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    Default Genghis Khan - Warchanter Bard 16/Fighter 2/Barbarian 2

    Warchanters use a combination of magical music, rousing oratory, and bold action to inspire others to action. Warchanters fight on their own and use the very sounds of battle as a part of their symposium. With these, warchanters cannot only help others fight through pain but themselves as well, fighting even as the chaos of battle engulfs them.

    Like Warlords of Forgotten Realms fame, warchanters are more akin to battlefield commanders who are part of the martial tradition rather than healers, with much of their training revolving around the command of others. With the proper training, war chanters are capable of pushing themselves to limits few others are capable of, accomplishing more in an instant than some can over a space of minutes.


    This is a build that stands strong with little to no gear, right-out-of-the-box. It is new player friendly. It is veteran friendly. Its multi-class friendly. Its class flexibility heightens it effectiveness in the battlefield, as opposed to the all-too-common occurrence in the bard community of spreading themselves too thin.

    HUMAN BUILD:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Genghis Khan
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 344
    Spell Points: 470 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          
    Abilities        Base Stats         
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          
    Strength             18             
    Dexterity             8             
    Constitution         17             
    Intelligence          8             
    Wisdom                8             
    Charisma             11             
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting            Ending          
                     Base Skills        Base Skills       
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
    Balance               3                 21            
    Bluff                 0                  1            
    Concentration         7                 27            
    Diplomacy             0                  1            
    Disable Device       n/a                n/a           
    Haggle                0                  1            
    Heal                 -1                 -1            
    Hide                 -1                 11            
    Intimidate            0                  1            
    Jump                  8                 16            
    Listen               -1                 -1            
    Move Silently        -1                 -1            
    Open Lock            n/a               n/a            
    Perform               4                 24            
    Repair               -1                  0            
    Search               -1                  0            
    Spot                  0.5                3            
    Swim                  4                  8            
    Tumble                0                  1            
    Use Magic Device      4                 24            
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+1.5)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
    Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Bard Perform I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
    Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
    Feat: (Automatic) Rage
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Perform (+5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Spell (1): Focusing Chant
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
    Spell (1): Remove Fear
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Soundburst (when you done fiddling with this spell, take invisibility, to enhance your stealth while fascinating)
    Spell (2): Rage
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance
    Spell (2): Blur
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Trap Sense I
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (2): Heroism (replace with Glitterdust as soon as you pick up Good Hope)
    Spell (3): Haste
    Spell (3): Displacement
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
    Spell (3): Good Hope
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Hide (+5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
    Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
    Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (5): Greater Heroism
    Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (4): Dimension Door
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow. (Option to switch to Maximize Spell if Torc is acquired.)
    Spell (5): Shadow Walk
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Hide (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors
    Spell (5): Summon Monster V
    Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
    Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III


    STATS:


    36 STR
    18 + 2 tome + 1 litany + 1 human + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 5 levels (38 raged)
    16 DEX
    8 + 6 item + 1 tome + 1 litany
    28 CON
    17 + 2 tome + 1 litany + 1 human + 1 exceptional + 6 item (+2 insight) (32 raged, 34 with yugo)
    10 INT
    8 + 1 tome + 1 litany
    16 WIS
    8 base + 1 tome + 1 litany + 6 item
    22
    CHA 11 + 2 tome + 2 enhancement + 1 litany + 6 item

    (What's significant with this math (to me) is that there are no +3 tomes needed for high end even math. That means new players can shoot for +1/ +2 tomes, Vets can shoot for +3/+4 tomes. Nice smooth even math at end game for any player.)

    HIT POINTS:


    With 10 Agents favor, toughness x2, 30 greater false life, 18 minos, 45 GS shroud item, 40 yugo pot you should be in the mid/high 500's self buffed. Fully buffed should be well over
    600 hp.

    USE MAGIC DEVICE: (more than enough to no-fail anything you want)

    24 base

    5 shroud
    7 charisma
    4 GH
    -----------------------------

    40 UMD
    41 with focusing chant

    46 with human versatility IV

    * Tomes are not needed for this build. The great thing about 2 handed weapon fighting is that hitting will be achievable right at game start. Tomes that are listed are only +1 or +2 tomes. +3 and +4 tomes are much harder to come by, and therefore are not included. A +2 tome set from the DDO store can be purchased and would negate any farming for tomes whatsoever. Melee levels are taken early to bolster out-of-box DPS concept of this build.

    * Don't let any gear I list scare ya. For example, even if you could only muster a 32 STR, thats enough to do some very good damage on a build like this.

