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  1. #1
    Community Member Tormaz's Avatar
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    Default AA & the Capstone

    Is the Capstone a big buff for the AA?
    If I wanted to multiclass a AA with something like Fighter/Rogue would it be a big damage reduction?

  2. #2
    Community Member Gladiator_206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tormaz View Post
    Is the Capstone a big buff for the AA?
    If I wanted to multiclass a AA with something like Fighter/Rogue would it be a big damage reduction?
    losing 25% attack rate would allways be a reduction in dps...
    Capstone is very nice for AA, but they are still underpowered unfortunatly.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

  3. #3
    Community Member Sweyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator_206 View Post
    losing 25% attack rate would allways be a reduction in dps...
    Capstone is very nice for AA, but they are still underpowered unfortunatly.
    The capstone actually gives 10-12%, it says 25 but testing it begs to differ...

    To OP, ranged combat is already lame, anything to make you shoot faster would help, go pure
    Khyber
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  4. #4
    Community Member Gladiator_206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    The capstone actually gives 10-12%, it says 25 but testing it begs to differ...

    To OP, ranged combat is already lame, anything to make you shoot faster would help, go pure
    only 10-12% !?! this must be changed...thats bull.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Whooops. We clearly were out of line with several of these ingredients. Including items like Dreamspitter and Chattering Ring is an embarrasing error on our part and was in no way intentional.

  5. #5
    Community Member Tormaz's Avatar
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    My brother is starting up DDO and liked the Exploiter build but wanted to know if you could do that with AA instead of tempest. So I figured this was the best place to ask.

    He isn't too worried about DPS being underpowered, he just wants to play a AA and liked the way the Exploiter looked in terms of having rogue skills and the monk AC bonus incase he need to go into melee combat.

  6. #6
    Community Member Sweyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tormaz View Post
    My brother is starting up DDO and liked the Exploiter build but wanted to know if you could do that with AA instead of tempest. So I figured this was the best place to ask.

    He isn't too worried about DPS being underpowered, he just wants to play a AA and liked the way the Exploiter looked in terms of having rogue skills and the monk AC bonus incase he need to go into melee combat.
    Yeah, it will work. You'd have to change up some stats and feats, but the concept of high ac, rogue skills, ect, should work with ranged
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  7. #7
    Community Member Tormaz's Avatar
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    I appreciate the quick replies.

    He is one of those people who will play something that might not be great in hopes that it will be fixed at a later date.

  8. #8
    Community Member xtchizobr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tormaz View Post
    I appreciate the quick replies.

    He is one of those people who will play something that might not be great in hopes that it will be fixed at a later date.
    anything can be "great" if it's a self sufficient character playing in casual/normal difficulties...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDjinnFor View Post
    Removing things always hurts people, unless it hurt putting it in to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDjinnFor View Post
    There was one in his left hand but he's throwing it away. It's a crossbow after all.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    The capstone actually gives 10-12%, it says 25 but testing it begs to differ...

    To OP, ranged combat is already lame, anything to make you shoot faster would help, go pure
    I measured it myself by timing 400 arrow shots. The capstone gave me 10-12% just like you say.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator_206 View Post
    losing 25% attack rate would allways be a reduction in dps...
    Capstone is very nice for AA, but they are still underpowered unfortunatly.
    I would say less DPS than melee for sure. My 20 ranger AA's melee dps was far better than my ranged during non-manyshot. But sure nice for epic DQ!

  11. #11
    Community Member lyeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logic View Post
    I measured it myself by timing 400 arrow shots. The capstone gave me 10-12% just like you say.
    Quick question: Was this with or without the boost from the arcane archer ToD set?

  12. #12
    Community Member Tormaz's Avatar
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    Another Question here...

    Tonight we had a pretty interesting conversation. We were talking about AA rangers and how people who play them need to realize that you are going to melee a good bit. Then the conversation turned to AA Ranger melee dps and there were a lot of opinions but most seemed to agree that AA Rangers can do fine in melee combat. Of course they won't be on par with a Tempest, but they can hold their own.

    Does that seem like a fair assessment?

  13. #13
    Community Member ForwardWu's Avatar
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    if your AA have a main stat on str and put lv up pts into str, and also taken power attack, the difference between the melee ability of AA and tempest is not very large. Probably around 20% due to the speed boosted by tempest 1 and extra attack from tempest 3. However, if your AA is a pure without split of rogue/fighter, there will be another difference due to haste boost of tempest as most tempest build has a lv or rogue or fighter.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tormaz View Post
    We were talking about AA rangers and how people who play them need to realize that you are going to melee a good bit. Then the conversation turned to AA Ranger melee dps and there were a lot of opinions but most seemed to agree that AA Rangers can do fine in melee combat. Of course they won't be on par with a Tempest, but they can hold their own.

    Does that seem like a fair assessment?
    My arcane archer uses ranged most of the time. The thing you need to realize is that there are gaps between combat and any time you're not in range you can shoot a bow (let someone else get aggro first though so it doesn't just run past them at you) and if you use your many shot when it's available you'll be able to use it a lot. Considering the time you'll be traveling between combat encounters lets you judge your use of many shot.

