19, that gap no longer exists.

  7. #27
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    Paladins are NOT inferior intimitanks. I have my own Paladin tank and he has 34 CHA and a max of 85 intimi.

    To say that one class is inferior to another is just plain INSANITY.
    Tanks are inferior builds. They are pointless. Seriously not needed for ANYTHING in the current DDO.

    Paladins are the worst class in the game above a 4 level splash.

    This is like arguing over what kind of black-smithing tools work best.

  8. #28
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Tanks are inferior builds. They are pointless. Seriously not needed for ANYTHING in the current DDO.

    Paladins are the worst class in the game above a 4 level splash.

    This is like arguing over what kind of black-smithing tools work best.
    First, your speaking of them being pointless is an understatement because without tank builds, EE raid bosses would be nearly impossible to fight because most would be dealing like 200-500 damage a hit. Tank builds aren't needed much in EH quests because that difficulty is a pushover.

    Second, have you even played a paladin character before or did you just look at them and decided that they are horrible?

    I am not trying to start a flamewar, but your pushing me over the edge.

  9. #29
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    First, your speaking of them being pointless is an understatement because without tank builds, EE raid bosses would be nearly impossible to fight because most would be dealing like 200-500 damage a hit. Tank builds aren't needed much in EH quests because that difficulty is a pushover.
    Besides EE LOB which EE Raid needs a "tank" at all?

    We've done EVERYTHING in the game on EE without a tank and it's gone just as smoothly as when we had one.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    Second, have you even played a paladin character before or did you just look at them and decided that they are horrible?
    5 Pally lives on various toons including spending time at cap as a DOS tank one life and a "DPS" build on another. "DPS" has to be in " " as they do slightly more damage than not hitting the target. I'm well aware of how terrible they are.

    My DOS days were back when there actually was a raiding game in DDO. Now? it's done.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    Third, you have insulted me by saying that Paladins are the worst class in the game.
    Why? There's no reason to fanboi a class. Be objective, paladins are weak and pretty terrible right now. They need dev-love, the enhancement pass was a chance to make them less terrible but Turbine dropped the ball. I guess they ran out of buffs after they got done with monks.

    Ranger is one of my favorite classes, for a long time they were terrible. I still liked playing them though I knew I had stronger toons in my stable. Things change, EDs happen, classes get buffed, etc . . . who knows maybe in 2014 paladins will no longer be terrible but as of now they are the worst class in the game above a 4 level splash.

    You need to get your head out of the sand. Play some other classes and you will see how bad they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    I am not trying to start a flamewar, but your pushing me over the edge.
    Embrace your hatred, let the dark-side flow through you.

    And bring it.

  10. #30
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    I do play other character classes, I have:

    1 Human Paladin (First and main DDO character, feel the justice!)
    1 Human Wizard (Necromancer themed, slaughter them all MUHAHAHA!)
    1 Human Artificer (I can make things blow up or shot you while doggy bits your limbs off)
    1 Elf Favored Soul (I bring forth the wrath of the divines you unholy abominations!)
    1 Half~Elf Druid (HOW DARE YOU MURDER THAT FLOWER!)
    1 Drow Rogue (Die now, pathetic mortal)

    Working in Progress:

    1 Half~Orc Barbarian (SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!)
    1 Sun Elf Cleric (We Morninglords will destroy the darkness!)
    1 Half~Elf Monk (Peace and inner balance between body, mind and soul)

    My paladin character is my first DDO character and I have never TR'ed him for like five years, but I have LR'ed him like a million times and transforming him into one of the best self-healing survivalist tanks. One that does not depend on the healing power of major divine casters.

    Maybe Paladins wouldn't be so terrible to you if Turbine started to move DDO from the 3.5 D&D base to 4.5 D&D and gave them a major upgrade.
    Last edited by bennyson; 10-30-2013 at 01:16 PM.

  11. #31
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    I do play other character classes, I have:

    1 Human Paladin (First and main DDO character, feel the justice!)
    1 Human Wizard (Necromancer themed, slaughter them all MUHAHAHA!)
    1 Human Artificer (I can make things blow up or shot you while doggy bits your limbs off)
    1 Elf Favored Soul (I bring forth the wrath of the divines you unholy abominations!)
    1 Half~Elf Druid (HOW DARE YOU MURDER THAT FLOWER!)
    1 Drow Rogue (Die now, pathetic mortal)

    Working in Progress:

    1 Half~Orc Barbarian (SMASH, SMASH, SMASH!)
    1 Sun Elf Cleric (We Morninglords will destroy the darkness!)
    1 Half~Elf Monk (Peace and inner balance between body, mind and soul)

    My paladin character is my first DDO character and I have never TR'ed him for like five years, but I have LR'ed him like a million times and transforming him into one of the best self-healing survivalist tanks. One that does not depend on the healing power of major divine casters.

    Maybe Paladins wouldn't be so terrible to you if Turbine started to move DDO from the 3.5 D&D base to 4.5 D&D and gave them a major upgrade.
    I doubt it has better self healing than a fvs or cleric or druid, or wf artificer. and before you say, yeah but his saves, well you could have those saves if you took 2 levels of pally and 18 of anything else, heck you could even have picked up evasion.