    * The very 1st weapon you want to acquire is a Carnifex. It's the best weapon in the game up to level 8, and will probably carry you until level 10, when you will be able to find better DPS solutions. Greataxes/Falcions/(Mauls on skellies) are hot.

    Quarterstaffs are slightly less on DPS but can still be used effectively. They certainly make a great disruptor, especially of you find a holy or flaming QS of disruption. Look for acid guard light armor early. The extra damage to the baddies when YOU get hit will be very helpful...

    ________________________
    HALF ORC BUILD:


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.0 BETA
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Half Orc Genghis Khan
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 312
    Spell Points: 475 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 10
    Will: 10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             20                    30
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         16                    19
    Intelligence          6                     8
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
    Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Orc Orc Blood
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
    Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
    Feat: (Automatic) Rage
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Orc Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Orc Extra Action Boost II
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Orc Extra Action Boost III
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury III
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
    Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
    ________________________
    NEW PLAYER SECTION:

    28 PT Build:


    STR 18
    DEX 8
    CON 16
    INT
    8
    WIS 8
    CHA 10

    ________________________

    Starter gear/early game layout: (much of the features/effects on this gear you can move around as you find better gear)

    Weapon: Carnifex, Holy/Pure Good maul or quarterstaff for skellies.
    Armor: Light armor (bards take no spell failure when wearing light armor.) Mithral Breastplate preferred. Light armor with guards are nice.
    Eye: Goggles of Insight
    Necklace: Con item (get Golden Cartouch from Delera's asap!)
    Trinket: Crimson Gemstone, Duskheart
    Cloak: Fururs Hide (lesser axeblock), Mantle of the Worldshaper

    Belt: Moderate fortification
    Rings: false life, proof against poison, disease immunity
    Gloves: Strength item
    Bracers: Dex item

    Helm: CHA item
    ________________________

    * For a greensteel weapon, I'd go for a Mineral 2 Greataxe or Falcion. The Falcion is killer for high DR mobs, literally.

    * Make a 45 HP, 6 wis, concordant opposition greensteel item ... and your build should be smokin

    End Game Gear layout (To be discussed & updated. The game's best gear. These are the items to strive for.)

    Weapons: Greensteel Mineral 2 Greataxe/Falchion. Triple Positive Maul.
    Armor: Dragontouched Robe +5 Resistance, +6 charisma, and destruction (or radiance).
    Necklace: Torc of Prince Rayium, Shintao Neck (+15 concentration +6 con
    )
    Trinket: Bloodstone
    Bracers: Bracer of the Glacier (Spell penetration VIII, Archmagi, Fire shield Cold), Tharne's Bracers

    Goggles: Tharne's Goggles
    Gloves: Titan's Grip, Gloves of the Glacier, Bramble-Casters
    Rings: Frenzied Berserker ring (+6 str, +1 exceptional str, +2 exceptional str), Shintao ring (+6 wis, + 1 exceptional str, +2 exceptional con)

    "Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words." - Robert G. Ingersoll, General during the US Civil War 1861-1865
    Last edited by Tolero; 03-10-2011 at 07:08 AM.


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  2. #2
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    1) The Feat extend - what spells does it work on?

    I've tried it on Inspire courage and it doesn't affect it.

    So I don't understand why so many builds get it so early...

    2) Also is your Charisma high enough to land Otto's Irresistable Dance, Fascinate and Sound Burst?

    Thanks for your help.

    I am building a 16/2/2 and so far he is very close to this build.

    Thanks for posting.

  3. #3
    Community Member Tuney's Avatar
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    Extend generaly effects spells that have a durration greater then instant and less than pernment (MEH spelling!) Won't effect bardic songs

    Otto's Irriesistable dance's only weakness is Spell resistance which is a caster level thing , for a bard the base min cha needed is 16 which is to cast the darn spell. Fasnation as long as one uses a bard cloak at end game there will be almost no problems landing it.