    In extended sequences melee becomes more important. For instance if you're killing the Epic Dragon, or Sally, or Harry, or whatever else that has a metric butt load of HP. In that event your melee dps isn't close to on par with Strength based melee characters (the monster for instance) but you'll compare well with finesse characters even without the 10% attack speed boost, even a tempest with the same STR will only have 10% more DPS.

    This is all assuming you didn't build a DEX based AA for some reason.

    PS. I think the number one failing of most archers is their inability to use improved precise shot. You may fire much slower than a Tempest swings but if you're hitting 3 guys at the same time you're doing fairly well. Depending on the content you're playing you can easily fill alternate roles with ranged as well with the use of improved precise shot. In the Gianthold level range you can lock down an entire hallway of monsters using Paralyzing before they even reach the party then continue to hit them all so they don't break. In Epic content I have very good luck using an Earthgrab bow with Many Shot and Improved Precise. In the span of one Many Shot I'll generally see at least 2-3 monsters (upward of 4-5 in the right places) get Earthgrabbed and insta-critted to death by the group.
    Last edited by Maldavenous; 03-31-2010 at 03:30 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyeman View Post
    Quick question: Was this with or without the boost from the arcane archer ToD set?
    This testing was done w/o ToD set.

    with 19 BAB I timed 100 arrows, then 100 arrows again
    then with 20BAB and capstone I timed 100 arrows, then 100 arrows again

    Yeah I know I shoulda timed 20 BAB for both...

    The 20 ranger capstone ranged alacrity increase was 10-12%, I can get the exact numbers next time I get in game.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldavenous View Post
    My arcane archer uses ranged most of the time. The thing you need to realize is that there are gaps between combat and any time you're not in range you can shoot a bow (let someone else get aggro first though so it doesn't just run past them at you) and if you use your many shot when it's available you'll be able to use it a lot. Considering the time you'll be traveling between combat encounters lets you judge your use of many shot.

    In extended sequences melee becomes more important. For instance if you're killing the Epic Dragon, or Sally, or Harry, or whatever else that has a metric butt load of HP. In that event your melee dps isn't close to on par with Strength based melee characters (the monster for instance) but you'll compare well with finesse characters even without the 10% attack speed boost, even a tempest with the same STR will only have 10% more DPS.

    This is all assuming you didn't build a DEX based AA for some reason.

    PS. I think the number one failing of most archers is their inability to use improved precise shot. You may fire much slower than a Tempest swings but if you're hitting 3 guys at the same time you're doing fairly well. Depending on the content you're playing you can easily fill alternate roles with ranged as well with the use of improved precise shot. In the Gianthold level range you can lock down an entire hallway of monsters using Paralyzing before they even reach the party then continue to hit them all so they don't break. In Epic content I have very good luck using an Earthgrab bow with Many Shot and Improved Precise. In the span of one Many Shot I'll generally see at least 2-3 monsters (upward of 4-5 in the right places) get Earthgrabbed and insta-critted to death by the group.
    Yeah I agree with everything this guy says.

    And yeah you melee a lot as an AA, at least I did. So its probably worth picking up IC melee unless you got 2x mineral II's.

  17. #17
    Community Member Diib's Avatar
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    Seriously, if you want to max damage on an aa go elf fighter 18/2 any caster. Take kensai III in longbow, pick up bonuses to hit and damage with longbows out of elf as well, and max aa enhancements.

    Edit - not only are you getting all the kensai/elf bonuses to longbows, you can take every archery feat AND still pick up wep spec and greater weapon spec in longbows.
    Last edited by Diib; 03-31-2010 at 04:37 AM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Sweyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diib View Post
    Seriously, if you want to max damage on an aa go elf fighter 18/2 any caster. Take kensai III in longbow, pick up bonuses to hit and damage with longbows out of elf as well, and max aa enhancements.

    Edit - not only are you getting all the kensai/elf bonuses to longbows, you can take every archery feat AND still pick up wep spec and greater weapon spec in longbows.
    - You do not get Manyshot
    - You do not get Improve Presice Shot
    - You do not get the extra 10-12% from capstone....

    I'm sorry, there is a reason why the ranger symbol is a bow, and the fighter a sword.
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  19. #19
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    - You do not get Manyshot
    - You do not get Improve Presice Shot
    - You do not get the extra 10-12% from capstone....

    I'm sorry, there is a reason why the ranger symbol is a bow, and the fighter a sword.
    You can grab all those feats because fighters have TONS.
    you get enough 30% haste boosts to cover every manyshot you'd use between rests.

  20. #20
    Community Member Kadran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    - You do not get Manyshot
    - You do not get Improve Presice Shot
    - You do not get the extra 10-12% from capstone....

    I'm sorry, there is a reason why the ranger symbol is a bow, and the fighter a sword.
    - Manyshot is now a selectable feat. Last I checked, Fighters have tons of those.
    - Improved Precise Shot is a selectable feat. Last I checked, Fighters have tons of those.
    - You would not get the ranger capstone, but you do get a higher STR, and weapon focus and specialization plus fighter Haste boost.

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