  12. #32
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    I do play other character classes, I have:

    1 Human Paladin (First and main DDO character, feel the justice!)
    1 Human Wizard (Necromancer themed, slaughter them all MUHAHAHA!)
    1 Human Artificer (I can make things blow up or shot you while doggy bits your limbs off)
    1 Elf Favored Soul (I bring forth the wrath of the divines you unholy abominations!)
    1 Half~Elf Druid (HOW DARE YOU MURDER THAT FLOWER!)
    1 Drow Rogue (Die now, pathetic mortal)
    I don't see a "real" DPS build in that stable except for potentially the roque.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    My paladin character is my first DDO character and I have never TR'ed him for like five years, but I have LR'ed him like a million times and transforming him into one of the best self-healing survivalist tanks. One that does not depend on the healing power of major divine casters.
    You love your pally, nothing wrong with that. My guildie loved his pally too, was his favorite toon untill recent changes gimped him. LR+20 heart for the win.

    Serious question, and I say this with a heavy-heart I as LR'd my tank into something else when the ENH pass hit us, what good is that? In what content is that a great idea?

    Pallies have great self healing . . . then what? Rangers have almost as good and MUCH better DPS. "Fighters" can take cacoon . . . between that, no-fail heal scrolls (without a bard, arti, or rogue level) and Silverflame pots my fighter doesn't need a healer either and does tons more damage. Rogues in the same boat as fighter only with easier to get UMD. let's not forget whatever FoTM splash build is floating around out there.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the game was better when tanks were needed. The game was better when raiding was important. But having done an EE FoT recently where a monk was tanking the TO and a Tempest ranger on the Stormreaver . . . it just became clear that they aren't needed for anything. I don't like this, it is just the current reality.

    Except EE LOB . . . and there is no reason to run EE LOB so nobody does.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    Maybe Paladins wouldn't be so terrible to you if Turbine started to move DDO from the 3.5 D&D base to 4.5 D&D and gave them a major upgrade.
    Translation . . .maybe paladins wouldn't suck if Turbine would make them not suck?

    In other news the sun rises int he east and water is wet.

    They need love. The power and gimpiness for all toons is in the enhancements.

  13. #33
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    I doubt it has better self healing than a fvs or cleric or druid, or wf artificer. and before you say, yeah but his saves, well you could have those saves if you took 2 levels of pally and 18 of anything else, heck you could even have picked up evasion.
    That's another thing . . . I'm pretty sure a splashed battle-cleric could meet or exceed pally DPS with more survivability.

  14. #34
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    I've been reading around other parts of the forums, I think that were thinking inside the box on this and not outside of it, and this is my new view on tank builds post-U19.

    Pure tank builds are now a bad idea, I cant believe I was so stupid as to think the way I did. I think I may have to LR my loved paladin again into a DPS/Tank build or maybe not a LR but just a reset to perks as such or maybe instead grind for more fate points and twists and reset my sentinel destiny to dps/tank. This, however, will not change my mind about how nerfed/boosted paladins are, it all comes down to HOW creative you are with your builds and how much you can squish out every last bit of possibilities.

  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    This, however, will not change my mind about how nerfed/boosted paladins are, it all comes down to HOW creative you are with your builds and how much you can squish out every last bit of possibilities.
    Enlighten me. Share your creativity. Tell me how this pally can be better than any other choice?

    I knew a guy with an 8 pally/6 ranger/6 monk "tank" build that can tank if it has to be can still be decent in a DPS role with an ENH reset and changing up EDs. That's probably the best platform. If the game changes again and tanks are required I will LR/TR one of my toons to that build.

    The guys still using shields . . . meh . . .

    And this is dumb. The guys with shields and armor should be the best tanks by far. The current game mechanics just don't work that way.

  16. #36
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The guys still using shields . . . meh . . .
    ... are druids or casters. Turbine recognizes this, and are adding (not very useful) shield enhancing lines to the EK.

    Oh wait, were we talking melee?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  17. #37
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The whole point here is that sure, you can build the awesome tank, but after doing so what are you going to tank?

    The current iteration of DDO has moved away from needing a tank due to not being as raid oriented. Back in the days of TOD > Chrono > LOB being end game, a tank was desired in all three of those. Before that there was the era with Shroud > VOD > Hound, with a bit of reavers pike thrown in where tank was desired for most of that. Nowdays, the monk tanks the reaver in FOT, and Llolth just requires a good belly button pounding with no tank required.

    Its not really about paladin tanks being good or bad tanks, its that theres nothign to tank in the game in the first place. Hopefully they change this and tanks are desired again at some point.

    Oh, and congrats on the 3 year necro.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #38
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    I will say this and only once.


    My tank build is focused on
    high threat per attack
    high intim
    high saves
    high hp
    high prr
    high ac
    high positive spell power
    regeneration of turns and lay on hands
    mass group heal with Light the Dark
    high sp
    replace enchant wiz and tank trash mobs
    self-heal without clerical aid (as in the cleric wont heal you, your on your own)
    high absorption of elements
    high heal amp
    raise fallen allies
    destroy or stun undead with ease

    the list goes on...

  19. #39
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyson View Post
    I will say this and only once.


    My tank build is focused on
    high threat per attack
    high intim
    high saves
    high hp
    high prr
    high ac
    high positive spell power
    regeneration of turns and lay on hands
    mass group heal with Light the Dark
    high sp
    replace enchant wiz and tank trash mobs
    self-heal without clerical aid (as in the cleric wont heal you, your on your own)
    high absorption of elements
    high heal amp
    raise fallen allies
    destroy or stun undead with ease

    the list goes on...
    And in what quests that people actually run is that in any way more useful than a good DPS build?

  20. #40
    Community Member bennyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    And in what quests that people actually run is that in any way more useful than a good DPS build?
    Didn't I say that I was going to change my character in having a dps role? I what gave you is an idea of his current build and I said that I was going to change it to be DPS/Tank. As of the issue of quests, I can't research that because everybody is doing that lagy Mabar event!

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