    Sound Burst now that one is a spell where if you dump your DC casting stat don't take it as it is worthless for the main reason one would use it. But Early game mobs and PC saves suck enough where you have about a 50/50 chance of it landing. And probbly up til 11/12 provide some use befor being replaced or forgotten.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rudedawg14 View Post
    1) The Feat extend - what spells does it work on?
    Extend works on spells such as haste, ottos, & hold monster. It sadly will not prolong your songs. However, there's an enhancement called Lingering Song that does just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rudedawg14 View Post
    2) Also is your Charisma high enough to land Otto's Irresistable Dance, Fascinate and Sound Burst?
    Yes. Naturally, your spells will not stick as well as spell singers. CC on a warchanter is more about fascinate. Luckily, its your Perform skill that dictates how well your fascinate sticks


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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuney View Post
    Sound Burst now that one is a spell where if you dump your DC casting stat don't take it as it is worthless for the main reason one would use it. But Early game mobs and PC saves suck enough where you have about a 50/50 chance of it landing. And probbly up til 11/12 provide some use befor being replaced or forgotten.
    Yes, there are plenty of mobs dumb enough to fall for this spell early on. Its just as you say, up to level 10ish. Soundburst is going to be replaced very soon. Oyyyee, the choices are thin tho...


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  6. #6

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    The magic in this build so far is the speed and power. Barbarian fast movement + Barbarian Sprint Boost + Expeditious Retreat + Rage + Barbarian Rage + Fighter Haste Boost make you VERY fast and VERY strong, VERY early in your build life.

    RAGE: Rages are used differently in this build than they are used in a frenzied barbarian. Rages are used for boss fights and other really tough battles only. The fact that the rages are short duration is advantageous for strategic purposes. Shorter rages give you the power when you need it, but gets you back to normal so you can heal and do your other bard chores faster.

    Rages can be dismissed and exhaustion can be removed with a lesser resto wand if truly needed, but if timed right, wont be necessary very often. Expeditious retreat can be clicked to counter the exhaustion as well. Going Warforged eliminates exhaustion all together but then you are... warforged. I prefer the ease of healing and extra customization humans offer however, especially with bards. WF would grant you other DPS options tho with extra power attack (more damage but also a much higher to-hit penalty).

    I'm up to level 10 already and this build is a blast to play!

    Looking forward to debate, which I know will come, in the areas of DPS and healing and CC. Criticism is fine. As long as its respectful and will help the bard community at large. This build makes no claims of "top DPS." However, his DPS is massive. Its simply built around fun factor for me, which is imperative to me.

    Genghis Khan's true goals: Easy & Inexpensive to Build. Massive speed. Massive DPS. Team Player. Team Leader. To be able to rally a party with MAX damage songs.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 04-11-2010 at 03:39 PM.


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  7. #7
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    Hm, you're saying new player friendly, but start with 32 points, then add several +2 tomes as well as green steêl and raid items. Now, can it stand by itself as you said it would or does it require 32 points, tomes and items?

    There are several threads about similar warchanter combos, but usually going rogue instead of barbarian, and TWF instead of THF. Not that I want to convince you of such a build, just pointing out threads with similar ideas are there, have been thoroughly discussed, and came to some quite different conclusions.

    I personally started a build like that, with just 28 points, and on a F2P account. I do have a P2P account (with all slots full) and could pass a +1 frost sword and a +1 mithral chain for help, that's about all - and this character does indeed work very well even with the little equipment I have, she can deal with all traps and locks at level and even on elite difficulty (if I care to find a group for that). I found I can buff, emergency heal, be as good at traps as any rogue except for mechanics, and follow right on the heels of the bbns and monster builds concerning kills if I'm not busy dealing with traps. Sure, I'm probably dealing less damage than you at the lower levels because I had to start at 14 Str only, and I currently cannot afford to consistently use TWF at level 7, let alone power attack. But, it does work, on a F2P account, with close to zero outside help. Can you say the same of your build?

    CC:
    Fascinate *would* work very well if other group members wouldn't just hit everything in reach without thinking, but I found charm person sadly only works very rarely, and only on non-casters and non-ranger types, even though I started at 14 Cha, not just 11, and have eagle's splendor active most of the time when there's sth to charm in the quest. Judging by that experience I'd advise against single target CC spells at higher levels. Sound burst works well because it can hit a lot of targets when hitting a group and often will catch a few, in spite of the bad DC. But single target - beyond Charm Person and level 8 spells - that's a waste of time and SPs IMHO.

    Healing:
    Same goes for anything related to curing: Sure, you can pick up cure spells, and few of the lower tier enhancements, but on a warchanter build you simply don't have the feats, SP, or APs (for enhancements) to make your healing spells effective. I've switched from occasionally healing myself to just carry wands or stacks of healing pots. Way more efficient in both SPs and effective healing, and cannot be interrupted!

