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  1. #21
    Community Member lolwatboomer's Avatar
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    I love triple earth... being able to use CL16 earth eles at 11 is pretty awesome, and couple that with earthgrab - autocrits galore!

    Earthgrab is so much more entertaining!
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  2. #22
    Community Member Belwaar's Avatar
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    I love my Triple Pos bow on my TR'd Ranger...combine that with silver arrows and it all dies fairly quick

    But...I also dual wield an Earthgrab Scimmy and a Lightning Strike Scimmy, so I have the best of both worlds
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  3. #23
    Community Member Wyrmnax's Avatar
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    If its for the damage, drop the Triple Positive completely.

    The Silver bow does almost exactly the same damage as the triple pos, but doesnt cost you a shard. Please take note that the Silver bow has double the crit range than standard longbows.

    So the real question should be triple earth or lightning II
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  4. #24
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrmnax View Post
    So the real question should be triple earth or lightning II
    Both (Lightning II first)

  5. #25

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    If your gonna go with one of the two you mentioned Id do an earthgrab bow if only for the reason that it will become very useful again once you get to epic. For dr breaking purposes just use Silver longbow untill you can get a lightning II. You wont have a weighted option with a bow so this will give you your best shot at auto crits. Lightning II bow is very nice and actually beats out the epic thornlord on mobs not resistant to lightning.
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  6. #26
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Does Lightning II actually beat out the Epic Thornlord? 2d8+10 17-20/x (add Good to bypass DR) looks like it'd be more than 1d10+5+2d6+1d6 (+burst of 2d10)+blast+strike 19-20/x3, but I'm kind of poor at DPS calculations.
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  7. #27

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    These are the numbers for my halfling AA that i posted on our guild forums. The numbers do vary a bit depending on build. Higher strength builds will even the gap a bit as does bard buffs.
    The biggest difference is the thornlord cant compensate for the ~18 dmg/shot that lighning strike gives.



    All these are self buffed only not considering bard buffs/prayer/etc...


    Lightning II bow w/ slayer arrows imbued: Non-Crit 1d10+5+8 str+2 rams+1point blank+10favored+4 favored enhancement+16 Sneak attack+2d6 holy+1d6 shocking burst=50-74.
    On crit 19: (1d10+5+8 str+2rams+1pointblank+10favored+4favored enhancemnt+4 seeker)x3+16sneak +2d6 holy+1d6 shock+2d10burst+2d10blast=128-206
    On nat 20: (1d10+5+8str+2rams+1point blank+10favored+4 favored enh+4 seeker)x3+16 sneak+2d6 holy + 1d6 shock +2d10 burst+2d10 blast+4d6 blasttwenty+500 slayer=632-730

    Plus ~3% hits will also trigger lightning strike for another ~600dmg

    Epic Thornlord with good in red slot: Non Crit 2d8+6+4+8str+2rams+1pointblank+10favored+4favored enh+16 sneak attack=53-67
    On crit 17-19: (2d8+4+6+8str+2rams+1point blank+10favored+4favored enh+4seeker)X3+16 sneak=139-181
    On crit 20: (2d8+4+6+8str+2rams+1pointblank+10favored+4favored enh+4seeker)x3+16sneak+500slayer=639-681

    So lightning 2 has damage in the range .85(50-74)+.05(128-206)+.05(632-730)+~18per hit lightning strike=98.5-127.7 for an average of 113.1/shot with hits on 2 or above

    Thornlord has an average shot in the range .75(53-67)+.15(139-181)+.05(639-681)=92.55-111.45 for an average of 102 per shot with hits on 2 or above.

    Shocking I thought the thornlord would come out on top here. Granted additional buffs that increase base dmg before crits like bard buffs/rage and such will slant this more in favor of the thornlord due to the higher crit range. Also thornlord gets dramatically better as ac increases due to a higher percentage of its hits being crits. But fortified mobs will be more in favor of the lightning strike. Either bow would be nice to have I just think this means I won't grind as hard for the thornlord though as the lightning strike is much easier to get. However the thornlord will come out much higher on DQ and stormreaver due to lightning immunities. And the Thornlord will possibly see some upgrades with the retooling of desert epics. .
    Last edited by LeLoric; 03-24-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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  8. #28

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    For an idea on how much additional base damage affects the comparisons 5 additional damage will calculate as follows.

    Lit II: .85*5+.1*15=5.75 additional dmg per shot

    Epic Thornlord: .75*5+.2*15=6.75

    So 5 additional base damage amounts to 1 average damage per shot difference between the two bows. This increases linearly so an additional 5 base damage is still only 1 average damage per shot. Since there is an 11 point difference on the bows on my calculations it would require an additional 55 points of base damage for the thornlord to overtake the lit II. Only lightning resistant/immune mobs would make the thornlord a more damaging bow which is why when eladrin looks over the epic desert items i hope this is one he takes a look at.
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  9. #29
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrmnax View Post
    If its for the damage, drop the Triple Positive completely.

    The Silver bow does almost exactly the same damage as the triple pos, but doesnt cost you a shard. Please take note that the Silver bow has double the crit range than standard longbows.

    So the real question should be triple earth or lightning II
    I did the numbers some time ago and found the Silver Bow to be behind my +5 Holy of Righteousness bow by quite a fair bit (on my Str-based tempest that situationally used a bow). That is because during Manyshot, you *cannot* rely on hitting on a 2, and the +7 to-hit on the Holy/Righteousness bow was far better than the +3 on the Silver Bow (+3 comes from Deneith arrows) and this was a bigger factor than the crits.

    I'd make a Lightning 1 bow (Holy, Shocking Burst) and use it until you can upgrade to Lightning 2. Double positive is better than Lightning 1, but Lit 2 is so far ahead of triple positive it's not funny.
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  10. #30
    Community Member Turial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    ... That is because during Manyshot, you *cannot* rely on hitting on a 2.....
    Why is that any different during manyshot?
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  11. #31
    Community Member hydra_ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Does Lightning II actually beat out the Epic Thornlord? 2d8+10 17-20/x (add Good to bypass DR) looks like it'd be more than 1d10+5+2d6+1d6 (+burst of 2d10)+blast+strike 19-20/x3, but I'm kind of poor at DPS calculations.
    On my home-made (reasonably accurate, as far as I can tell) DPS calc, the lightning II comes ahead by a large margin, which only increase as fortification increases as well.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    the "Blast" aspects only happen on 20s.
    Incorrect - Blast crits and does additional damage on Vorpal.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turial View Post
    Why is that any different during manyshot?
    I think arrows take a to hit penalty during manyshot. Its like -2 to hit per arrow IIRC. Like -0, -2, -4, -6. So -6 on the 4th arrow I believe

  14. #34
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turial View Post
    Why is that any different during manyshot?
    -8 to hit for firing 4 arrows at once.
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  15. #35
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    -8 to hit for firing 4 arrows at once.
    Not in DDO as far as I'm aware.
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  16. #36
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greydeath View Post
    Incorrect - Blast crits and does additional damage on Vorpal.
    That's what MM said...on 20s.
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