    DPS:
    Not going to discuss your weapon style here - you made it quite clear you don't want to change it. But: you should try to fit in Inspired Attack III ! Yes, it's only +1 to attack. and yes it's 6 friggin' APs to get - but still, it counts for the whole group, so +6 to attack in total, or +12 in a raid. This is huge! And: people inviting a bard for a raid, and speifically a wachanter, will expect at least that much dedication. You already forwent the +1/+1 bonus to Inspire Courage you'd get at bard level 20, so you'd better get any other bonus you can add to make up for that. This is not my personal advice actually, just the gist from what I've repeatedly read on the various threads mentioned above and elsewhere.

  8. #8
    Community Member Tuney's Avatar
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    For the most part , problems with to hit are a 'early-mid game problem' and 'epic' thing.

    Even Full Wiz/Sorc Melee Battle casters don't have that much problems hitting late in the game. If you wanted to maxmize as much of your AP as possable as to increase ones own survivaility/dps then tier 3 just like healer's friend 3 is a lot of AP to ask for.

    +2 tomes while yes rare , drop often enough in high level quests that they can be accounted for and 32 point builds are more often the norm build starting point.

    Greensteel is a factor I don't want to touch. And some raid loot is almost auto-passed to a bard you can count on getting it quickly.

    But the thing the OP is showing is what ENDING stats are like in IDEAL world where all the equipment they wanted was dropped and shows for it.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuney View Post
    But the thing the OP is showing is what ENDING stats are like in IDEAL world where all the equipment they wanted was dropped and shows for it.
    Simplified the OP a bit and included a 28 point version for beginning players. The build doesnt really need any tomes, and can perform admirably without any. However, tomes would obviously raise the level of play for this build, as it would most any build.

    I always liked builds that were well layed out, and easy to build and play for the majority of players. I see this build as achievable for both beginners and hardcore players.

    As for end-game gear, I haven't begun that process just yet...


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    Excellent new player build!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aschbart View Post
    There are several threads about similar warchanter combos, but usually going rogue instead of barbarian, and TWF instead of THF. Not that I want to convince you of such a build, just pointing out threads with similar ideas are there, have been thoroughly discussed, and came to some quite different conclusions.
    The builds you're talking about are optimized builds for top performance in endgame. This is more of a 'flavor' build for people content with such builds.

    The reason you see Rogue rather than Barbarian in TWF builds is because Rogue gives you more damage, Evasion, and skills - all of which tend to be far more useful than what you get from Barbarian. However, such a build only has a +15 BAB, so it isn't ideal for THF. To top out glancing blows and still get 2 levels of Rogue, you'd need to drop back to 12 levels of Bard.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    The builds you're talking about are optimized builds for top performance in endgame. This is more of a 'flavor' build for people content with such builds.

    The reason you see Rogue rather than Barbarian in TWF builds is because Rogue gives you more damage, Evasion, and skills - all of which tend to be far more useful than what you get from Barbarian. However, such a build only has a +15 BAB, so it isn't ideal for THF. To top out glancing blows and still get 2 levels of Rogue, you'd need to drop back to 12 levels of Bard.
    Flavor my butt. Going rogue does not guarantee more DPS than non-rogue. Going 16/2/2 will ensure you can hit in any circumstance. I've heard many TWF cry they cant connect on epic content. Not so with a properly outfitted Bard/Fighter/Barbarian. Since you need only focus on strength to affect your to hit and damage check this end game math (depending on a few pieces of high end gear of course)

    36 STR 18 + 2 tome + 1 litany + 1 human + 6 item + 3 exceptional + 5 levels
    +4 barbarian rage + 2 rage spell + 4 double madstone + 6 titan grip + 8 scourge + 2 yugo + 2 store = 36+28 = 64 STRENGTH

    28 CON
    17 + 2 tome + 1 litany + 1 human + 1 exceptional + 6 item (+2 insight)
    +4 barbarian rage + 2 rage spell + 8 double madstone + 8 scourge + 2 yugo + 2 store = 28+18 = 54 CONSTITUTION

    Naturally, this gear isnt easy to find (Titan's Grip and Scourge Choker). However they would work extremely well on a build like this and should be sought. Some of these buffs are temporary in nature, so learning HOW TO USE YOUR CLICKIES are very important. This build is specifically geared to hit ANYTHING in the game, at ANY level, and hit it HARD.

    This math is realistic and attainable, and anyone who tells you this isnt "end game math" just doesnt know what he/she is talking about.

    It's really tough to create a build that would work in the hands of a new player AND vet alike. I think this build would work as intended with ANY type of gear found... and would scale nicely as you found higher end gear.

    The idea of very short spurts of very high strength and con, when desired, gels perfectly well in boss fights... and is very fun and effective to play

    PS: For those new to the game, don't get too wrapped up in named/raid gear. Named drops and raid drops will come in time. Until that time comes, always look for the best DPS weapons you can find.. be it the House D vendor, Inspired Quarters vendor, Amrath vendor, or the auction house. Find a good guild, and guildies will help you acquire good gear.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 04-13-2010 at 10:50 PM.


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    This is an interesting build. Thank you for posting it. I'm going to try it in a PD guild and will keep you posted, if I remember and stay alive long enough, thanks again.

  14. #14
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    The builds you're talking about are optimized builds for top performance in endgame. This is more of a 'flavor' build for people content with such builds.

    The reason you see Rogue rather than Barbarian in TWF builds is because Rogue gives you more damage, Evasion, and skills - all of which tend to be far more useful than what you get from Barbarian. However, such a build only has a +15 BAB, so it isn't ideal for THF. To top out glancing blows and still get 2 levels of Rogue, you'd need to drop back to 12 levels of Bard.
    You are the same individual that said 2 or 3 months ago bards arnt viable in anything but high lvl content. You have also attempted to talk trash to some of the most capable players and character builders on the forums even though you dont even have a year in the game. I find it hard to take anything you saiy seriously.

    Rogue doesnt always give you more dps. You also wont top out glancing blows by only going 12 bard. BAB can be made up with divine power scrolls. You will have the umd to use them easily. This is a great new player build. And untill they break out tier2-3 bard pre's its what id go with. Unless you really feel you need evasion.

    Inspired attack3 just isnt worth it. Why pay 6ap for a+1 to hit. The payout just doesnt do it for the ap cost.

    Great build as always Les.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Great build as always Les.
    Thank you!


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    Community Member valorik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post

    Inspired attack3 just isnt worth it. Why pay 6ap for a+1 to hit. The payout just doesnt do it for the ap cost.
    Disagree.

    In epic content that's the same as a 5% dps increase for most characters.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Cool build, Les.

    I helped a friend build one just like this, except we went TWF instead THF. He loves the build...one of his favorites.

    Nice work.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by valorik View Post
    Disagree.

    In epic content that's the same as a 5% dps increase for most characters.
    Yeah, I'm still pondering Inspired Attack III. It is very expensive though and just not an absolute necessity leading up to the Shroud. By then, I am sure I would have made up my mind on whether Im taking it, and what I'll give up if I do.

    There is absolutely no question it would help others hit in epic quests.

    Any ideas Valorik?


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  19. #19
    Community Member valorik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Yeah, I'm still pondering Inspired Attack III. It is very expensive though and just not an absolute necessity leading up to the Shroud. By then, I am sure I would have made up my mind on whether Im taking it, and what I'll give up if I do.

    There is absolutely no question it would help others hit in epic quests.

    Any ideas Valorik?
    I'd personally drop the 3rd and 4th tier of human vesatility, honestly the only thing I can see you needing them for is if your shroud item happens to be off and you need a boost to be no-fail, or for large haggle transactions.

    There isn't currently much use for 47 over 45 intim, and the damage boost is very weak in the first place; though it's nice to use that summon monster 9 scroll you just looted.

    I also reccomend glitterdust over heroism, just for pulling initial aggro off ceartain enemies (such as xyzzy or the tod shadows[extra speed and scrolled fireshield fire could make an excellent kiter out of this build]), though it's a minor point.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by valorik View Post
    I'd personally drop the 3rd and 4th tier of human vesatility, honestly the only thing I can see you needing them for is if your shroud item happens to be off and you need a boost to be no-fail, or for large haggle transactions.

    There isn't currently much use for 47 over 45 intim, and the damage boost is very weak in the first place; though it's nice to use that summon monster 9 scroll you just looted.

    I also reccomend glitterdust over heroism, just for pulling initial aggro off ceartain enemies (such as xyzzy or the tod shadows[extra speed and scrolled fireshield fire could make an excellent kiter out of this build]), though it's a minor point.
    Great points, and thank you Valorik for taking the time. The nice thing about HV III & IV is that attack boost and of course the boost to UMD. I never even thought of replacing HV. Usually that's off limits but you are right, those are expendable and shouldnt change much of anything else. Will work some math and think this one out. I must say I like your suggestion so far.

    Glitterdust. I'm actually ahead of you on that one I have Glitterdust already slated to replace Heroism once I grab Good Hope. Glitterdust is underused (like it always was). Very nice low level CC that can work much later in game as well.

    As for haggle, well, I know this Cajun lady.... called the Mississippee Queen....
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 04-14-2010 at 12:49 AM.


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